 Daily Tech News show is powered by its audience not outside organizations to find out more head to daily tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech News for July 1983 from DTS headquarters in Greenville, Illinois. I'm Tom Merritt and from Sebastopol, California. I'm Sarah Lane. Oh Really, we're at the start over because we can't hear you Sarah I can hear no idea Can you hear me Tom Tom? So Tom's a got problems. Okay. Here we go. Tom. Can you hear us? Yes, now we can hear you Okay, you can hear me and you can hear me. Yep. Okay All right, here we go Hold on three two Daily Tech News show is powered by its audience not outside organizations to find out more head to daily tech news show comm slash support Screwed that up three two Daily Tech News show is powered by its audience not outside organizations to find out more head to daily tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech News for July 1983 from DTS headquarters in Greenville, Illinois. I'm Tom Merritt and from Sebastopol, California where I live I'm Sarah Lane From Etobicoke, Ontario. I'm Jen Cutter and of course joining us our producer Roger Chang Roger, thank you for joining us on this remote broadcast that we're doing. Yes, it's a rare sunny day here in the Bay Area. I Hope you're enjoying the cassettes that we mail out to everyone of the show where where we go through and Talk about all of the computing news Every month and this month is no exception July 1983 could not be a more exciting time to live in. Let's start with a few computer things. You should know Grolier electronic publishing has made the academic American Encyclopedia the first unabridged online encyclopedia Accessible from the Dow Jones news retrieval system or BRS Inc The encyclopedia is searchable by subject and Biographical name on BRS. You can also choose two words and check this the system will retrieve every sentence that contains both words Even if the words aren't next to each other It'll just look it'll know where a sentence is and find those two words Encyclopedia was tested in video techs in Columbus, Ohio So if you're lucky enough to live there you might have got to check that out It's scheduled to go live later this year on Viewtron as well a video tech service in southern Florida Grolier plans to make a video disc edition of the encyclopedia available with announcements coming later this summer on that I have to say the idea of being able to look up anything in an encyclopedia is Exciting enough on its own in an online system, but these search capabilities are pretty impressive I just wonder what it's going to do to everybody's encyclopedia boot cases that we all have I mean right this would be nice if I hadn't invested in my 400 pound encyclopedia that takes up the entire wall of my living room But now that I have do I really need this free up living room space, right? I can think of more than a few libraries that might be interested in this because they are clearing some space To make room at the main library in San Francisco For a new San Francisco only collection Which means that they're gonna have to toss out a lot of books and if you can you can save space by using an online Encyclopedia, I think that would be pretty keen You know Jen I don't know what the the retrieval fees are for something like Dow Jones or BRS in Canada, but Might be worth it, right? I'm more interested in the video disc release because this way like you're saving Shaving space. You don't have all that bookshelf and you've got it right at your fingertips. You use your own system Oh, that's true. I mean it's even somewhat portable then right you could you could take the video disc with you a long as someone else has a video disc player on the other end attached to a micro computer and and then carry an Encyclopedia around In a way that that one that's on Sarah's bookshelves can't be carried around But the total game changer changer for universities for students for people like me you like to read And the search capabilities just blow me away I mean the yeah The fact that the two words don't have to be in any particular order You just have to know that whatever you're searching for might contain these two terms and it just pull it up automatically feels pretty magical Yeah, that's a smart little bad for the librarians here because I'm one of those people that hit them up when I need to cross-reference You know subject matter like whales or something and well That's that's something to consider. You know the downside to any technology like this is the loss of jobs We may not see librarians or libraries by the 90s I Mean that we're gonna have to have a transition plan for people who work in those those areas Or just imagine what libraries are going to look like in the 90s I mean do you just walk into a big structure and people sit at computers and look for things? Yeah, that's what I think you'd have something like a TRS 80 or an IBM PC You know several of them available hooked up to these video disc players Maybe with with some kind of network connectivity that you would pay for perhaps In order to access information, but you only need one or two people to monitor something like that Quick question. How many of you would really miss the Dewey decimal system? Oh, please. Yeah, I mean, it's belongs in a museum