 Welcome to the After Hours podcast, hosted by Harry Haas and James Friedlender, presented by My Investing Club. What's going on guys? We are back with another episode of the After Hours podcast. Today we have a very special guest, our nobi who is a member in MIC. So what's up dude? Thank you for coming on. Hey man, what's up? Glad to be here guys. Of course, of course. We love getting to meet all the new members and it's kind of cool. We're getting a lot of episodes in now so it's like you guys are really getting to see a ton of our members and just eventually we're gonna have to go back around and reintroduce so anyways. But so what's going on man? We wanted to talk, how did you find trading and then how did you eventually kind of get into MIC? Kind of run us through your career so far. Yeah, yeah, sure. So like you said, my names are nobi. I've been with you guys now for a year, maybe a year and a half, pretty quiet, you know, I'm just trying to learn and not really posting too much because I feel like I really don't have anything genuine to add right now so I'm pretty quiet and it's sidelines but I got into trading. Man, I wanted to get into it when I was in college and I really, I've thought about it for a long time and but I have that typical kind of immigrant family story. You know, we came up poor, work fully hard but didn't have a lot of money to do anything with. So what I wanted to do out of college was real estate and trading, some type of way. I knew I wanted to do it but I didn't know how and I didn't have the money. So fast forward a little bit, I bought a couple of houses, I got my real estate license, I made a little bit of money selling and flipping my first house and with that money then I started dabbling a little more into trading. I opened up a $5,000 account first with I think it was Interactive Brokers. And yeah, after that, I just kind of got another account, another $5,000 account. You got, you know, everything that I did was basically what you guys kept advising or mentioning like, hey, you got two accounts so you could do more trading, more shorting and that's primarily what I do shorting. And so yeah, so recently I moved up to my full account with Cold Bro. Oh, awesome. Yeah, that's kind of, well, I didn't trade my way there. I don't want to say that I went from five to 30 or anything like that, but... Most people don't, bro, most people don't. Yeah, exactly. So I mean, I invested a little bit, you can say like in 2017, a little Bitcoin and that actually went really well for me. When I didn't catch the top or anything, it was falling and I saw it go to 20. And when it came back down to the eight and seven I started buying a little bit, buying a little bit. And when it took off, that gave me more money to pull out and then start my big account and really commit a little more to trading. That's pretty cool, dude. I feel like, I mean, I don't want to like go off on the PDT rant, but like, I feel like people are always like embarrassed and like, oh, I funded it, I didn't trade to it. And it's like, to actually trade your account over PDT is like really fucking hard. Any time, it's not impossible. You know, I think certain market sentiments are like better for that and you can do it. But like the reality is like the three day trade thing is fucking hard. So it's like, you know, I wasn't getting there. Dude, I always tell people like, you know, and this is not financial advice whatsoever. But I'm like, you know, it's just, if you from the beginning can fund your account to like 30, which sounds like a lot of some people, but a lot of people have that. It's like, you fund your account and you set max losses. Like you're probably gonna lose less money long term than like when you're under PDT. Because I remember being under PDT, I was so stressed. I would take bad trades because like, I just needed to trade. I wouldn't cut myself off because I knew I couldn't trade for a week. And like that whole five day rolling period. The amount of times I got like margin call, like my broker was like, you have to fund money. I'm like, fuck, I have to close this one now and go open somewhere else. Cause I did four trades in a week because I was like, I didn't fucking get it. It was not true, I got lucky. I also was growing during like a really easy time. Like I swear, like the market back then was so different. Like, Harry, you remember like 2017, 2018, like stocks, you'd wake up in stocks would literally just fail. Yeah, literally, literally in that time period, like if you went through the filings and found that a stock had like a big ATM or something like that, there was like so little volume that you'd be like, all right, confirmed all day fader boys, let's go. Yeah. And like, if a stock traded 10 million shares in a day, it was like, this thing's a fucking runner. Now stocks trade 10 million shares before they open. You're like, man, it's changed so much. But see, anyways, that's how you can get off on a tangent on PDT ship. But anyway, so where are you in your trading now? So like, kind of, are you doing well or what's working well for you, where you're struggling kind of runs through that. Yeah, yeah, that's a great question for me right now because so going back to how I transitioned, I started doing well with my $2,000, $5,000 accounts actually. My risk management was going well. I was just shorting small caps. And I started dabbling with large caps. I was always interested in large caps, right? That was the first thing I started