 Hi. Good afternoon, everyone. Good competition. Good competition. That is what we are all wishing. It is happening now. Healthy competition. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to this session on cities and engines of growth. My name is Shivnath Thukral. I'm with the Carnegie Endowment and to my left on the other corner is Mr. Chandrababu Naidu. Honored to have you on the panel, sir. He is the Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh and, of course, a new state in a lot of ways and, of course, his experience as a former Chief Minister as well has enough things to be very, very proud of as to what he did under his Chief Ministership. The man next to me doesn't need any introduction. He's the co-chair of the forum this year plus the CEO of Niti Ayog. He's a former Chief Minister but hopefully World Economic Forum knows because of my past experience in media and having dealt with Mr. Kant I should be able to do justice but taking off from where we have been talking about a lot of things about economic development, urbanization just to give a bit of perspective 1950, one-third of the country lived in cities in 2050, two-thirds of the world just to give some perspective 2010 to 2050 we'll have 500 million more people living in urban cities which is equal to about 1.5 Americas that India needs to build. So that just gives you some perspective as to what the challenge lies as far as cities are concerned in this country. Mr. Naidu, I'll open it up by asking you, you have an enormous task of building a new city a new capital city, Amravati and which is where you're looking for investments, looking for ideas how different will your approach be this time knowing that you're going to be catering to a demographic which is young, which is hungry which is ambitious, needs a job and always connected online to criticize you or compliment you? No, to start with you may criticize ultimately you will appreciate. So, I'm very happy always without capital bifurcation is very painful process it is a crisis at the same time how to convert crisis into an opportunity now generally people will get an opportunity to expand city create one more city for example in Hyderabad in 1995 when I started we had two cities one is Sikindrabad and Hyderabad then I added one more city that is Saibarabad that is a new city today Saibarabad is the total economic activity you name all infrastructure anything for that matter it took for me nine years it is a model city now knowledge economy you name any company they are all there to start with we didn't have one flight also there was no connectivity only Indian cities but ultimately no foreign connectivity so many problems then we have overcome all these things now one of the best airport in Hyderabad you have seen and also fourth best city in India in terms of traffic everything even economy even infrastructure metro Hyderabad at that time we have conceived 162 kilometers outer ring road and also that is six lane ultimately eight lane across metro everything we have considered even widening of roads better infrastructure we have done this time to build a new capital green field capital it is a rare opportunity at that time I developed one more city and also I have improved that city today I am seeing different picture all together I am visualizing and also this is a very dynamic place beautiful place I gave an offer I don't have money after bifurcation you are all aware even for a family for a company at least companies will have big assets to build last 50 years everybody settled in Hyderabad we have spent all our energies, resources in Hyderabad because of Hyderabad now Telangana is having surplus budget everything then immediately we have shifted without having any offices we don't have any office complex also there then I gave a call to the people requesting them to participate in land polling all of you how land polling or land equation is a big problem painful process even nowadays after new land equation act and also new policy it has become more and more problematic so I gave a call we went out of capital it is a win-win situation why can't all of you give me under land polling I am very happy 34,000 acres of land I didn't spend even one pie I was able to acquire 35,000 acres of land for that all political parties as usual they all opposed they want to create problem they provoked farmers wisdom prevails with farmers ultimately they supported me not even one litigation except political litigation by political parties again no formal is going others are going to the court every aspect they are challenging green tribunal high court, supreme court different courts and also ultimately we have called switch challenge that also they are challenging like that they are creating some problems but today I am thinking very clearly India we have done so many cities one is Chandigarh Nairaipur Bombay New City Navibombay even Ahmedabad that is Gandenagar these are all the cities but this time what I am thinking it is a green field city I wanted to build one of the best I wanted to benchmark internationally I am working which are all the recent cities it must be one among top 5 in the world that is how I am planning to build this city there is a very opportunity land is available now I want to bring best education institutions best hospitals best hotels even international schools tourism I want to make it not only administrative city it is administrative city and also economic city it has created we are all talking how things are happening in urban areas and also how growth is going to happen in urban areas for us that is the challenge we are having one advantage around 40 to 60 kilometers river both river friends I can develop it I ask them we have considered blue and green consultant he is working one is Tata and also another partner is from Amsterdam they are working with us I ask them anywhere this type of place is available he said