literally Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm just a kid. It's never made much sense to me. Anyway, bring on the tech Tom it's funny that you mentioned the TRS 80 because according to Byte magazine Radio Shack has unveiled the TRS 80 model for so this new machine features a built-in 12 inch monochrome 80 column display 70 key typewriter like keyboard with a 12 key numeric keypad as well for megahertz Z80 a microprocessor 64 kilobytes of memory that it could be expanded to 128 Rrs 232 c serial port to 184k byte floppy disk drives. It's got a lot of stuff here Model 4 is compatible with all model 3 software including OS is like C CPM plus L DOS TRS DOS although Radio Shack is planning writing new software to take advantage of the monitor's 80 column mode Like a spreadsheet calculator and a word processor the model 4 will retail for $1,999 that's reasonable. Yeah, that's that's cheap. I mean, I was I was scoping out an Apple too Complete with its own RGB monitor and disk drives and I was looking at something well over $3,000. I mean $2,000 for a computer with disk drives and a monitor. That's that's that's pretty competitive Well, and even if you have to pay a little extra you can expand it to 128 kilobytes It's got the standard rs 232 serial port and Backward compatibility. That's huge if you've got a model 3 right now. You don't want to have to buy all new software Although I do like the idea of taking advantage of 80 column mode You know you I do run into that a lot, especially if I'm using a computer like a TI 99 hooked up to a television well, you know, I'm gonna say this and it might be seem kind of out of left field but Thank God they included the numeric keypad I mean, I'm really really annoyed that you're gonna have to spend out of pocket jam Yeah, Apple too doesn't come with a numeric keypad. You got to spend extra Yeah, I mean the only ones that really do are like the high-end business machines like an IBM PC And I mean God knows I don't have $4,000 sent around to buy one of those Now I know I you know I have a reputation as being a little bit of an Apple to fan because that's where I learned to program basic But the TRS 80 has made a lot of progress and I think the model 4 shows that Jen. Do you have a dog in this fight? I'm interested in the 80 column thing. Is it gonna stretch some of my model 3 stuff like are the games gonna look okay? Is it gonna be warped? Well, so this is the great thing about TSR 80, especially the model 3 even TRS 80 I mean all the games are text-based. So info com Some of the stuff from Broderbund. I mean, it's all text-based. So I mean, it's like typing on a Hercules monochrome monitor I mean, it's gonna be sharp. It's gonna be text and it's gonna look nice I just think with the you know that the fact that Radio Shack is is sewing Computers that are so affordable with such great specs. What do how long Radio Shack will call itself a radio Yeah, when is it gonna be computer now? Yeah, it seems like it computer shack is probably the next best Idea it really is becoming that like I'm gonna say this right now Radio Shack will be a major competitor in the home computers home computing space And then in for at least the next 10 15 I think it becomes your destination I mean it it is the place no disrespect to your local computer hobby shop, right or your local computer guy Those are going to continue to survive but Radio Shack fills a niche in a lot of places like Greenville You know the wind will the wind hobby shop is our Radio Shack. They're all one and the same. It is the local guy There and I think that's the beauty of Radio Shack. I do see it getting bigger and bigger I don't know if we'll see like mall size stores like a JC Penney or anything But but I do I do think the future is bright because Radio Shack is willing to pivot into this without abandoning the base You could still get your resistors in your ham radio supplies. I mean, they're they're in a very competitive spot They're not a department store where you get your attires you get your Commodores in the electronics section But they're also not the specialized computer store So they have both kind of a retail space that allows them to sell a lot of plain stuff But also computers and I think it puts them in a very good position Now I know we get a lot of complaints that you know you guys talk about Radio Shack Radio Shack Radio Shack, but one of the reasons we do is because They are doing so much in this space that we all love in the latest issue of compute The Fort Worth based company has introduced a new portable computer that fits on your lap Talk about carrying the video disc and carry a whole computer around with you. It's the TRS-80 model 100 measuring at two inches thick 11 and 7 eighth inches wide and eight and a half inches long weighing four pounds has a built-in liquid crystal display that is 40 characters wide and eight lines deep featuring a full-size typewriter keyboard Model 100 uses four triple AA batteries, which can power the machine for around 20 hours You get a whole day's work out of this thing. No problem. You could also use an AC adapter and plug it in It's got built-in nickel cadmium batteries that keep data in the memory for up to 30 days when the model 100 is turned off 8k RAM model sells for $800 and the 24k RAM version for $1,000 and