investing in in Robinhood when, you know, when Roblohood came out, I opened up an account because I didn't have a lot of money. So I opened up with I think a thousand or $2,000. And I put it into a couple of large cap stocks. So cool. So I started dabbling with those large caps again and I found some success. And I was even gonna like write a post an after hours. Like I was telling all my tabs like, oh, will you just wait and see? I was on a run, dude. I think I made like 10, which for me, 10,000 in a month. Yeah. That's great, yeah. That's better for 99% of traders, dude. More money than I, you know, more money than any other little thing has given me, right? So I was like, wow, I'm really on to something. And then I made the switch from the interactive brokers, the small accounts to the big account. And I also set a max broker loss at $500. And I thought, okay, this is the beginning of my real career. And then I started hitting that max loss like a champ, like hitting for two weeks straight, just back to back. And so it really threw me off. I gave back a lot of those gains, you know, those 10,000 that I had made the previous month. I think this was like November, December. And so going into this year, and I've been up and down and that's kind of where I'm at now. I've been talking to a lot of traders. I've been talking to some of the mods, you know, my tabs, I talked the two-way about it. And yeah, I've just been working on sizing down and trying to take it a little bit slower. I think I got ahead of myself. I got really hyped up with that big money that I saw. And I thought, man, I'm gonna take this $1,000 days all the way now and smack me pretty hard in the face. Yeah. Yeah, I think that that is a big struggle that we talked to a lot of people about. Because like James and I have really, like I mean, in the past like six months done a ton of interviews and talked to a lot of people. And that's a big struggle is like, you get, you progress like a little bit. And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, I'm a trader now, I'm a this, I'm a that. And you get overeager and you size too much and you really start to deviate away from the process. Like, if you look at how you got there, nine times out of 10, it was like, you know, trades where the top was set or trades like where you kind of knew like kind of like, you almost like have a good thesis behind it. You know, like you can say the top was set. I know a ton of people who were long were trapped. Maybe it was like under view app or at least kind of close to it. Like you have a like a lot of like pieces to kind of paint whereas like once you kind of, you know, get a little like, should I say like loose or cocky on the rules, you know, you're like, oh, like, and this happens to a lot of people where they're like, oh, well, it's a shit small cap. So I can go short here or oh, it's a shit. So I can keep adding, adding, adding, adding, adding. And you kind of get too eager and you size of it too much. And that's where you kind of get into trouble, you know? Yeah. I don't know, I don't know much. I don't pretend to know a million everything. But one of the biggest things I know is like the second you feel confident in cocky and trading, you generally are about to get like, fuck. Like it's like, it's not when you're like trading well, like you're trading well and you're confident in your trading is different. But once you feel like you have figured out, you're like, this is the start. Cause I've been there. This is the beginning of my like, my fucking, like Jesse Livermore career. That's usually about the time you're about to take like max loss after max loss. That's it dude. And it's tough cause I mean, you know, especially, I think a lot of people, and I have this theory that every, when you start out in the beginning, it's easier to make money because you have so much less understanding of like how far the money can go in trading too. Cause like when I was new, I like, I was using size that I like didn't even understand. Like I would speak, oh, like what is like 5,000 shares? I'm like a $3,000 account. I'm like, what's the worst that's going to happen? But like now that you know that you're like, then that's when I don't want to say a fear, but like the reality sets in like, this is serious. You could lose a lot of money. You could fuck yourself over. But like when you're new, it's like I hear stories all the time. People are like, oh yeah, my first six months, I may have like a hundred grand and then now I'm down 200 grand. So it's like, it's not easy, you know? And it's, it's just funny. Like that's, it's the market's way and you're not alone dude. Most people go down this path. They have that, those moments of clarity. They're like, this is it, this is it. And then like now it's just finding footing. And like again, sometimes going from being under PDT to over PDT is like a little bit of a mental jump because it's like you're used to trading under a certain way. And you kind of do have to change and you change because now you're like, oh wait, I can change a billion times. My first day over PDT, I think I placed like over 200 trades. Cause I was just like, I was like, I was like a machine gun bra. I was like, and I probably ended the day red. I didn't fucking remember to be honest with you, but it's another thing that I'm frustrated with now is it's sort of along those lines. Like I kind of lost sense of like what $100 is. I can't tell you how many times I've in the past, I don't know, two