nowhere in the world because two rivers are merging there so much of water is available in reservoirs another river we have connected through lift irrigation ultimately gravity water is going to come water no problem it is a city full of canals you know water is dynamism it will give so much of energy and also all buildings we are working international buildings best iconic buildings so this is the work is going on it will take some more time for take off already some of the best institutions they can save it they are coming and they are starting their work for engineering colleges, medical college everything 50,000 students and also Amroth they are also coming Amethi they are working even SRM they are also coming some international schools are coming some hospitals Indo Indo Japan, England they are coming one hospital from Dubai he is also working with us he is having some chain of hospitals so this is where we are moving in the direction if I may ask you so clearly this time around since the green field project if something goes wrong people will look at you and if everything works out they will obviously say there is no job that you have to do it chances are less I like your optimism you clearly said when you were doing the land pooling it was political parties and the litigation by politicians which is a problem and you are a great politician you are also mindful of whatever you are trying to do has always have a five year horizon or a five year window because you eventually need to go back and get that mandate back how do you see both playing out especially when it comes to urbanization now during election time is always beaten up as a favorite topic because the urbanization is to blame for everything except that as we go into the future it is urbanization which is the answer to all the problems or rather majority of the problems that we face today now what I am saying one is urbanization it is inevitable you are handling urbanization so you cannot stop urbanization if you handle properly that is your advantage under the same time you have to concentrate rural also agriculture also this year I am focusing last year also we had done this year we are doing innovative way this year my agriculture growth rate is first quarter of this year 22.5% on agriculture all in days only 1.8% that is how we are focusing on water and also focus on agriculture operations starting with seed soil testing micronutrients everything so clearly you don't want to take your eyes of that and I understand this remains one of the biggest challenge that if you don't develop your rural areas cities will always be seen as something to be jealous of and as you absorb that migration as you absorb the people coming in as Mr. Naidu says to get the best institutions get the best colleges, health centers you eventually it all boils down to the kind of leadership you need which believes in cities as a growth engine do you think that is now beginning to fall into place the work you are doing at Niti Aayog when you talk to chief ministers when you meet people like Mr. Naidu that is something which is now taken as granted Shivnath firstly India needs a second green revolution we need to make our agriculture more effective we need to bring in technology and agriculture but you can never have a green revolution in agriculture because the disguised unemployment in agriculture is enormous if 58% of your population is dependent on agriculture you need to take them out of agriculture and put them into manufacturing and a logical consequence of that manufacturing process will be the process of urbanization that's how it's happened across the world it's important because so by latest studies if 700 million people are going to get into the process of urbanization in India by 2050 that's what Mackenzie says that means the challenges that every minute as we speak here today there are 30 Indians moving from rural areas to urban areas 700 million Indians means that you have to create 2.5 Americas and if you don't do this every single city of India will become a slum Mumbai is becoming a slum Delhi is becoming a slum Calcutta right outside over our hotel is becoming a slum so you need to do new urbanization we must understand this and India has been a very very reluctant urbanizer it's been a very reluctant urbanizer because prior to independence we had several political leaders who had been mayors of cities you know Rajan Prashad Seeraj Gopalachari many of them had been mayors of cities we didn't have many people who had come with this experience of handling urban cities probably the only person who drove urbanization was Mr. Chandrababha Naidu who drove urbanization in a very professional scientific efficient manner in the city of Hyderabad and now the second one is what we've seen the mayor of Nagpur getting elected as the chief minister of Maharashtra so we didn't have any urban schemes for India now we need many more urban schemes this government is the first government which is talking about 100 smart cities and the only way India can urbanize rapidly is you know to to focus on very good innovative sustainable urbanization we can't copy the American model because when America urbanized land, gas, water all cheaply available and because they were cheaply available you could live in New Jersey you could travel to New York you could guzzle gas you had limousines all over they created cities like Atlanta where 98% of the people travel by cars so Americans created the most polluting cities you need to learn from many more models and India needs to create compact dense cities where you recycle your water you recycle your waste and many of those lessons actually come from the eastern part of the world they come from Singapore a city livable city through a compact dense development they've embedded their city with public transportation first you need to learn from a city like Yokohama which actually has reduced waste