 Amnesty International and others knock federal government as Minister of Information, Lai Mohamed, robbishes the Leci Massacre Report and the Inter-Party Advisory Council, IPAC, calls for President Bahari to assent to the amendment or the amended 2021 Electoral Act. This is Plus Politics, I am Mary Anna Corn. The Minister of Information and Culture Lai Mohamed has described the report of the Lagos State Judicial Panel of Inquiry on Restitution and Victims of SARS-related Abuses as one laced with discrepancies, inconsistencies and was unverified fake news. He insisted that nobody was killed at the Leci Toll Plaza on October 20, 2020. He also said the panel only wasted taxpayers' monies by coming up with such an unsensical report and he labelled it Tales by Moonlight. While joining us to discuss this are journalist Abdul Lahee Hassan, Karl Chinidu and Public Affairs Analyst Uche Chuta. Thank you very much Abdul Lahee for joining us. I am going to start with you Abdul Lahee. You obviously are a journalist, you are a Nigerian and you obviously are looking at this from outside of the country and you are wondering obviously what's happening in the country, especially with the Information Minister calling the report that was just released, Tales by Moonlight. What do you make of what's happening right now? Well, good evening. Let me say first that it was really a good attempt by Nigerians, thousands of young Nigerians including women and youth who in October 2020 went out en masse to protest against the police brutality and also called for the SARS, Particle Police Unit of Sprat. That was a good move but again people died and there was a destruction of properties, which of course led to the setting up of the panel of enquiries to investigate these killings like in Turkey and in Lagos state. Now a lot of us out there, I mean international community wanted to see what the outcome of this report would be and it's really not a good say out here, especially with Lai Muhammad because what we do know is that what he says oftentimes is not what the government intends to dish out to the public and even when he's being called that says don't go back later and say no I didn't say that so it's like us having no trauma in Nigeria. So this report really it is disappointing to have Lai Muhammad somebody that knowledgeable you know who had been in the limelight and the public sector for a decade in the response to such a report you know he it's enough to say that you don't agree with all the findings but to describe a report as it tells by moonlight a program which you know in the 90s was one of the favorite shows I watched because it's really like a tale for children is really unprofessional and if this is an attempt to go by I want to believe that Lai Muhammad wasn't speaking on his capacity as the minister of information for the Republic of Nigeria but really speaking for the entire government and including Muhammad Abu Ari himself and I would want to conclude by saying that this is an attempt by the government to throw a blanket on this report in a way to say we are not interested and even though there's a push for the recommendations to be implemented we will not go ahead with that because he said it did not he's going to change their mind on that too a minister should not speak to people like that because Nigeria is already tensed we have issues of insecurity from almost all the regions or zones of Nigeria unemployment is on the high inflation is today two digit that's enough problem for Nigeria to deal with already and you don't want to respond to them you know in such a manner which he did for me if we are in a civilized society and especially a person of Lai Muhammad who thinks he knows it all and he's highly educated I think this calls for his resignation well talking about resignations now one of the lawyers that was on that panel Adebu as that yesterday was calling for the resignation of not just you know the governor he's calling for a resignation of before before we get to the resignation part he he is being threatened by the way if you've been following this story a young lady who testified in front of this panel was almost butchered yesterday she was left for dead but thank goodness she's alive, Kemka I think that's her name she she made it and she was threatened you know and this is what Adebu is also saying that he's being threatened and he thinks that these are government goons for the want of a better word he thinks that these are supporters of the government but I'm wondering if the state government if Lagos state government put out all that money time and energy and put together a panel to investigate because when the first when people were making arguments as to whether or not people were killed or soldiers were even dispatched to that place the first question was well where's the evidence how are we sure that this is true but then the panel has come up with a report and now people are being targeted as a journalist and as someone who's watching from the outside I'm wondering um what do you think the government really is going for because is the government not ready for the truth or is it that they're not ready to deal with the consequences of what this report is supposedly to bring yeah I think I'll go with your second option yeah the government the government know when when we're talking about the government we need to look at it um in its um um how would I say 360 view of it all which includes the executive you know and the legislature and of course um the judiciary because if it goes down a lot of people will fall because there is no way that the military it doesn't matter who was that the military or the police or the the more polar as they are called they cannot on their own authorize that this part or the plant to any area at all they call a rough spot for that has been exposed or of course um has some tendencies of violence you know uh you know taking place they cannot be