months or something, just looked at five or $800 and I wanted more. And this is not the market really to be doing that really. And I've given it all back. I've given it back and then some. And that's the most frustrating thing to me. So I think I'm struggling more with like the mental side of it that I'm frustrated with myself. Cause I'm like, dude, you never looked at $200 or $300 like with, you know, like, I could go for more, like appreciate that a little bit. Like you got that in 10 minutes, dude, get out of it. And I, you know, so I'm struggling with that. Yeah. I think also as far as like market sentiment goes is like, if you're like a, let's say, let's say like just to keep things easy. Let's say you're like an all day fader guy, you know, that's your main strategy. And see a lot of people when they're first kind of starting, they, they, I think like the trap that a lot of people fall into, like not necessarily you, but like you kind of start building a strategy around the current market sentiment, you know? So as let's say, let's say all day faders are hot, right? You know, there was a time even like in the last, like I'd say three months where you could just go short at the open and you were good on it. Nope. Like, and like the stocks were like not really strong and they were weak. But once the market cycle kind of turns a little bit, a lot of people kind of fail to adapt. And that's why I think so many new people make a lot of money. Cause like, they're like, like brand new people come into the market and they're like, oh man, like look at that breakout. Like how are you not making money off that six months ago? And they're like, oh, what an idiot, this guy. And they're like, oh man, I'm long in the breakout. And they do that for like two, three weeks. Then all of a sudden breakout stopped working for like an entire year. And people are like, what the fuck, you know? Same thing with all day faders where there's like, yeah, all day faders. It's like people like see a bunch of all day faders. They adjust, adjust, adjust. They're like, I'm ready for the faders, bro. I'm ready for the faders. And now there's no fucking faders. And all that work they had just done was based on a prior market sentiment, right? And then they start forcing or, you know, this looks like it and start taking it on the chin. They either start forcing or, so you really need, there's two things that you can do with that. Like number one is like, there's the key MIC strategies that work every single day. But also like if your mindset is like, I'm not going to do that MIC process and I'm going to like venture somewhere else, then, you know, you can get in some trouble where you either have to just not trade every day and be okay with not trading every day or, you know, maybe getting wrapped following that whatever system it is you have every day, you know? Harry, you posted a picture about this like recently. It was kind of saying like that your strategy, it was like your strategy in the middle. And then it was like times where it's hot and it's like, those are great. And it was like times where it's like kind of working and then times where you're like, it's not working at all. And like that just unfortunately is strategy. Like not even the MIC strategy is very simplistic and it works. In my opinion, it works in every market cycle, but there are market cycles where it is way harder. Like I know, I can always tell when it changes because it's usually when Alex will take like a loss, when it's like that crazy like big runner start coming in like that initial transition for like scalping line to line, it gets fucking tough. So it's like every strategy is going to have, it's like somewhere that like the holes are poked in it, but it's just all that matters, right? It's like risk management and all that stuff. So it's like, it is tough. It's fucking tough. And as far as like the mental thing that you were kind of saying, like the money thing's funny. Like, and I wanted to bring this up because like lately my girlfriend and I will get these dumb fights about this where like, like for example, like I lost like 10 bucks on the trip. She's like, you just lost 10 bucks is like, I don't fucking care. It's $10. Like I don't care. And you're just, and she's like, what is wrong with you? And I'm like, I don't, like you just, you do, you lose mentally like the value of like money, especially nowadays do with locates as a short seller. Like I'm starting off my days like down 500 bucks. Like that is psychotic shit. That's crazy. It is. You guys are fucked specimen. It is fucked. Like Bear and I laughed about all the time. We're like, oh, we're, we're red 500, 600 bucks. He's breaking figure. I'm like, how do we do this and why? But in the problem is we do, we, we've just lost that, that mindset of like how far money can go. And like, I know like Ty, who's a, or Tay. How do you, was it Tay, Ty? Yeah, mama Tay, mama grandma or fucking it. One of the mods at MIC is an amazing woman, but she's always shitting on me because I go out a lot. And it's kind of like, I go out to get steaks and stuff because like that does really remind me of how much like money can go, how far it can go. Like items and shit, whatever. But like when it comes to like trading, like if I make like $1,000 in a day, and it's like, I have that itch to be like, wow dude, you should be up $2,000 or bigger or bigger. It's kind of like, well, that $1,000 is like four steak, six steak dinners. Like it's like really, really