 Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE at the HP Vertica Big Data Conference, 2014. Brought to you by HP with your hosts, John Furrier and Dave Vellante. Okay, welcome back everyone. We are here live inside theCUBE. This is our flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the seal of the noise. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante and Jeff Kelly, wrapping up day two closed to the HP Vertica or the HP Big Data 2014 event. Vertica, Autonomy was here, all their partners, basically their ecosystem, their customers, which also includes developers. And we had a great, great day. This morning we started with the keynote, Dave Vellante and I, headlined the keynote this morning and really kind of broke down a CUBE interview, broke down the trends and big data, followed later by a keynote by Tom Davenport, Babson Professor, author, and really a great day and big data. So I got to just summarize by saying, Dave and Jeff, we did a good job, I thought, on stage. Jeff Kelly produced some research, new research on the big data survey that he has that he's been updating with some amazing new insights. Let's get right to it. Couple key things that came up, Dave, one was born in big data, or as you say, born in data-driven. We're doing a survey, that's our original idea. Which one do you like better? Born in big data or born data-driven? So we're going to have that little survey and crowd chat and have a little vote, democratization. One of many discussions I was to talk about here, really this is a culture shift where, I didn't see a lot of developer action here, so HP was hoping to have ecosystem partners, customers and developers, but in a way the customers are the developers. That seems to be the vibe, the Ferrari for big data, what's your take on born in big data, born data-driven? So I think there's definitely, as I said this morning, a bifurcation in the customer base, where you've got born big data or born data-driven, and you've got the guys that have a really complex application portfolio that are trying to take little data and big data and unstructured data and structured data to get more value out of it. Tom Devenport gave a list of, it was UPS, it was Procter and Gamble, it was GE, it was Fidelity, on and on and on and on. All the companies he's consulting with and doing research with. And I think that, to me there's a dissonance, Jeff and John. I feel as though either I'm missing something or the crowd here was missing something. I didn't sense that there was a sense of urgency to move to this new paradigm, except for the guys who are already there. And the guys who are already there, I believe, we talk about it all the time, big data practitioners are going to create more value than big data suppliers. I believe that the big data practitioners that are leading this data driven charge are going to gain market share. I think they're going to grow faster than the competition. I think they're going to disrupt existing businesses in retail, financial services, healthcare, you know, on and on and on. And I think that ultimately the fat middle that's slower to move is going to be forced to move because of economics, lack of competitive advantage, lack of speed, lack of agility. So either I'm way off base or that typical bell curve is vulnerable. Well, I would agree that there didn't seem to be a lot of urgency around that. You know, we were still very early in this market and we're still seeing even early adopters are still very early in their journey. What I think what'll happen is, you know, as those early adopters start to see some significant successes, they start to move from POCs into production and big data analytics projects starts to actually impact, you know, profit and loss. And you start to see a market share shift due to some practitioners leveraging data better than others. That will start to move the rest of the market. Fear can be quite a motivator when it comes to adopting new technologies and new approaches because as we've covered on theCUBE, numerous times, you know, most recently I think at the MIT event around the chief data officer, data governance, data quality event, you know, there's a huge change management aspect to this conversation. Big data is a lot more than just a set of technologies. There's the people and process issues that we talked about. And if you're not willing to adopt those and make some of the investments and change management that you need to to actually start leveraging data to its full effect, the technology is not going to do any good. So this is not an easy thing. It's not like flipping a switch and you can become a data-driven organization. It takes a lot of work and I think you're going to need some of these organizations, frankly, you're going to need a kick in the pants and part of it is going to be when they're getting passed by competitors who are doing it better than they are. I think data-driven is certainly a mindset but born in big data to me is the key and that is a cultural issue around how old you are. And if you're under 30, if you're over 30, you might not be the right person for the job in analytics and being successful. I'm not saying everyone over 30 might not be but I think there's an age discrimination