either of those can be expanded to 32k Which is huge I'm gonna say this now this Device will become the must-have for any journalist Worth their salt because I mean whether you're covering a local crime scene You're doing the local newsbeat or you're traveling halfway across the world to cover, you know a peace summit You're gonna want one of these. I mean think about it. You get rid of your notepad. You can type your stories on the machine Four pounds. I mean come on. That's like that's like two pieces of paper Yeah, I mean unless you're you're actually on the move. I don't know how many people are really gonna put a laptop on their lap Or computer rather But I like that. I like what you just came up with the laptop. That's a great name. Well, yeah, right, right It's it's it's you know, that's I think what they mean is hey, it's small enough to fit on your lap I mean most people still are going to put their computers on the desk I mean, but then but you're right this this portable computer different than the compacts we've seen It's literally could fit on your lap. That's amazing. I mean, you know, if you I like the term briefcase computer But because you know, I'm sticking this in my briefcase. I'm sure this my meetings I'm taking notes on it and you know what between between the you know Between my lunches or not my lunches between my meetings in my lunch break I can do a simple thing like type up type up, you know a draft of my story and then it Saves it when it's off This is amazing. I don't need a drive to store the text I just typed in and it takes four double-a batteries. I mean the future this granted battery life is nothing compared to a flashlight But considering what what more you can do on this Plus at four pounds. You're right. It's this is not luggable. This is portable. That's a big difference Oh, my grandfather works at U of T and would love one of these He could be in his office during the day with this computer And then take it home and still use it at night and I can steal it from him You could it's only four pounds Take to get in your backpack and make off of it Moving on children's computer workshop a new division of children's television workshop announced new educational programs for the Radio Shack Color computer and Atari 2600 VCS with more systems to follow These games feature Sesame Street characters like Cookie Monster, Ernie and Grover Well aiming to increase math and reading readiness skills Atari and children's computer workshop also introduced a new Atari kids Controller to make playing more accessible to young children without requiring a full keyboard This is amazing and again it points points to the future where you know My parents have always been worried about you know, the kids spending too much time watching TV And and and I think this shows that hey, you know what you you can take what they've tried to do with children's television Workshop put it on a micro computer and and suddenly all those concerns evaporate now You've got something that is directly educational and the child can participate in they're not just sitting there passively Staring at the screen themselves. Well, and if you know again It makes it makes good point that if we have a kid's controller that takes the pressure off a child to know how to type or You know understand how you know depending on the age our words are even spelled that sort of thing I think that would hinder a lot of kids Being plonked down in front of a computer to do something different than watch TV, but but be a little overwhelmed. I Think we're coming into possibly a new age of education And we're education in software meat. I mean we have sticky bear just came out of the market helping kids to read You have Broder Bund coming out with a suite of Software that allows kids to learn things like geography There's one could some called the where in the world is Carmen San Diego So you can can learn about different capitals around the world. I mean, it's great I mean, I think this is what we anticipated when we talk about Technology and education coming together that this could be a fantastic thing Learning without knowing that you're learning Right and and and like you said sticky bear is huge Everyone's worried that you know kids are gonna play things like jump man and donkey Kong on the computer This shows that that's that's not all that it's good for for kids. So I think this is a positive Positive move forward especially for the younger kids Yeah, like Ernie's magic shapes you get Ernie everybody loves Ernie He's got a magician's hat and you just kind of use the controller or the kids one to point at what he's asking you to look for You get to read you get to play with shapes. You've got music It's like you're working with your Sesame Street pals and I know I'm looking ahead a bit, but it makes me wonder what kinds of Children's programming will be offered, you know, is the TV Going the way of the dodo sooner than later because kids will all be on computers With it, you know, it's just sort of a different non video type format. Yeah, no You need you need the TV to hook the Atari 2600 up to that's it. That's all you need it for That's a bold prediction Tom. I think it's a very but I can totally see it. I can see it I you know, I do get that some people are worried like wait a minute