utilization by almost 40% you learn from a city from like Kita Kyushu in Japan where everything it's one of the smartest cities in the world which became the most polluted city in 70s when Japan started manufacturing the women of Kita Kyushu rose on revolt and methi worked with them the Ministry of Trade and Industry of Japan worked with them and they recycle everything today from automobiles to bulbs to everything is recycled there and it's one of the smartest cities in terms of waste management so these are examples and India needs to emulate many of those models rather than copying the western model but the great thing is that India is getting this opportunity the process of urbanization is ended across America it's ended across Europe it's nearing its completion in China India the process of urbanization has just begun just begun and in the next 5 decades we'll do more urbanization than what we've done in the last 5,000 years and therefore India holds the key to an innovative, sustainable strategy of urbanization for the rest of the world if we do it right if Mr. Chandra Babu Naidu does it right which I'm 100% sure he will then we'll create a model for the rest of the world right and I think that's both the challenge and the opportunity you use two words and if I may highlight whenever you make two and a half mill times of America into India or next decade what we have seen in 5,000 years the two measures that you have to look at when it comes to cities is sustainability and livability and when you talk about sustainability and livability so the challenge goes to you Mr. Naidu in form of two questions one, as a state chief minister what do you really make of the smart city initiative because sitting in Delhi we may have a view that it's a great plan but somebody who's going to implement it so where do things like technology fit in where do things like modern ways of sanitation urban health centers all these fit in and second when you talk about livability there is a huge metric which is social inclusiveness do you see cities as centers of social inclusiveness or would you like to promote centers where there are gated communities where there are rich versus poor how do you adopt this going forward no it is um I will give you an example how things are happening nowadays because of technology and also internet of things this is a deadly combination how we are using I will tell you one city everywhere we are doing in Visakhapatnam exactly two years back we had a severe cyclone Uduz cyclone it was a total city no communication no plants water connectivity everything then always crisis and opportunity I was there for seven days eight days I stayed in bus I brought normalcy then only I returned to Hyderabad then we have created very good events three four events we conducted Visakhapatnam it will be all together best city in India all these things happened within one and half two years time even in Andhra Pradesh now technology how we are using totally all my LED bulbs first time we had a crisis then I thought how to go about then we got an idea by discussing LED bulbs so I can't replace LED bulbs are saving energy nearly 40 percent what I am spending today money they are giving 30 percent for me remaining 70 percent I am giving for investor that is the government of India entity they have completed in Andhra Pradesh 5.5 lakh LED bulbs as and now and also I didn't spend even one pie I am getting 30 percent benefit out of it second one they are going sensor based all 5.5 lakh 30,000 it will be on sensor I can monitor from my control room if you see Visakhapatnam each bulb is on which bulb is burnt how much time they have replaced everything it is on you are collecting big data in that sense not all big data it is control room if you see if you know automatically which bulb is how many bulbs are working how many bulbs are burnt at what time we have developed one of the most important app that is Microsoft real time I can send back information to the concerned officer concerned service provider and also database you can establish I can cut there what we are going to pay automatically service standards let me ask you one example I am telling you it is a great example and that is also segue for my question about the future of technology there is a on the fourth industrial revolution we had a discussion yesterday where there were things about Mr. Suresh Prabhu the real minister said that we need to be aware of what robots and artificial intelligence will do in terms of displacement of jobs so let me listen to your views on how will you create employment keeping in mind the challenges that technology will also throw up now what I am saying today all of you you cannot escape technology it is a reality first industrial revolution only small mechanization second industrial revolution it took so much of time to go for generation of power electricity third industrial revolution information technology internet fourth is now it is moving within no time very short time fourth industrial revolution we are witnessing during my time I use it to jokingly I promoted family planning in a big way in my earlier tenure now I am promoting family welfare and also promotion of population now my population is stagnant diminishing I am worried about it what China experienced South India is experiencing now slowly same thing I am telling you technology is moving very fast either biometrics CCTV cameras drones robotics if you can go virtual reality machine learning all these things are happening you cannot avoid it at the same time by using all these things my public distribution system through other based we are able to save real beneficiary is getting very easily my pensions total accountability I am going for e-office now there is no workload for all our offices earlier there was a hierarchical one file in so many places multiplier today all flat governance I don't have problems people are also