thing, Dave, where are we too old, Dave, at our age to really be thinking differently and drive this new generation of analytics? I think our historical perspective is an advantage, frankly. Now, the fact that I don't know how to code in Python maybe is a disadvantage, but we've seen a lot of shifts, we've seen a lot of hype and I think over time you start to develop a framework as to what's BS and what's real. You get the BS sniff test and I think that in my view, this notion of data-driven is real but it's non-trivial. And so it was interesting to me, we go to the MIT conference the third week of July and I come out of there saying, wow, these organizations are data-driven, they're highly regulated for sure but they're driving around governance and big data, they get it, the CDO is going to emerge as a really powerful role in the organization and I come to the Big Data Vertica conference and one hand goes up when you see who's got a CDO, Chief Data Officer, it's media and entertainment, it's not even in a regulated industry. So there's a big dissonance, a big gap between this side of the world which says, yes, we've got to be data-driven, we've got to organize around governance and data quality and this side of the world is saying, just do it. Well, responding, John, to your point about, if you're over 30, you're kind of washed up in this big data world, I would say, to some degree maybe on the developer side, you want younger developers who understand the role data can play and have the skills that are required for that data scientist role but I would argue on the business side, I think it's less about developing in Python and it's more about understanding. So I'm going to get a lot of heat for this, okay, but here's my thinking, every tool for the job is a cliche, every hammer looks for a nail is a cliche but that's what people train in a mindset we'll get to. My point is, young kids in their 20s are blinded ambition, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, you name it, they all came in, Mark Zuckerberg, right? I mean, they have a very disruptive mindset, they see a vision and they're young enough, they power through with brute force, they don't have any baggage, they have a clean sheet of paper, so all I'm saying is there is a born in the big data mentality, that's a cultural issue where, I was talking to one of the HP guys here, his son's in high school coding Twitter data and to get into college, he basically used all the Twitter data, cross-checked with LinkedIn and said, here's the guys starting companies that are at a crunch base out of your college, you should hire me, and he's like, that's his admission essay, he wrote code, basically did some big data, that's the kind of disruption, Dave, that I'm talking about. Okay, but so that's a modern day version of us showing up, how did I get my job at IDG? I showed up on the fourth floor and I started knocking on doors, and I went in and somebody said, hey, this is like a smart guy, let's go introduce him, and then I was hired, right? Okay, so now. Young and fearless. Young and fearless, and stupid sometimes, but stupid and don't know it, and that is an advantage. Stupid and fearless sometimes. Steve Jobs said that, had we really known what we were trying to do, we might have been too scared to do it. That's exactly my point. So maybe it is a disadvantage, but I feel as though, again, lacking that young and fearless, historical perspective is an advantage. So born in the cloud, born in big data, born data driven, big trend, second thing we saw was the schism you brought up today, I thought was very relevant, the schism between IT and business. IT and business, a little disconnect, some people think they're doing great, some people are saying they're not doing great, business people think that's not successful, IT thinks they're doing great, so that's got to figure that out. Well, so it's just a comment on that. Businesses always thought IT sucks, right? I mean, that's nothing new. The question is, will two things change that? Will two megatrends change that? And maybe it's four megatrends, but will cloud, and what you heard at Phillips, outsourcing the infrastructure, consumption based services, and big data aligning with the business, no such thing as an IT project, it's a business project, will it change the dynamic of that schism between IT and business? It hasn't happened to date, but... Yeah, and I think that's something to watch carefully because I think it's, what do you optimize for? And I brought this question to one of the panelists earlier we had from Autonomy. Do you optimize for governance? Do you optimize for innovation and revenue? That comes down to the ROI shift, that's another one. So born in big data, the schism between what the real ROI is, second key point, Dave, was you brought up on stage during our keynote was the bubble. Where is the bubble in big data? What's going to happen? Will big data come go public this next year? That's a big theme. And is big data in a bubble or not? It's bubbly, wouldn't you say? I think we're in a bubble in a good way, but I think the real bubble is what big data is bubbling to. They're enabling storage bubble, flash storage, cloud bubble, that is definitely happening. I think that's