If I buy the Atari 2600 is my kid gonna just play Donkey Kong on it And I think that's always going to be a problem with with new technology. It has to be supervised Parents have to take part and encourage kids but with with this kind of Educational software out there more and more. I think it's I think it's great Shelly Heller and Judith axler Turner of Popular computing magazine note that Los Angeles programmer Steve grumat has rewritten The 1960s area era computer conversation program Eliza in basic Can you imagine this thing needed a mainframe from MIT in the 60s now? He can write it in basic his company artificial intelligence research group is selling it for $25 or If you pay an extra 20 bucks pay $45 you get the unprotected source code that you can then customize yourself It works on the Apple 2 2e and the 2 works on the IBM PC the Osborne 1 and other CPM based computers There's also a version of Eliza called Terry Who even starts by saying he's filling in for Eliza? Terry works on the Atari 400 and 800 as long as you have that 32k Ram It's $16 so it's quite a bit cheaper and there's a version called abuse Which insults you if you insult it And that was actually the most expensive or not the most expensive, but it was more expensive than Terry It's 20 bucks works on Apple 2 2e needs 48k Ram for all that abuse And also works on the Atari 400 and 800 with 40k Ram You know I this really kind of underscores how powerful computers are today and to have these programs at home on a home computer I mean it's unheard of unheard of I think this is really just A first step into a long line of programs where we talk to the computer and it talks back to us I want to know what kind of insults we're going to get I mean it's it's it's What is this computer going to say to me if I insult it does that okay? Yeah It's like how does the computer know what to say? I mean are we going to be looking at how and just maybe in in five to eight years just coming home And it's talking to us and we tell it to do things for us like tell us the time or maybe turn on the lights Or you know what? I'm out of milk go order me some milk You know go get you know get milk home delivered or something with my groceries from the local You have to have the computer on all the time. I mean As much as I love that scenario that seems Well, no, I mean the way the More intensive and the way some of the things that comp you serve have worked You you put in your order and then it'll tell you what to expect deliveries So you could shut down the computer after that I mean, I guess if you're worried about it getting canceled or something you have to put in a telephone number as a backup But it can't work Uh without having to be constantly taking up the phone line But I also think this underscores how powerful basic is I mean Basic has been touted as the beginner's Programming language is it's it's fully interpreted. It means you don't need to compile it and run it And uh, you know, maybe it's not a structure just for trying to cold ball. No, certainly not. Yeah, but but definitely I mean, that's a very powerful Language to be able to recreate something like this For the home the home market I think it's amazing that you have the option to pick up the unprotected source code Right who else is doing that right now to make it so that you can customize this thing without having to start from scratch And type it all in although some people would argue that it's a cash grab to make you pay to get the source code You should get the source code anyway When you pay for software, but I understand what you're saying. It's an interesting model. I haven't seen that either I I don't know. I mean I tried Eliza on basic and If you know, I mean, you know, she's a program you could start to see Where she's a little repetitive or avoiding what you say But I think if you really didn't know somehow that you were talking to a computer That it could fool some people. I mean this is the beginning of AI. It's incredibly Imagine if yeah, Eliza became Oh, I don't know like an assistant that that humans actually got used to talking to you as if it was Yeah, yeah, you could just type in whatever you want and it could I don't know how I'd carry it out But yeah, well, you know, it used to pen pal. I don't know Yeah, just somebody to talk to the idea of it being a you know, I did a female of some kind Like, you know, if they had telecommunication services like Hayes modem support or something and you could dial into a service You know like at my university and then you know upload things or download things as as needed I think it would be pretty nice pretty nice. Hey folks If you don't have time to listen to these cassettes all the time we understand That's why we also make a compressed headlines version of the show available on dictaphone It's a smaller cassette and a smaller show And you can get that from the same place that you get this show. It's called the daily tech headlines All right, I want to talk a little bit about another story in this month's popular computing magazine written by a richard imel The title is is software piracy justified software piracy Is a problem It's it's it's something that you think of as hobbyists You think of as companies saying, you know, people getting together and swapping disks is taking money