enjoying all these things e-office, e-government, e-cabinet everything I am going paperless office in other place all these things are going to happen at the same time we can create employment so you don't see that as a challenge you see employment opportunities will arise skills if you develop different employment will come tourism, hotels or service sector even industry simultaneously when you save wealth or you save money that money if you spend again investment will create more jobs interesting to hear a state leader talk like that because we only hear about the fears of adoption of technology and AI and robots Mr. Amitabh Khan before I throw it open to the audience I want your view on one very very important subject and we have a lot of professionals in this room including both of you the level of expertise or knowledge within the government to urbanize versus the knowledge that exists outside how can both these work together because if we left it to politicians it will be a bit of a challenge as we have seen in the past you know I am glad that Siam Andhra is taking a little bit of time on Amravati because to my mind planning a city is very critical and he has got some of the best planners from across the world designing a city is very critical doing detailed engineering is very critical and embedding that city with underground network of infrastructure is very critical and in India we have this habit of rushing in with infrastructure work without doing detailed engineering we award the work and we keep doing planning and engineering while the work is going on and I am really glad that detailed time is being taken to do planning detailed engineering before we get into detailed execution that is the key but the key to urbanization is our ability to monetize land values and India has been extremely poor in its ability to monetize land values I mean look at the example of two urbanization that have taken place on either side of Delhi you know Gurgaon and Gurgaon we urbanized without basic infrastructure so when you did urbanization land value shot up when they shot up those values should have been captured and put back into city infrastructure but they went to builders and developers and went back to Gurgaon city the second example is of Noida where very good infrastructure was created excellent infrastructure was created Noida greater Noida land values again shot up but these were captured by political parties so you have two extreme examples unless and until land value the key to urbanization wherever it has succeeded is that land values when they shoot up monetization of land values must be captured in the city for creating more and more infrastructure and expanding that city's infrastructure and that's the model which Mr. Naidu is following so I think the monetization we must understand good planning good detailed engineering great amount of laying down the underground infrastructure but the key is capturing land values that's the crux and when you say that in my previous after the journalist I would have said okay capturing land values and expertise only with politicians and then it came to developers and that's where it got stuck so and I think that the north India model and the south India model to capturing monetary value of land I live in Gurgaon so I can sympathize with what you're saying because it rains for one day or half a day and then you really can't come to Delhi from Gurgaon unless you're taking the metro which is not thanks to the Haryana government but the DMRC but at this point I'll open it up to the audience I have lots of questions I'll come to each one of you let's take a bunch of questions together let me start at the very end and then I'll come in front can you please stand and my only request is don't give long questions targeted and identify who you want this answer to come from thank you Anirudh Sharma from Carbon Clean Solutions my question is to Mr Amitabh Khan we've recently signed the Paris Climate Change Agreement and now that you're talking about urbanization how do you see cities developing while still maintaining that green tag and not polluting no can I take one more question it will be easier for you so yeah so quickly just thank you Devendra Jani from Amdok is a global shaper behavior change is something which we are finding it very challenging you have infrastructure but citizens are abusing it metro's seats are ripping off and pedestrians are not being taken care of when you're driving educated people are throwing trash are there any tools or any plans for behavior change with the citizens because cities are how the citizens are let's start Mr. Khan on the green tag and Mr. Naidu on how do you plan to deal with citizen behavior Mr. Khan first to you firstly I don't think you can have smart cities at all till you don't have smart people and we started the wrong way I mean you expect politicians to keep cities clean or elected people to keep cities clean while you keep throwing garbage and dust around it's not possible I mean the basic thing is Indians must start taking responsibility for keeping it you're blaming only politicians you're a bureaucrat also actually he was he was giving a backhand compliment by the way you're also responsible but in Delhi you should only blame Mr. Arvind Kejrivali this is for the record guys but on the green tag I mean it's important that each one of us whether we are common citizens or bureaucrats or politicians each one of us Indians are not responsible enough we don't take ownership of the areas around us we believe that we'll keep our house clean and throw dirt around that will not happen I mean with that India can never be a smart country ever and therefore you know many I see the change in India you know I mean politicians have become far more delivery oriented changes being driven and unless citizens don't become responsible it'll be very difficult to drive this and citizens must also