there without an authorization so what I'm trying to do might take care is nobody wants to fall nobody wants to fall including the state governor nobody really wants to take nobody wants to show that that responsibility but you see until we have people who become accountable not only to their words about actions then we are not ready to change as um as a society as a state and as people we are not ready to do that so nobody wants to go down president mohari for all I know is going to end his tenure when um 2023 um so he's not thinking like he's not thinking much about what the outcome might be but among the ministers we are some of them do for now as we know have intentions of becoming governors but are not talking about it yet they were doing for the right time to to declare or make public the intentions you have honorable members you have senators all for I know have long-term political ambition say in the next 20 years nobody wants to go down because they feel that if this goes down um it's going to somehow create a dent in their political career or credentials so nobody wants to take responsibility that's what I say Carl you work with civil societies and um this is also a class for concern I'm curious governors of states seem to be very quiet on this particular issue law makers seem to be very quiet about this issue our process now out which one way or the other is indicting not just one person but many even the the Nigerian army the Nigerian police and governments at all levels because again the army takes its order from its boss and its bosses take orders from the commander in chief of the armed forces which is mr president so again um what's your take on all of this in Broglie or for one of a better word hula baloo hula baloo Carl yes I am here you go ahead the issues are very simple here because the president is the commander in the armed forces so like you rightly say the armed forces take direct command from him and we know that the technology of our secret mission here that most state governor can even order the military out of their parents without the go ahead from the president and commander in chief so I think that the pop stops to the trouble is present on this matter whatever the Nigerian army did on the field comes back to him because he is the commander in chief he's the number one military person in Nigeria whether he is a civilian president or not because he has that authority as commander in chief so whatever the military did are the likely to get conspired directly to president Muhammad Bawari because they were asking for that interestingly and I wonder why do you think that the lawmakers and our governors seem to be a bit more quiet on this issue and not pushing us we hurt them very vocally when they were talking about vat now again we're also not hearing anybody else other than those who have political ambitions talking about this issue and pushing I'm talking about the likes of the former vice president at Iqab Abu Bakar we've also heard from a former senate president who obviously has intentions to run and other politicians who have political ambitions those are the people we seem to be hearing but those who seem to be serving us those who we voted into office to represent us and represent those people who were killed seem to be very silent about this why do you think that is well like I said there's the sense of collective sense of guilt and shame over the leki massacre because the political class for the first time we are actually brought out in the true colors they they deserve to be so and besides too the fears of another round of riots is also keeping all the political actors together on one board so that like let us stay together and make sure this thing doesn't erupt once more I think that it is actually very sad that people are no longer talking about the land that we are lost at leki but instead they are I don't it is unnecessary debate so actually whether it took place or not but that is the normal leki on my ground so like once more I think they are all they are all in it together and they want to cover it up so that you wouldn't get out of hand okay this is interesting um how about young people the average young Nigerian this obviously um is something that is worrying remember just recently um there was an attempt to protest and march on the anniversary of the death of people at that toll gate and we saw the might of the police we saw the might of you know the government at that toll gate how does the the aftermath of this I mean the report has still is still being you know looked at by the government but this report has been given we've had some of the important parts of this report made public um and we hear that even after the army had left the leki toll the police came back to do some more damage and with all of the back and forth with line mohammed calling it uh you know a tales by moonlight and saying that there are many consistencies and it's fake news how does this affect the psyche of the average and Nigerian and the average young person who's fighting for good governance who's asking for a better life and asking you know that the police will stop um wrongly profiling them well the like the they wanted to come out again on October 20th and the police went to leki toll gate and stood there trying to stop them from having a memorial was living a protest was also a memorial of the lives that were lost now the issue is actually bigger than we are actually talking about it has international ramifications bohari and his government are basically right now on trial for international crimes and maybe because he feels he has some immunity um nothing's gonna happen but you have to deny this as much as they can because come 2023 a case is already being lodged in the hake international court for crimes against humanity shooting innocent civilians and this is what they are afraid of this is why everyone is quiet it's a big deal it means political