out of our pockets But that's not all in fact. Imler makes the really good point that there is corporate piracy being engaged in by technical officers of corporations They generally use it to maybe run a piece of software on multiple machines when they only are authorized to run it on one Sometimes it's used for good though cracking into code to fix bugs Or even make backup copies with which a lot of corporations feel they shouldn't have to pay extra for You know, you know backup backup being your software. I think is one reason I'll be honest. I copy software I buy because I want to backup And when you're paying, you know 70 or 80 dollars for for lotus one two three Um, it comes on a single floppy and if that goes, I mean you're gonna have a hard time Asking the company to you know, give you give you an additional copy and you know having a backup I mean, isn't that what we all do when I when I write a report I keep a copy of it that you know often a drawer locks somewhere in the file cabinet I just make so it makes sense to have a copy of software that you have bought now granted piracy is an issue In that but I think I think you know the concerns about piracy are warranted But I don't necessarily believe that the the answer to it has been very successful Well, sure if it's for personal usage as you've described roger I totally agree with you because you're you're you know, you're creating a backup, right? It's a it's some sort of a safety net What about in these more corporate institutions where there might be copies of software that have not technically been paid for and I mean Who's going to go after these corporations for things like this? Who's who's who's monitoring this sort of stuff? I mean Piracy is piracy, right? It's stealing. I you know, honestly, I think maybe it might be the model the way they sell the software Instead of selling it like a book Right where you just get the one copy and and and you read it and people, you know, think you can go and Hand it out You know, it's it's a different model that that calls for a different kind of answer than what people have been Doing so far, which I think is you know, you know Looking at it from the you know from the days when you know vinyl LPs Which are still very popular day, but are being slowly Passed over for newer technologies Right and there's some optical disc technology smaller versions of laser discs that are are being explored as ways of A more durable form a more faithful fidelity for music Uh, so so we're we're definitely moving to different storage options that will address some of these problems But right now I get the problems on both sides if I'm a company and I just spent a lot of money I spent $1,500 Uh on four copies of a piece of software I want to have a backup of it just in case right that that makes sense I've spent a lot of money on something if one of them gets damaged. I want to be able to replace it Now some software vendors are more amenable to replacing than others But they all want to prevent the abuse of people saying pretending that their their software is damaged Uh and and replacing it that way Some companies offer backup copies at a at a slightly reduced fee from buying a full new copy, but that can be abused too So, you know, it's a matter of trust Uh at at the end of it here, but mr. Imel actually has three different scenarios For why different corporate officers might engage in software piracy I was thinking I might run these by the panel here And you you guys tell me what you think Of of whether these are over the line or not All right So the first one is mr. Finance. Now these are taken from actual people that he interviewed But but they're not Yeah, they're not going to give their names. Mr. Finance has four copies of visit calc available for use on 12 computers Uh for convenience he Made some extra copies so that you know the 12 computers don't have to go running down the hall to find out who had it last Uh No more than one version is running at a time. He says so he's not like running 12 versions and and really trying to get around He says he thought spending $1,500 on the four copies was enough To justify needing to run one at a time And making the copies was a convenience Because maybe one of the corporate officers is taken at home and they have a micro computer at home that they use Well, I don't want to tattle tail here But I know that my grandfather at the university does a similar thing for all of the students so that they Can practice and get better and be ready for the corporate world because there isn't really any kind of way to get it cheaper for the educational institutions I mean to be honest. I think mr. Finance Might have a point. I mean if you're using it I mean again, I think I think we're I don't know what the model will be but i'm not sure the model We're using right now is really fit for the way software is used, but he's breaking copy protection Well, you know It's yeah I mean, what if what if What if you could uh sarah, what do you think of mr. Finance? I think mr. Finance He's got four copies of software. He's got 12 computers his his team, um, I I get why this is very convenient for them But will the software manufacturer be happy to know that he didn't buy 12 copies for the 12 computers? No. Yeah, definitely not so that's you know, it's