well they demand their right they must also take responsibility that's one number two I think the key to what you said about having a green India is about doing the right kind of planning if you want to meet your commitments towards the Paris goals it's important that you embed your cities with public transportation I said this that American cities were made for cars and not for people because the American car companies actually bought over the railway companies and destroyed them because they had to sell their cars that model is not applicable anymore in any other country you need to embed when you do new urbanization embed your cities with public transportation even if it is mass rapid transport with buses but you have to do that you need to recycle your waste you need to recycle your water we've been about three decades late in this but now every single state is now focusing on recycling of waste and recycling of water you do just these three things you will meet your targets Mr Naidu from you on citizen behavior as well as very quickly on the environment this is one aspect behavioral attitude changes how to bring I was a such a Bharat subcommittee convener to give a report I studied all these things never we focused on type of activities then at the time Amitabh was not with Nithya Yog under Nithya Yog we had some meetings one example I am telling you all over the world people are all saying everybody is eating everybody is drinking everybody is taking bath everything but they are able to dispose in India as a positional even during my time we had problems then a positional more problems and then I have seen quantum of just like hills all garbage waste when rain will come it will percolate and then kilometers together 10 kilometers 15 kilometers so much of smell pollution then we went to Tokyo I have seen even in middle of the city small plants are operating waste to energy very effectively even Jindal here it is working in Delhi but never we have replicated or any defect we can improve further immediately I got an idea then I gave recommendations also this type of issues central government state government revenue on that it is only notional all taxes you exempt then go to regulatory commission plant in my state 10 plants we are starting now it is only 65 megawatts around 4500 or 5000 metric tons garbage you can convert into energy we are having around 12000 megawatts of power it is nothing one paisa now with one day issue without spending any money we are converting waste to energy all solid waste management we are doing now this is what I am saying same thing you can go for sewerage same thing what is said we can go here attitude will changes it is very interesting Japan if you go nobody will throw paper on road you see you identify and also somebody will throw paper by mistake you found immediately will catch it take to the home and put it in dustbin that is the culture over a period of time Singapore anybody will throw paper on the road immediately 500 dollars fine finish everybody is afraid one day my minister Ashok is here he is now civil aviation minister my colleague as the finance minister he came along with me he smokes totally in Singapore he invited then I ask him what is saying Ashok what happened to you why you are not smoking sir here 500 rupees fine Singapore dollar 500 dollars I am having only that money then what to do so I don't want to smoke here is there a good idea for amravati maybe maybe a good idea for amravati I am saying first of all you have to educate people people are very smart if everything is clean twice through paper you go to vizag pattern now it is clean it is a matter of how you are going to perform continuously educate people that is why we give a recommendation every school every college every office they have to be involved public awareness is important can we get the mic here right in the front and Mr Bajaj after that one in the jacket please this is for both Mr Kant and Mr Naidu taking a cue from what you said Swiss challenge getting challenged so for these 100 smarter cities to be really successful don't you think the public procurement processes which we have been following for so many years they need to be changed there is a slide which is ongoing in social media Taj Mahal would not be Taj Mahal had Shahjahan decided on three quotations and the lowest one better why not QCBS Swiss challenge it would be really serious to make it successful interesting question we will come to that can I get Mr Bajaj and then I will come to you I cannot help but admire Chandrababu Naidu you nurtured a baby and then lost it but you did not shed a tear preparing another better baby I believe this baby can become the forerunner to the other smart cities if you do it well I remember you had taken a consultant I think it was Mckenzie & Company to help you with the complete planning development infrastructure and everything do you have such a model of taking a consultant with you for a new city got you I will take a couple of questions another question we have always believed whenever I have heard whether it is Samithab or ministers urbanization is centralizing people are coming in from villages to cities this is what urbanization is in the perception of people it need not be it can be decentralized where I say villages can be urbanized if you have the basics around villages infrastructure then those villages can become urbanized cities and therefore you do not have to have reverse migration rather than people coming into cities and making a mess of cities okay go ahead good afternoon I am Gaurav Gugoy, Member of parliament from Sam, and this is my question to the Honorable Chief Minister traditionally we look upon as architects of urban planning we look towards Luthians or Corbacea but I am confident in the future generations as architects of urban planning we look towards you sir because of course as you have done with cyberabad and now you