because of what big data is offering. So that was very interesting discussion, certainly valuations are there, I do. Then we had the whole landscape discussion around the customers, United States Postal Service, being this modern legacy environment, trying to compete with the Amazons, the FedExes, and they're going to be a prototype to see how well they can use big data. And then of course we had Alan, Nance from Phillips, who was a very big surprise interview, I thought that was my favorite interview of the day. He was phenomenal, just showing this whole transformation global perspective. And I think every CIO, as you pointed out, Dave, should watch that interview. Yeah, so you saw my tweets there. So I guess, so I'm pretty convinced, John, that this is not a fad. Somebody said today, it might've been Davenport, we probably, or maybe it was Jeff Kelly, we probably won't be talking about big data 10 years from now, it will just be, I think maybe Chris Sellen too said the same thing about e-commerce. Although I'm not sure e-commerce was as transformative, I mean it certainly wasn't retail, but seems like big data cuts across all industries. So I feel pretty confident, just like I did when I should have bought Microsoft and Intel stock in 1990, that they were going to dominate the PC era. I feel as though data-driven organizations are going to define the future of business and competition. The challenge, of course, is picking those winners from the technology and services providers side of the equation, and trying to determine who the winners are going to be from a practitioner perspective is obviously a huge challenge, but as we've stated numerous times, it's the real value is going to be created by the practitioners. There will be some major, look there's going to be some IT vendors that are going to make a lot of money on this as well, but it's really going to be the practitioners that I think are going to drive the most value. Yeah, well, so the hard part from a standpoint of if you're a stock picker is you got to be kind of an inch deep and a mile wide if you're looking for practitioner value because you got to look at retail. Right. You got to understand companies like Wayfair and Etsy and at the same time, you got to understand guys in financial services and you really got to understand the value chain. That's hard to do. It's easier to say, because I can pick some winners. I'll tell you right now, I think Tableau is a winner. I think Splunk is a winner, even though it's not big data. I think ServiceNow is a winner just because when I talk to the customers, I talk to their management, I observe their business model, I look at their financials, I look at the exogenous trends and I say wow, perfect storm lining up for these companies. I think AWS is a winner and it's going to disrupt things. Now, that's sort of at the margin. In the fat middle, it's really confusing. You almost say, okay, who's the loser? Sometimes it's easier to pick those, yeah. Maybe, maybe not. I mean, I think that when you have companies like Oracle and IBM, maybe not so much HP, but certainly Oracle, IBM, EMC, VMware, Cisco with piles and piles and piles of cash who can make big moves on the chess board. That's the one thing about HP. HP can make a $50 million investment in Hortonworks, but HP's not in a position to acquire Hortonworks if it wanted to, yet. It's got to continue to pay down the debt. And Meg has said that we're not going to make any big acquisitions until we do that. So they're somewhat hamstrung until they can do that. But to me, that's critical for HP. That was a, it's almost a move, John. We talk a lot about HP and the software business. That move to invest in Hortonworks is almost like a, okay, we really can't consume. We can't absorb these companies inorganically, but we're going to make an investment so we have a seat at the table. What do you think? I mean, you used to work at HP. I'm sure you agree. It's not enough. We're the Code Air Office. I know the Hortonworks guys well. I mean, I would. Yeah, there's not enough software component in the Hortonworks. And the developer thing. What's your take? Okay, so here's my take. Knowing the Code Air guys from day one and how they've achieved their success and Code Air has been highly successful. Code Air had a liquidity event. They essentially went public with the Intel deal. You know, that essentially is the equivalent of what IPO's used to be. So in the old days, you'd go public, all the investors get their money out. Now then you have stock market deal with and you're scaling up and you're growing up and you're becoming a big, big durable business. That's always been Code Air's goal from day one. And the founders are awesome and they're a great company. But now with Sarbanes-Oxley's, it's so much regulation involved, short sellers. Being public is not necessarily a good thing. So I think this is their IPO moment. Certainly from a liquidity standpoint, the VC's got out, some of their stocks, some people got out 100%, employees cashed out. Great moment, everyone deserved it. Good job guys. Now build a company, get public with real revenue. That's their next milestone. Hortonworks came into the market second and I was going to say this on stage, I was very skeptical