it's sort of like I I get why it works for him, but If he's not allowed to do that, but only one is running at a time Remember, I mean you have to have the disk and put it in the computer. This is just for convenience This is just so you don't have to run down the hall or find out who left it at home Uh, I see swears they're not running more than one at a time Well, and if mr. Finance is being honest then great. I just feel like there's such a uh This really opens it up to abuse by people who are not going to be there you go. It's all about trust, right? Mr. Consultant keeps programs like word processors in a library. That's pretty common Where folks can check it out Get the disks put it in use the word processor when they need it However, each copy is supposed to be licensed to a single machine So he's violating the license by letting people get it out of the library and use it even though it's I mean, it's a floppy disk, right? I mean you can put it in any machine, but technically It's only supposed to be used on one machine Well, you know This kind of relates to mr. Finance if only one machine is using it at a time. Is it really a violation? But that's the license the license says it should be you have to buy one copy for every machine you're going to use it on Well, I know in my uh, my old, uh, university library. This is how it worked. They had one No, they actually had two Computers and you would go up and you would take the software from behind the desk And they would only have one copy. So whether it's word star or Some, you know, some education Related program you you put it in and you run it, you know, that's that's the end of it. I You know, it's it's hard to I mean I understand But the same time I like, you know This is I think this is a restrictive license. Don't you guys? Yeah, I think I think What if they just if I buy a floppy disk I should be free to put it in any computer I want as long as I don't make a copy of it copy protection is meant to I mean it's it's it's like you It's like taking a an LP and saying you can only play it on this one exact turn right right. No exactly. That's ridiculous Yeah, that that that I agree with you guys there as long as there aren't copies being made that the Originating company hasn't authorized I think this seems I think this seems fair Well, honestly consultant is he's following the spirit of the law if not the letter sure No, that's a good way of putting it. Uh, finally, mr. Office man has 20 copies of piece of software for 100 employees Uh, and he says you know what if the company that I spent the money buying the 20 copies of doesn't like it Uh, we'll stop doing business with you They use copy to pc So programs can be loaded onto hard disks Uh loading onto hard disks usually is prevented by copy protection. Now. This is a little more sophisticated This is an office manager saying look, I've got 20 copies I got 100 employees and they're all going to be able to use it. I'm going to load it on the hard disk You don't like it. We'll take our business somewhere else We don't care about your licensing terms and yeah, but you know like mr. Office and mr. Consultant Very similar issue. I mean it's if he has 20 copies and there's 20 mr. Consultant is using one copy though At a time whereas He's not making copies mr. Office man is making copies not only making copies. He's putting them on a hard drive Well, you know, that's so so I think this goes back to two things verification And the in the licensing model What if the licensing model was a little Not as restrictive and it was based on kind of a timeshare principle. You can only use the software For like say the the 12 hours of the day and this is what you pay Doesn't matter who who runs it doesn't matter what machine runs on Sometimes I think all of these issues are just a result of the fact that software is natively not something you should be able to protect That that you know software used to be the thing that you just use to run the hardware you bought Uh and people should be able to fix bugs people should be able to go in and and Change the software to use the machine they're using I get that micro computers are different than the more single purpose machines that we used to have Uh, but at the same time like I I know there's a lot of companies out there making money and it's a business But it's you're fighting against the winds here. You're fighting against the nature of code It just makes me wonder what's going to happen to these software companies that are making software that Everyone wants to use particularly in an office setting It's it's it's valuable But if you're a company that can only sell a certain amount of copies Kind of knowing that behind closed doors. There are copies being made. You can't keep track of all of that stuff Yeah, you know, are we putting companies in jeopardy by exhibiting this behavior even if we feel it's warranted What if they make their money not on writing the software but but supporting it so you pay them But it's like a subscription fee. I don't know I mean, I I think one of the one of the issues with copy protection right now is these These technical officers or companies are like, we're better at fixing the bugs than the software companies are I I I don't think anybody wants to pay the software company To to manage