will be a success but what is your advice towards smaller states with lesser resources and lesser access to wealth as to how do they plan, design and finance new cities being from a even in your case you started saying that your access to finance was limited you had to buy upon land pooling you know how can we do that in terms of financing new cities in more backward regions such as eastern and north eastern India good question actually yeah I will take just one more question can I just take it from here and then I will need to yeah just quickly please because I need to wrap it up so my question is building upon what Mr Bajaj had asked about de-urbanization and developing more villages is the central and state government you know we are doing this with certain cities certain cities but what about the disproportionate economic growth more towards the cities which Mr Khan mentioned are turning into you know literally garbage bins so how does the central and the state government or rather the central planning body and the state government look at the problem so what's your perspective on that alright so let's go to the answers and we'll start with the public procurement system and if I may start with the anecdote which I heard in the corridors of power yesterday and every time you guys make this argument about choose the higher bidder remember we made the Mars mission at 75 million dollars Americans did at 750 million dollars so we know best so don't tell us that we have to choose the highest because we did it at 75 million dollars now please tell us how does that change the metrics of success as we go along and do the best quality stuff see I have you know I've done several initiatives starting from God's own country campaign in Kerala I've been working on incredible India making India and I've let me tell you I've never worked on L1 never in my career I've never worked on the lowest cost and I you know I went and actually discussed this with the CAG and what the CAG told me was that what the government wants you to do is to you know I mean if I was to design a campaign where I say that my painting will be compared with MF Hussain's painting it's absurd you know I'll sell it at creative director so actually that file went up to the finance minister when I was doing the incredible India campaign the FA opposed me on this I was then the joint secretary the financial advisor opposed me and I went and discussed this and what the government wants you to do is to follow a transparent competitive process it doesn't say buy at the lowest cost you're not buying pens you're not buying cups you're creating a city you are making you have to have a vision of a city you are doing new urbanization you are changing the shape of India and therefore you need to work with the best people the brightest people of the world who have the experience and therefore lay that principle down in your RFP RFQ select the best in the world give out a reasoned argument if you do that in your RFP RFQ what did one just lay down a transparent competitive process and select the best people and that's what I've always believed in my life and I've had never any problem and give out a reasoned argument on that if you can touch upon that as well as the consultant model that everybody talked about plus decentralized urbanization as he rightly mentioned there is what he said is right you want to get quality you have to go to the best among best you can select that is different issue under the same time even today in the name of public interest litigation some of the people are not understanding all these things they are blocking they are creating some problems ultimately project will suffer that is one issue that is how to overcome we have to overcome in course of time even sometimes a switch challenge even you go transparent way also they are challenging even capacities even media will write something without understanding I'm sorry to say this even at lower level also they don't have on all so many subjects that is another important issue as he rightly mentioned urban and rural if you give rural infrastructure also people will stay to certain extent migration is inevitable for employment for iron come generally that is the trend if you if I am in my village I should have done some agriculture then I became MLA I shifted to Hyderabad then naturally Hyderabad is better place for exposure I got knowledge skills everything then I build my career same thing if you go to Bombay you will have better exposure compared to Hyderabad if you go to New York Washington you will have old exposure this is the reality so both rural area we have to create infrastructure there is no doubt about it people are living there under the same time urban area also migration is inevitable because of connectivity because of access because of knowledge because of opportunities so many things so we have to work together both as you rightly mentioned money yes it is very very important for anything how we are all doing so many of you when I entrepreneur I will start nowadays start up innovate ideas what is their big idea in Amazon.com what is their big idea in Uber Flipkart latest trends they are able to capture process they are able to do well then ultimately over a period of time they are emerging as leaders same thing in politics same thing in leadership if you provide all these things even a sum will become one of the most beautiful place greenery and also water everything is available in Assam even some of the states what Tamil Nadu they don't have water they don't have mineral wealth but they built one of the best city best state over a period of time what is Singapore you go to Singapore is there any asset even earth they are importing water they are importing even used water they are converting PM is drinking the water by saying new water is promoting they have done what is Dubai 55 degrees temperature desert they made it heaven they