of Hortonworks when they first came out. Yes you were. I remember that. Like, I don't think this is going to work. They're coming in and of course I was a little bit of a cloud. That's because you were a Cloudera fanboy. I was a Cloudera fanboy in their office. At least you can admit it. But you know, I fell on my sword multiple times and these guys know that and they really were humble. They did not play nasty in the sandbox although there was some bad blood between Cloudera and Hortonworks. But they've turned me around. I'm a big fan of Hortonworks and I've been watching them as you know it at Hadoop Summit. This was a great move for HP, I'll tell you why. Even though they had MapR from a sales perspective and partnership by investing in Hortonworks, Martin Fink, the architect of Open Source wrote the book on Linux with their work at Red Hat. Eileen who I've interviewed OpenStack is on the Red Hat board. They're on the OpenStack board. Monty Taylor, great people at HP, engineers really investing in Open Source. This was a game-changing statement from Martin Fink and Meg Whitman saying we're going to use Open Source as a key enabler for the company. This is a strategic offensive maneuver at the same time to play a little bit of defense because the wind-tail relationships are now over from the old PC days. So Hortonworks relationship with Microsoft, this is now my speculation, plays beautifully into this. HP, Microsoft, Surface, new CEO, I mean you can almost connect the dots there Dave. This could be a game-changing move for HP to get that relationship with Hortonworks, get more distribution for Open Source at the same time give HP some source code to sprinkle into road map and products in the data center, cloud, other areas and build it into their industrial strength, global platform. That is interesting and I think that is a strategic reason why Hortonworks and why Martin Fink has a board seat. Yeah, that's good analysis. I also am intrigued by MapR. Where is MapR in all this? I wanted to bring that up too. And I've always liked MapR. When I first met John Schroeder I said, okay this guy's got balls, right? They said, you know what? We're not going to wait around. We're not going to play the open source kumbaya thing. Yeah, we use open source, but we are going hard after solving a problem that nobody is solving right now, making Hadoop more enterprise grade. We're going after that, which essentially is a niche. So at the time, what percent of the world needed that, but we're going to bet that over time more and more people will and we can race faster than the open source industry at large. Now, is that going to be the ultimate end game where they dominate, they're the dominant platform? Probably not, but are they going to create value and be a really interesting acquisition candidate? I think yes. Well, I think they sometimes get left out of the conversation with Claude Aaron Hortonworks and I think that's unfair. I mean, most of the customers I've talked to are really happy with MapR. They're executing. Now they're not as big as the other two, but they're executing in some really interesting environments. They just had a big funding round with Google capital leading the way. So I think that says something as well. They're making investments in cloud early out of the Hadoop vendors. They've made investments in Google's cloud, Amazon's cloud early. So they're setting the stage for that. And just a little anecdote, not necessarily that means a lot, but the big relationship between HP and Hortonworks got a lot of press. HP is a big MapR customer. They actually use MapR internally and I don't know if everybody knows that, but I think that says something. They do now. And it's, trust me, I double checked that we could publicly talk about that and in fact we can. So they are the enterprise grade Hadoop distribution right now. They have the challenges that you talked about as the open source community maybe catches up ads functionality that MapR was using as a differentiator. That is a challenge for them. That's part of the challenge of the business model. But they're capitalizing early. They're having a lot of success with their clients and financial services and retail. Look, I call this out at Hadoop Summit. MapR is successful. They are part of the big three. They are a player. They have their employee count and their customer count. You ask any company, this is where the meat on the bone comes into play, as I always say. Especially the company's going public. How many employees do you have and how many customers do you have? And then you look at the rounds of funding. You look at cost for sales. You can just see the numbers and you go, okay, it has closed $100 million just recently. But prior to closing $100 million around financing, they had hundreds of employees, 500 customers. That didn't come from a few tens of millions of funding. That came from pure traction. So to me, I think MapR actually has a viable business there. I think there's a lot of sustainability data. They don't get a lot of credit for that because people think that they're proprietary even though it's open source. But they work on the hard stuff, the data recovery, the backups, stuff that's important for enterprises. And I think