people in political office may not be able to travel freely after 2023 and not be arrested it's a crime you just like it's a Tiananmen square or a you know combat in in Nigeria you can't do something like this without any ramifications the international community is watching and they're waiting for 2023 and immediately his term expires in 2023 elapses this is going to take a whole new dimension and this is the reason why lai has to deny this to the last even with overwhelming evidence he has to deny this government they can and you're going to notice only lie is going to talk about this issue no other government official is going to say they don't know who to be quoted lie has not moved past his mode campaign mode he still feels his new position would in the apc trying to wrestle government from the pdp so he hasn't changed so he can see anything that that's a method that has worked for him is still working for him he's not he doesn't have the capacity to move to become an official of the federal cabinet as a minister and speak as a minister he doesn't have the capacity it's asking for too much for him to speak as a minister so he's going to keep on saying things like this but he's going to be the only one speaking like this everyone is going to remain mute because they know that anything they say can be held against them in the court of law international court of law i'm still going to push you on the issue of the psyche of the average nigerian what what happens to us because we see a mass movement people are leaving it's now a thing you know i go on linkedin and i see people asking nigerians if they're interested in moving away from nigeria and so many people are raising their hands because they seem not to be comfortable in the country so um if we're seeing so many people move away from the country for fear of whatever um what does this now playing out and and the fact that government is making a caricature of it or a joke out of this what does it do to the psyche of the average nigerian who's still staying here and having hope that there will be a better nigeria i mean demoralizes us you know like on on october 20th you know once this report came out and the government began to deny it people were downcast young people were downcast we we we we leave the memories all again first of all the report came out we're thinking about it then the government denied it and there's sadness and but the the truth is that all nigerians can't leave the country even as much as i hope to and wish that i can happen it's still our country and um we we we we have to deal with this we have to keep on fighting we have to keep on hoping we have to still try and keep on make our leaders accountable yes there's despair amongst young people especially with the way government is denying it but it's some small glimmer of hope where another government lego state government released this report we are putting a federal system and lego's is a federating unit of nigeria so there's still hope um just because some people at the center are denying it doesn't necessarily mean they didn't happen it doesn't mean there won't be restitution it doesn't mean that justice will not be served we are hopeful um so we we're not going to lose hope this is a we're happy that this happened because it means that there's some small hope it actually gives us a sign of hope that things might change i'm going to come back to you um abdelahi um if there's uh if there's a collaborative um oath of silence per se um by all concerned including those who are in the political class like i said illa and who were supposed to represent us so those who used to speak up before but are now silent um i'm thinking um what happens come 2023 is this going to affect not just the ruling party uh but of course the opposition because most of these people who are in the national assembly and some of these governors uh are also part of these opposition parties again every state more states where these protests took place or where there's been reports of police brutality set up panels um to look into this issue but it's only lega states that has followed through so what happens to those panels should we not be asking those questions in the other states again nobody's talking about it and why now um first of i don't believe that margarita as a nation if at all there is we don't have an opposition party we don't because if you observe clearly the trend has been that people from pdp after a while we criss-cross they jump over to apc after a while when it's an election time they they come to you know like that has been the trend people just keep jumping from one party to the other so there was never really a healthy opposition anywhere in Nigeria that's one um two you would understand clearly like the states where people were killed including police officers you have equity you have or shun uh maybe and parts of uh the north for instance there are all apc states so for me people are still not practicing democracy as it should be practiced so it's more about the party the interest of the party and who we owe our allegiance to as opposed to what benefits the society and of course put in national interest first so if this happens come 2023 well this is where i see you two have the qualification who have the necessary requirement and um the knowledge you know in terms of leadership now leadership i mean every sense of it not leadership because you are a boss at home your family a wife and two kids doesn't make you a leader i mean the leader understands when to take actions that even if it means hurting people next to you but you have to now what happens is uh what will happen is that um definitely there will need to be a change of government and we need to have people new people out of the system as we know now people who are yet to enter the system you know say um occupy um sensitive positions and this is the time for us to start now so beyond answers let's have