good night out. Like a full, it's crazy. I got in a similar, I got in a similar situation where I had made like around a grand, it was like around a grand, but like I had like kind of planned to sell like a lot higher. But like, for example, I bought at like four bucks, sold at like 450, 460 area. I didn't really have that much size on, made a grand. And you know, but my plan was like to sell like definitely a lot higher. And like, you couldn't really size under this one. So I was like, I'll just take like a couple thousand shares and like that's fine. And so I ended up selling 450, that's great. Stock ends up going to like 650 on this day. And I was so pissed for the whole day. And my girlfriend was like, yeah, but you still made a grand like who cares? And I was like, that's fucking bullshit. I was like, no, that's fucking shit. You don't get it. You don't get it, $1,000. What is that? Yeah, but maybe kind of going back, maybe you could kind of talk about like your strategies and kind of like what you're struggling with. Cause James and I, when we talked about doing these podcasts with like people who are like struggling or like on the cusp of like kind of like just kind of getting there. Maybe you could kind of talk about like strategies and James and I could like give you some advice on how to get better. Yeah, yeah, sure. That might be a good term. I mean, I mainly do like low hanging fruit for small caps. I stick with low hanging fruit or first resistance, taking them at VWOP. That's mainly what I focus on when I'm, or you know, hitting outer lines, hitting that high a day and giving it a little bit of room above that. So, but what I think I'm struggling with most is discipline, honestly. It's knowing like what you guys were saying about market sentiment and knowing that if things are slow, I don't have to trade. Honestly, I don't think I've not traded a day. Even when I know that I shouldn't trade, I still, I feel like I'm there. You know, I see maybe someone in the chat taking some trades and I'm like, okay, I missed those. Let me look for some. And that's where I think I'm getting in trouble, just kind of not having to discipline the patients to really wait for the outermost line. Maybe I'm inpatient and I take an inner line and then I get squeezed. And instead of being disciplined and maybe stopping where I said I would stop, I'll give it a little more room or I'll add at the outer line now. And now if it squeezes past the outer line, I'm in big trouble. And I hit my max loss. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I definitely have some advice on that. Sure. Yeah, please. So I think as far as let's say, let's say there's like, so as far as kind of first resistance goes, I think for me, like, we review a lot of charts in weekend mentoring. And like a lot of people with the whole first resistance thing is like, they don't really take into account where the stop is opening up. And like, I'm not saying that this is you, but like, this is like a big problem I've been seeing. Cause like when you deal with like the weekend mentoring for like almost two years now, like you kind of see the same shit over and over and over again, right? So as far as first resistance goes, if it's a really, really broken stock and like we're opening up under view app, the first place I would want to get short would be the first line that's like overview app. And the reason is, is because like recently I've just been seeing that that little bit overview app and that little line overview app has been the time where you'll get a lot of like kind of excess supply, right? It's a really good area to trap the longs who are buying that view app replaying. It's a really good area to have a lot of people who are short underneath view app kind of stop out in that area. That's one area that I've seen that's worked really, really, really well. Now, if the stock is opening up at view app or around view app, you gotta wait for the most outer line, right? You gotta wait for the most outer line. That's what I've been seeing. 100% all the time. If we're opening up kind of near view app around view app, you gotta always wait for that kind of outer line. So take into account every day like how far away is the stock for view app, right? Same thing on low hang fruit. Like if low hang fruit is super, super below view app, you wanna get short a little bit above view app to just test the waters. That's where I would want to get short. My first bullets, right? Saying to myself, I think dumb longs are gonna chase here, shorts are gonna be stopping out using view app as rest. That would be a good liquidity area for me to wanna get into a position short, right? And that's kind of been what I've been seeing in that kind of situation where a lot of people will short the broken stock and get short too early. And then by the time that blows them out, the real move happens and I'm like, fuck, what did I do? But it's really just, right? Beyond, yeah, the timing aspect. And I feel like that's tied to the discipline aspect, like the not having the patience or the discipline to wait for that line. Yeah, and you gotta be saying like, for me to want to get short, like what's the edge that I have, you know? Like for me, going short on a line is like a reason to go short for sure. But if you can like pair that line with like what I just said, where like I think longs are chasing into this like quote unquote little breakout level, I think that a lot of shorts are gonna be stopping out overview