are using sea even they are considered one of the best hotels in sea if you go to beach our people won't allow social activity will come they won't allow to go to that beach but in turn we are polluting the sea we are leaving all our affluence to the sea this is where I am saying attitude will change leadership if you give we can do wonders interesting that you say that efficiency of start-ups in leadership I will remember that quote Mr. Nadu Mr. Kanth just to go back to the urban rule thing there is a government scheme called Pura provision of urban amenities in rural area so can I just shed a little more light is that the solution to the migration from an aspirational point of view Mr. Nadu said we must understand that cities are centers of creativity they are centers of innovation they are centers of growth cities occupy just 3% of the earth land mass but they generate 76% of the global GDP comes from cities if 76% of the global GDP is coming from 3% of the earth land mass these are cities and therefore cities are attractive because they create jobs they create a certain level of dynamism they create a certain working environment where creativity is flourishing arts, art, innovation, dynamism all is happening in cities and therefore Indian cities have to be have to capture that and Indian cities must become that vibrant dynamism you will never be able to provide that if that was the process this would have happened in many other parts of the world as well that rural areas you will do this but you need to provide better infrastructure better quality of life as the CM has said in rural areas as well and that is what Pura is designed for but essentially we must understand that our process of urbanization has just begun and we need to learn from all the lessons of the world to create the most innovative the most sustainable cities in the world China has done urbanization but China has made a lot of mistakes it's copied the American model and made a lot of mistakes they've created polluting cities India can't afford that if India makes those mistakes for India to make those mistakes you need four planet earth but you have only one planet earth and so India must create the most sustainable and the most innovative cities in the world which can then become a model for European and American cities as well I have time for one or two questions at best yes sir you wanted to ask a question can you get the mic in the front yes ma'am my name is Sudhir from Thompson Reuters Mr Khan we are talking about 100 smart cities now if you really see it will take three years five years before anything really concrete comes I am using a term lawlessness to lawfulness can we drive an initiative like this and we can say that we identified 10 things which are contributing to smart cities and the evils in today's cities and we say anybody who is going for smart city must do these 10 things even today now this could be just to you know smart city encroachment policy smart city parking policy we take this very basic trust me by the time this is I believe and I want to have your views by the time smart city actually will come up because today Delhi's pollution we figured out the vehicles pollution vehicles were causing very little percentage it is other factors who are causing pollution so can we look at some of this thing and I am calling a term called lawlessness to lawfulness I will come to you one second Mr Khan lady at the back please one and that is the final question for the session I am from GPB in Prand a global shaper from Chandigarh my question is since we are talking about smart cities and the nine modules that I have read about the smart city project they talk about technology and when they talk about technology they talk about digitization of water system sea weight system and stuff and stuff but they do not talk about technology in infrastructure field we are still following the conventional building processes we are still doing one year long building thing we are not getting into prefab primarily we are not making it compulsory what we are talking in terms of technology for smart city is only digitization Mr Khan start with you what is the lawlessness to lawfulness and how that can be built into the smart city initiatives actually one of the best things that happened was that when smart cities were selected they went through a challenge process and that the prime minister was very determined to do so his own constituency was not selected Varanasi was selected in the third round in the last round but it went through a huge process of challenge and every city had to do several rounds of participation with its citizens to get selected and prepare a plan it was one of the most exhaustive processes of challenges as you know it was initiated by Mayor Bloomberg earlier which has been replicated but it was one of the most exhaustive processes and it required a huge amount of hard work I think CM will dwell on this but it required a huge amount of hard work it required citizens to participate and that's all so you can call it lawlessness to lawfulness or whatever all these cities have been through a process of challenge it's not that you've just awarded a smart city they've been through almost one year of hard work on this, they've said that they committed to this, this, this, this not one but hundred things Mr. Nairu Yeah, as you rightly mentioned that is the answer for you smart city that is a very good initiative at least we are all focusing on smart cities anybody wanted to compete naturally they had to go that process that process is public consultations regularly opinion taking and then improvement further then only they are eligible so both answers will be given in this they are not only technology technology is only a tool in a computer if you put garbage garbage will come no quality data or quality to things won't come we must know how to use technology for overall well-being or