people like uh my my poor panelist one of them is quite young you know to lead a campaign where people with the requirement people the qualification can come together already and see how leadership you know can can come back to the youth and because you cannot have somebody's people from the 70s and 80s use that old mentality to govern a state where like everything today is changed we are now at the modern age you know 24th century you know this needs to change you know that's what i see okay um back to you car um again ask civil society he's he's made a he's made a great point we need to fight but how do we fight why i'm asking this every single time a group of people and it has nothing to do with answers a group of people stand up against the government it's either we see a group of people that are being paid to stand against those people and speak for the government or we see the full might and the power of the government whether it's federal or state again how do people fight twitter is it's still it's now become a back burner it's nobody's talking about it anymore and so if you have money you can use a vpn and go and go ahead and vent to the space because nobody's going to listen to you um so some of these rights have been taken away from the average Nigerian you really can't protest the government is going to come out and say you've not been stopped to protest but that again the Lagos State Police Commissioner will come out and say you're not allowed to protest don't come out tell your children to stay at home so how do you fight what do you do how do you go about letting your voice get heard without losing your eye your arm or even losing your life well it is the supreme irony that the government that came into power to protest has done everything possible to ensure that protests are outlawed and truly a sad world and uh of course how does it affect the psyche of Nigeria you can place it place it just oppose this side by side with what will happen in any other country which soldier will open fire on somebody waving the national flag i think it's national item nobody does that and that was the mindset that these young stars went to with to look like a because everybody was so that as long as you have your national flag national item nobody will touch you and you saw the horrendous massacre that took place in Lake so what if you ask how does it affect your psyche it generally does because for once Nigerians are confronted with the spectrum of the government a country that does not care for and of course it's it's it's also not perfect that people should be making every effort to jump the boat jump boat and live so as uh with regards to 2023 i really don't know what's going to happen because the answer is the question is who is going to vote and for who like you said they have shut down the social media space they have shut down the protest space they have shut down virtually everything and of course with the security across the country so i Nigerians are really scared right now and i don't think that even if you call a protest i do this it will be sure that a lot of people won't come out because the government has demonstrated that it is capable of doing anything no one's sufficient of murder of course we've seen situations where those who protested at the n-stop panel they go have been targeted and have been attacked for one after the other so the the atmosphere in the country right now is for the young people who are put into society and everywhere there is this poor people here everywhere this goes mental uh well uche you you have the last word and the blickness that i i sense in in in um in carl's statement makes me really not know what to ask you but i will ask um so going forward what's the shred of hope that we can hold on to because there's nothing we can do like you said we all can't run away from nigeria it's our country and we cannot be run out of our own country so what do we do going forward what's the shred of hope that we need to hold on to um what's that thing that the average nigerian who's watching tonight can hold on to and that they can give them hope well let's let's continue participating in the civic processes um civic processes in the sense of voting and also putting yourselves in position to be elected uh yes i understand that the the electoral system has been hijacked by the states even security forces which can show their candidates of choice always emerge as winners but it does but they still can do so much they can they can still if we participate in the numbers that we came out on october 20th um 2020 they can't rig the elections the same way they've done it before in the past so we we need to come up with force we need to show ourselves on that election day and say you know well let's build up let's build up momentum to the voting day in the same way we built up momentum in 2015 when the present government was in the position and they riled up nigerians and told them all sorts of scary stories of corruption and days and they're turning nigeria into uh some utopian states let's let's build ourselves up in that momentum i like the way you keep on the stress in 2020 the stress is about change of government keep it on let's hope and let's let's let's be our final push let's be our final push and say you know what 2023 that's what we're pushing or pushing for candidates in in the national assembly and governorship position as president people who will do the right thing and we're going to come out on that day regardless of rain sunshine whatever and we're going to put in and vote in candidates who represent our ideals and the nature of the world okay well uh abdelahi hassan khal chenidu and of course uchi chuta thank you very much gentlemen for being part of this conversation thank you all right well thank you all for staying with us we'll take a short break now and when we return the electoral act amendment bill is at the forefront of this conversation