app. You know, you're pairing up multiple ideas now with that one area rather than just saying, like maybe it's a whole or half dollar number up there as well, right? Now you have so much more to paint that picture, whereas if you're just like, oh, I'm going short on a line because it's a line, like that's a lot less than having this bigger picture idea, right? Yeah, yeah, definitely. My big thing with discipline, so I have two things. So one, I've kind of grown into this like trader lately. I've been talking a lot with like, make even better about this and stuff and just the thing is now, like I almost don't want to trade every day. That's kind of how my personality has shifted. Like, and that's how I keep myself disciplined to trade kind of like how I'm trading right now. I basically approach every day like, I don't want to risk my money. Like I know how much capital I have. Like I'm not here to gamble. I'm not here to just trade to trade because like if you're coming to the market just to like trade anything, that's when you go on to like the gambling, like little like meter and it's like you're starting to go towards being a gambler because that's the point. You're supposed to only trade when you have an edge. So on the days now where like I find myself like really like there's just no setups, which is happening a lot. Like it does happen and that's okay because the day that there are setups, you're making that much more, et cetera, whatever. But I just have started like kind of doing this thing where like I'll actually start looking at large caps not to trade but to invest, like to buy something. Like I have a lot of long-term investments that like I really like and pay attention. I'm trying to get better understanding like macro ideas. So like those are the days where like I pretty much shut down small caps and I just like I always will scoop up something in large caps. Like there doesn't really go, there's not really many days that go by that I don't have some involvement with the market, but I just try to get that each out in another educated, disciplined way. And once I started adapting that idea, it made not trading easy. It almost made, like I said, it made it like you don't want to trade unless there's an opportunity. Like Harry for a long time, like I feel like Harry wasn't trading that much during the dead market because why would he risk his money? Like it just wasn't that much. Like until the opportunity comes, that's worth losing whatever you're worth, whatever you're okay losing on a setup and you're not gonna touch anything. And then as far as like actually like on the chart, the it's funny, like everyone wants to like, no one wants to do this stuff because it is hard, but a way to fix it really is the shorting it's fantasy orders at your best line. Like once you like start looking at charts and I, all I used to do was I would print out Alex's charts, Bao's charts, et cetera, and just recognize where the stock turned on a bigger scale, like even on a five minute or whatever, like just as long as it correlated with a line on the chart that made sense, I started paying attention to that and I just started setting fantasy orders for that level and you would be shocked how many times nowadays too because a lot of how I trade now you do use fantasy orders more. A lot of times I just set an order and I'm like, that's never gonna fail, like, but it's the perfect area for me to get in. And it's insane how many times it actually does get to your line. Like these lines are magnets just like Bao says, like the stocks tend to go to them. So it really comes to just setting fantasy orders and like setting hard stops because once you set a hard stop, I like my thing now is like, once I get into position, if I'm in, I actually get up and like walk away for a minute because I'm like, I'm in, I have an automatic hard stop that's placed when I like fail kind of thing. And what am I gonna do? You know, like I don't wanna be the guy that's just adding, adding, adding, adding because that's not a real edge. That's like, that's very hard for people to do. Bao can get away with it. Bao can do that because Bao is so disciplined at scaling in and scaling out but a lot of people can't do that. It's very hard, very hard for like the average guy to like size accordingly and not fuck himself over being too early kind of thing. So you kind of have to determine like, do I wanna be that guy that's just adding, adding, adding and hoping the stock turns or are you making an educated guess on the chart where the stock realistically should top out with a risk that you can take if it doesn't, if it continues to go. So that was kind of like, those things have changed my trading a lot, especially this year. And I know I think those are very helpful. I also think that there's something to be said for saying to yourself like, okay, I'm just going to wait till the stock kind of gets overextended. And I know that the top is set for sure. Like I feel like every single person knows what the top is set. Like you shouldn't be arguing with the guy next to you on whether the top is set or not, right? Both of you should be at a mutual consensus. Like all three of us can look at a chart and if anyone is saying anything like, I don't know or oh, maybe not, top is not set, right? Everyone here would come to the same consensus of going, oh, that's fucked. Like we would be watching a ticker, all three of us right now, thing goes para. And then all of a sudden we get that candle and James