betterment that is where we are all now alright I'll take this opportunity to try and wrap this discussion up by starting to ask Mr. Nairu first one thing which I did not hear in this conversation was about this whole housing initiatives housing for all whether it's rich or poor and where does that feature and combined with that what we heard this afternoon in terms of prioritization if you would say building a green field city this is my biggest challenge what would that be and secondly where does housing fit into your larger scheme of things and affordability of that housing generally what we are doing in housing compared to rural housing urban housing urbanization urban housing now government of India is giving 150,000 rupees for each house government of Andhra Pradesh is giving equal amount 150,000 we are giving 60 3 lakh rupees for each house for beneficiary and also those we are having land will give this land for developer developer will prepare everything will compete what is the facility will give for the beneficiary poor people on the base of that we are creating township number one model number two same amount of money will give private developer is having land you will develop LIG, MIG, HIG in that you will give our share for 3 lakh rupees if I pay for each unit you will give me back both mixed third one we are doing interest subvention scheme 230,000 there also eligible people will ask them to go developer will develop will give all permissions everything and also you will give that number of houses, units for the poor even slums Bombay model we are taking up 230,000 rupees government of India will give or otherwise will give some money will ask developer to share their profit between the two that means developer and beneficiary slum improvement clear these are all the various models we are working I am confident it will work very well single biggest challenge as you make cities and engines of growth no it is a inevitable but only problem is we have to prepare continuously technology is a big tool but motivation is the biggest exercise if you do something today if you leave again it will come back to square even that is why we are very cautious we are involving students in a big way every Saturday afternoon I ask my people everybody should discuss debate or prepare some literature and also go to field tour your office make your office clean plant some trees protect the trees and also water conservation every month one day everybody should go to field talk to people, motivate people door to door campaign everything they have to do it is the exercise they have started then naturally over a period of time I am creating some competitions some awards even after some time I may go some small punishment that would be interesting after preparation otherwise if you do in the initial stage total purpose will be then demotivation becomes but Mr Khan just to wrap this up what you heard this afternoon what comes across to you as one of the biggest challenge you named a chief minister saying that he is the cause of all the problems there are issues like center state what according to you will be the biggest road block to make cities and engines of growth one is you know the kind of political will which CM Andhra has demonstrated in he did this in Hyderabad and then he is doing this in his new city of Amravati I think you need every chief minister to have that political will to urbanize India to grow at 9 to 10% for 3 decades or more it will not happen without very unique innovative and sustainable urbanization urbanization holds the key to India's growth and that requires huge amount of political will because India's political class comes from rural areas till 5 years back we did not even have an urban scheme the JNURRM was the first urban scheme for the first 60 years of our independence we had no urban scheme and that is why we kept investing all our resources into rural areas and the rural areas kept getting poorer and poorer so you need very determined political will to drive urbanization in India and once you got that political will you need very good planning very good detailed engineering and when you are doing new cities first create the layers of infrastructure don't get into speedy don't rush up under pressure from journalists like you just to be politically correct laying the layers of infrastructure is the key because once you laid out top class infrastructure the rest is easy game it will take off on it's own because we create we do a lot of things without doing the basics right the crux is good infrastructure thank god I'm no longer active journalist otherwise I wouldn't have had it this afternoon but on that note let me wrap up by pointing out 3 important things I heard from both of you first from the chief minister and I do it's really heartening to hear somebody say that technology and internet of things is a deadly combination I wish more state chief ministers talk like you because that shows a great move ahead at least you are preparing for the future second about the change in attitude of citizens and of course knowledge and not facetious journalism which kind of questions everything just for the sake of it that's very important and third which I think again was a very cool thing to hear is whatever Flipkart, Amazon and everything is doing to basic services if leadership does that there will be far more efficiency and far better delivery of service from the government so thank you for making those points Mr. Amitabh Kant without bashing journalists up political will you bashed politicians a bit but political will most important movement to cities and attraction of cities is inevitable so you can't stay away from that and what is the most important answer to your question is as long as you keep the processes transparent you can go for the best even if it is the most expensive thank you both for joining us and thank you to the audience for joining us