something that they feel like they can manage better. They just want access to the code Well, you know one thing but uh, mr. Office men is very dedicated to Stealing more copies of the software than he's entitled to it doesn't seem like he's about fixing the bugs as a Solution. No, it's not the only reason. That's true. That's true and and that goes back to sarah's point of You know if mr. Office man gets his way too often these software companies are going to run out of business There's a question of how big of a business can software ever be when it faces this problem It's it's gonna have to solve it. It's gonna have to solve it before Yeah, I think this this just shows that hardware makers will always be the bigger companies than than software companies All right, let's finish up with something out of our mailbag sarah trials Excuse me trials did case from raleigh, north carolina writes Campbell university school of law where I am an adjunct professor of computer law began offering a course in computer law three years ago Campbell also requires each law student to take a course in the use of Microcomputers in the law office and offers courses in the use of westlaw legal research system Now as is typical for other high technology areas around the country the micro electronics and information industries located in research Triangle park offer excellent opportunities to private practitioners like myself engaged in the wide range of issues involved in Computer law. There's more and more of them apparently because of the pervasiveness of information technology Lawyers and law students must develop a working knowledge of computers and computer law In order to provide complete services to clients who rely on these technologies It's really opening up a whole, you know area of study particularly at the university level I I I've said it before and I'll say it again I think Computer programming and and how to use a computer should be just a normal part of High school coursework leading into university where it should also be a required course like typing Well, I don't know if it should be required or not, but because typing isn't necessarily required But it's highly encouraged if you're going to aim yourself at certain places function in the in the 80s with so much of our Business and so much of our infrastructure moving to computers again. You're gonna need to have these skills It's just as important as arithmetic and reading and writing Well, I wonder now back to our piracy discussion How involved the courts are going to be when the software companies want to challenge say mr. Office man about his goings on Yeah, well and and charles d. Case's letter here. It makes me very hopeful that future judges which draw from law students generally Will have a good basis in computers and understanding micro computers and micro electronics If that's the case then our future laws should be well established and and and very helpful I'm also really interested to see what kinds of court cases come out of the fact that a lawyer who's very competent in computer law Who might be working for a corporation? Who's not real keen on people stealing software? What kind of case against civilians we might be seeing what kind of cases? Yeah, are they going to start going after those hobbyists those Folks who get together and you know eat snacks and and trade floppy disks is right, right, you know We're gonna see raids like 30s style keystone cups running in like give me your discs Hand them over. Yeah, and how how will the public react to that? You know, who side will they be on? I would I would argue that the side of the the the pirate But you know, it's it's you know, the law's the law It's it's it's gonna change. I mean when computers become common places stereos and TVs and refrigerators And I predict this will happen in the next eight years. I think uh, you'll have A population that is going to be a little Uh a little more educated, but also, you know Maybe a little more entitled about being able to do things they want with the machine that they paid with their own money Yeah All right. Well, uh, thank you gen cutter, uh for joining us If folks want to uh follow your work, uh, where should they look? You should look at openalpha.tv and on this thing called twitter where you can just follow me by my name gen cutter That's uh, it's it must be similar to compu serve or Or or something like that. It's interesting. Yeah, and and a domain name very sophisticated. I love that Uh, well, uh, if you want to support the show Our mailing address is uh found at daily tech news show dot com slash support And you can mail your checks to us at that address there Our email address I know I know we're trying it out. We're trying it out But hopefully we'll get some emails its feedback at daily tech news show dot com We're live monday through friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern 21 30 utc at elphageek radio dot com and diamond club dot tv For our most pro users obviously and our website is daily tech news show dot com Uh, somehow we're gonna have a cassette tomorrow with john price matthew paul boyer and our listener co-host show What's that gonna happen? Must be the future This show is part of the frog pants network get more at frog pants dot com I hope you have enjoyed this brover