and I would just look at each other, you two and we'd be like, well, that's fucking dumb. Like that, right? And so there's something to be said for waiting for those moments and just enacting that, right? That's another thing too. And there's really this kind of battle, I think, between like anticipation and confirmation, right? Because like anticipating is more of the prediction side, right? And a lot of people kind of do it where they're like, okay, I think this is what, like fantasy orders would be anticipation, right? I think this is where the stock is going to pop out. This is giving me the best lines. This is what I'm going to take. As far as the whole confirmation side goes, it would be just waiting for things to be done and waiting for the top of set, you know? So I think you really need to kind of differentiate between, do I want to be more of an anticipation trader with a lot tighter risk? Or do I want to be a confirmation trader with like maybe a little bit less size, a little bit more type of risk? And you really need to define that for yourself because when you find out your personality, because a lot of people need that confirmation on the top of set. And that's why fantasy orders don't work for them is because they need that confirmation. And if you just say, you know, I need this confirmation in my trading, that that's the type of situation that I need. You know, a lot of those people kind of find peace, you know, and they just wait until the top of set, sure, and then that's what they kind of do. So I think for a lot of people, you need to kind of define yourself as, okay, what type of trader am I? And now how am I going to attack based on my personality? And a lot of people they turn into a confirmation, but then they're like, oh, but I'm a gambler and they start to anticipate, right? That happens to a lot of people. You know, you got to say like, what's my personality and what has worked for me? Like I guarantee you could go back and look at that stretch when you made that 10 grand and go through the trades and go through every trade and be like, wow, that really worked for me. Now, a part of that will be the market sentiment, right? A part of that will be the situation that we were in. But I think also another part of that will be, you know, this is the way that my personality works in order for me to make money because me and you aren't different. Me and James aren't different. We're all different here. We all trade different ways. But in order for me, like for me, myself, I'm a bit more of an anticipation kind of guy, right? I like to have an idea, I like to put the trade on and I like to let it work and set my risk accordingly. That's what I like to do. But some people kind of need that stock to push up super high and they like to buy that kind of first bounce, which is kind of a confirmation strategy in itself as well, right? So you really need to kind of find the type of person you are to really maneuver, you know, your own trading plan and your own kind of setups in the market, right? I think that's great advice. Yeah, absolutely like the kind of stuff that I do need to figure out because you're right. If I think back to those months where I had that really good stretch, I think I was setting fantasy orders. I'm pretty sure that that's what I was doing. I was setting my order, setting the stop and I was done and I would walk away from the three tickers and if two of them hit or one of them hit, that's when I was hitting them with size because I knew my risk. And I think when I transitioned over, I started to go into like a more like, well, I'm going to handle this one trade at a time, tick by tick, and I got away from just setting it and forgetting it. And now I'm like just, you know, a guru-furu trying to hit it and it just didn't work. Yeah, so you need to, yeah. And I think that's what happens to a lot of people, right? You trade process and your confidence is really driven by your way to trade process, right? Yeah. So you get the confidence. And then the confidence meter fills up and then your eyes filled with dollar signs and then you're fucking adding, adding, adding, adding, and then you get fucked. And then, you know, right, that's what happens. So, and that is what happens, right? There's this kind of like pendulum in everyone's trading where they go from process to profits, right? And you really need to keep yourself in check and always humble yourself. Like I say every single day, like if I'm going to trade that's like half debatable, I'm like, okay, why are you taking this fucking trade? Like I'll even say it to myself. Like what are you doing? Like there's no way that this is even suitable. And that's a lot of these guys who start longing broken stocks fall into that trap as well, right? That is not a process fucking at all. But people want to make money. They don't see a good long situation. They start forcing. It's that really forcing, right? You go and like you could have had a day where like three of your fantasy orders didn't hit, right? Or maybe you went through one or two days where, you know, your fantasy orders didn't hit and you're like, hmm, like I gotta change something or I gotta do something different, right? And then you get in that meddling situation where you go a little lower and then you go a little lower and then you're like, oh, and then you, and that's what really kind of screws you up, you know? So I go back to the kind of, you know, business plan, fantasy order. I'm an algo type of