that's always been there. I think it's long gone to NFS early, which nobody else had. And that's a... They saw the hard problem that no one gave them credit for because it was boring, right? The hard stuff in between the toes, details of enterprise deployments is boring, very profitable business. Security and snapshots, yeah, absolutely. That is not something to be laughed at. It's not sexy, it's not front page headline news. Oh, innovation, but it's hard. Well, but you remember when all the big enterprise whales started to get into this business, every single one of them, dating back to whenever it was EMC World in May of 2012, I want to say. May of 2011, when they did a deal, yeah, 2011, when they did the deal with, or I guess they had a deal with MapR, and then they went out on their own. They announced their own distribution, green plum distribution. They said, what did they say? We're going to make Hadoop Enterprise ready. And MapR was like, well, we're doing that. You know, we're ahead of you on that. And I think there's meat on that bone to use a John Furrier phrase. So competitive strategy, social media marketing came up. These are new grounds that we haven't really explored much with big data. You missed the interview with Yoko Yamagatsu, head of analytics at Zynga, with Cho-An Ho, engineering manager. What's Zynga doing? What was the key takeaway there? The thing about Zynga was, first of all, they were very awesome to come on theCUBE. And they came on and were very candid. Great ladies in tech, add them to our women in tech. Early Vertica customer, obviously. Early Vertica have been there for years. They built an end-to-end platform, and they standardize a data taxonomy early. Scheme is all set up standardized, and then now are portaling that analytics platform for every new game. So, the product managers drive the data modeling that feeds directly into the user experience. They also done some good growth hacking using the data. So, we brought up growth hacking and some cool stuff there. So, great. How's it working? Did it come up that they moved off of the Amazon cloud in-house? Did that come up at all? No, I didn't want to bring that up because we really wanted to keep the focus on the analytics side. I'm sure they probably would have not commented on it because they were a different department. Well, what's the, you guys have any scuttle about that? My information suggests that it's not worked out as well as they had hoped, that it's more complicated than they thought. And the whole Zynga team, this is my other info here, a little scoop of the cube. I'm going to get some scoop here. The whole Zynga team, the core of the Zynga team that moved out of the Amazon cloud into their own private cloud, has moved to Uber. And Uber's moving in the same direction, not Amazon, but they're moving off their public cloud or hosted cloud into on-premise. So anyway, that didn't come up. No, but this is exactly what CB was mentioning from Etsy. Everything's a hack until you hit your next fail point, right? So you're one fail away from being exposed as a hack. And the hack that lasts the longest becomes the deployment. Amazon, as we know, is great for startups, but at some point there's a deficiency in the diminishing return, Dave, of Amazon pricing with SLA. So to me, all the startups that were big hits, Twitter, Zynga, now Uber, have all taken that track. They've gone to Amazon, and CrowdChat will probably take that same path. We'll stay on Amazon until the point is we need on-prem. So this is the trend that everyone is doing. So the other thing I want to end on here is consumption-based infrastructure. That came up from Alan Ness. That's the term that I love. Consumption is a new, cool term. Consumption drives behavior. Consumption, whether you're a developer, end user, or whatever. Big data provides personalization and great preferences. So I think this is the new model, I think, consumption-based infrastructure for the apps. Well, I mean, I tweeted out sort of my rant. I mean, I think every CIO and every vendor wanting to sell to a CIO and big IT should watch that interview. Basically, what Phillip said is, you're not going to do business with us unless you sign up for our consumption-based model. And that consumption-based model is no upfront fees, no withdrawal fees, and we're paid by the drink. So we're not installing hardware, we're not installing software. We're basically buying everything from the cloud as a solution. Well, that is a huge change. Great two days here at Boston. We had the crowd chat up on the big stage. Kino today, yesterday, great interviews. We also had Cube alumni from Yammer back. I saw some folks out last night. Just great, great Peter Fishman data for dollars. We had all kinds of different two gaming companies on. Great job. Thanks for hosting, Jeff Kelly and with his report up on stage, Dave. Thanks so much this week. Great job. This is the Cube wrapping up here at HP Big Data Vertica as a conference. Big Data 2014 is the hashtag. CrowdChat.net slash HP Big Data 2014 is the transcript. This is the Cube signing out from Boston. Keep an eye out for us. VMworld coming up and go to siliconangle.tv to see all these videos up online. 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