trading, you know? If you're just saying to yourself, like all I am is a risk manager, right? I have my fantasy orders here. This is what I'm going to do. This is my plan for the day. And just wait for those to hit and then kind of cover those support levels. That would be process trading, right? But the whole like tick by tick, oh man, I saw a seller, I saw this, I saw that. Like half these guys don't even know what the fuck they're talking about. Now that I'm actually in a position to say this, like half these guys don't know what the fuck they are talking about. So in my opinion, I would just be the whole kind of process situation, process oriented trader and you will see the P&L correlate with that process, right? Yeah, yeah. Oh, of course, of course, man. And I think, again, it comes down to a lot of it is like without even knowing a little bit of ego too, like you just always feel like you're gonna beat the stock. You always feel like you're gonna be the guy that has a perfect chart, this, that, the other thing. And like Harry said, like once you're getting that meddling stage, like you're already fucked. Once you start like trying to change your process, like once you're like, oh, I'm gonna short here a little bit, you're already done because it's already kind of deviated from what you do. Like I had a really good conversation with a gentleman that works at a prop firm in New York and we were talking about how, you know, he trades like big size and his secret is like he doesn't short green candles like ever. Like he, like for him, he, if he's top ticking, he broke process. He needs to the top to be set, like kind of what we were saying earlier, like he needs to basically have a signal on his entry that is not guessing the top. And it's like having that mentality and like just kind of pushing away your ego can help push away that meddling idea of like, oh, like I'm just gonna, I'm gonna start shorting this tick because like Harry said that I saw a seller because VWAP should reject or because this had the other thing. And it's hard. It is hard to like not want to like quote unquote, like impose your will on like the stock. Like every time you're shorting, like you want to be like killing it, like kicking ass. And the reality is like nobody cares. Like the stock doesn't care. Like you shouldn't care. All you should care about your 500 shares. Like you're not gonna do dick to this stock. But you know what will is like when you get a good entry and a good exit, you're the one making money. Like the market has a funky way. I used to trade with Joe Kelly on the phone who's a head modded and I see it. And we used to talk all the time and just like the market has a funny way of like punishing people. And it's like the longer you do this, the more you realize like the guys who short early are the guys that Harry's selling into when they're covering the fucking, they're covering the damn top of the move that Harry's selling or the buyers that are buying the top are the ones that Alex is filling a fucking huge. Yeah. Massive. Fucking shit. Yeah. Like it is just that's how you have to look at this. It's always the guys that are too early, that are getting fucked. So if you ever feel like you're too early, you probably are like that's it. And it's hard to do and it's hard to take that kind of like opposite stance. But that's really the key to trading is like don't trade with everyone else. Like until the tides have completely shifted like and it's like an obvious long or obvious short and like it's just you know, you're on the right side. You can't trade with the massive. You can't do what everyone else is doing or else like you're probably wrong. You know, so it's not easy. It's not, but, but it's possible. You know, it is. And it's possible just again, fantasy stuff that Bow has preached for you. If you've always asked me like, like that, the friend of mine that joined them, I used to be like, I don't fuck this, but I was charts look like that. I'm like, dude, Bow is like, God loved the man. He's not fucking Albert Einstein. He's not like, he's not a trading Messiah. He's just disciplined to his process. And like that's why his charts have looked the same since like 2003 probably where you can put arrows on charts because he's just disciplined to the process that makes him money, you know? And he knows like he does get in early. So he sizes to that. And that's just again, take that kind of mindset. Take that like contrarian idea of like being against the masses. And I think you'll find a lot of help in your own trading. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think that's great. I think that's probably great note to end it. And you know, that was good. That was awesome. So thanks for coming on, bro. Yeah, I appreciate it, man. Thank you guys. Thank you for everything you guys do. I mean, I really do appreciate MIC. This was my first community that I joined. And you know, from the beginning, I just knew that like this is where I wanted to be. This is the kind of community that I wanted to learn from. So yeah, just continue learning. Yeah, be active, man. Don't ever hesitate to post, like ask questions and stuff, because honestly, best advice is like, I swear is close mouths, don't confide. People who don't ask, people who don't like kind of step up and like take advantage of like what we all have to offer. They're the guys that won't make it anywhere. So if you ever feel lost in anything, don't hesitate to reach out to either of us. Yeah, cool, man.