 You're welcome back. Well, Annex conversation is about what is really happening now. The campaigns have been flagged up by many of the political parties. We are in the campaign season from now till February 2023. So politicians will be standing before us and making promises most of which people say they have not been able to keep over the years. And so what is the way forward? And that's why we're being joined at this moment by a legal luminary by the name of Gide Onugo who is going to be talking to us. Whether we should, there are ways that we can hold our political leaders more accountable than we presently are doing. Mr. Gide, please, we are pleased to have you join us. Good morning and welcome to the run-up. Thank you very much. It's my pleasure to be here with you. A lot of schools of thought have come up to say that until we begin to hold political office holders accountable to the promises that, you know, they easily usually make during campaigns that development and progress and would continue to allude Nigeria. And what do you make of this idea? It's a very wonderful statement and absolutely correct. Well, let's start from this question. Who holds them accountable? I mean, basically and evidently too, Nigerians have not hidden their feelings about the absence of good governance in this nation. People have taken weeks, they have protests, different kinds of criticisms, but we need a system that we give us accountability, which is one of the, you know, the tenets of good governance. And this system, interestingly, resides in the government itself. And permit me to use the case of the United Kingdom. You saw that recently, Boris Johnson, the former prime minister, was edged out of office. That is accountability. And it was the system that made that possible. A system where some of the parliamentarians started resigning from office, irrespective of the fact that some of them were in the same party with him, claiming that this is not what we promised the people. But do we have such in Nigeria? So even when recently we've been having revelations that we are suffering from oil theft, that some have installed high-capacity facilities to steal our common wealth. You know, the next thing we had is that the law enforcement agencies that should help us to preserve some of the subject matter evidence and exhibits when to set the ship on fire. So is that a system controlled by the citizens or by the government? So I am of the position that we have not been able to establish a system that we ensure accountability. And when you talk about the tenets of good governance, you have transparency, you have integrity, you have respect for the rule of law. And you have responsiveness to the yenings of the people. You know, you have effectiveness and efficiency. And of course, absence of corruption and wrongdoing. And permit me to quote section 15, subsection 5 of the Nigerian Constitution, 1919, as amended. It says that the states shall abolish all corrupt practices and abuse of office. So that's the system we are talking about. So when we make reference to the state, they're still making reference to the government. So what kind of government system do we have in the nation? Is it a government that is permissive to corruption or a government that France had corruption? Look at insecurity, for instance. We need a system that we grant several tolerance for kidnapping and ransom taking and the killings in the country. And in comparison, even in West Africa, the other time, the headers were trying to terrorize Ghana. And an instruction was given that you shoot at sight, you know, and they had to plead to take their cows out of Ghana. That is a system that works. You see, and then when, at a point in time, there was an argument about population of ammunition, these ammunitions were brought in from Libya. I mean, that may be a correct statement to make. But why were they not taken to Rwanda? Why not to Ben-A-Republic? Why not to Ghana? Why Nigeria? So we are yet to establish a system that is cleansing in nature and that will set us in motion for development. Well, the worrisome thing is of all the things that you listed as being part of what could be called a system. Integrity seems to be the only thing lacking in Nigeria or at least one of the greatest things that are lacking in Nigeria. How do you go about repairing the integrity of people whose integrity doesn't mean anything to them? Because that is where we are right now. The laws people have argued are very good in Nigeria and every other thing has been put in place. But the respect to these laws and following due process is what is lacking and that boils down to integrity. How do we correct that? You know, for the purpose of an argument, it's all about leadership. You know, because the leader is expected to have a vision and to keep people in the direction of that vision. And brilliantly enough, when this current regime was coming into office, one of the key factors that persuaded people was that the president was a man of integrity. And being a man of integrity means you walk your talk, like you say, in public relations. So if the man of integrity promised to deal with insecurity and restore security, to deal with corruption and restore righteousness, and to revive the ill in the economy, and years down the line, he has not been able to do that. We need to find out what the true meaning of integrity is. And you see, some are quick to blame the citizens. And responding to such an approach to what we have in Nigeria, I want to ask what is the essence of leadership? If not to set the pace for an enhanced experience by the citizens to improve on the quality of life. After all, we have in section 14, subsection 2b of the Nigerian Consulate National Assembly, that the security and the welfare of the people should be the primary purpose of government. So if you are stepping into that office and walking with the MDAs and the citizens by extension, who have given you the mandate to deliver, then you must be seen to deliver on it. So it's not just about promises. You must promise and act on those promises. And if we bring it to the business environment, there is what we call requirements on investment. If I have invested to billionaire in a business, then maybe at the end of 12 months or 24 months, I need to sit down with those who are driving the processes that, hey, how far have we gone? And what is expected really is that there should be some profit. Even though there are other elements of business like growth, survival, you know, staff satisfaction and corporate social responsibility. But the key point here are returns on investment. And if today, for example, the total in-depth insert of Nigeria was about 12.12 trillion naira in 2015, if today it is 42.8 billion naira, then we should be worried, you see. And they, obviously... We seem to have lost the signal there, but we're hoping that we can get him back. Baistajide will be talking to us when we are able to re-establish that connection. But he said some things about the fact that citizens need to sit up as well and all that. But our laws, our laws, a lot of people even in the legal profession have argued that our laws are very good. And people who have also compared our laws, the laws of Nigeria to laws of other countries, say the laws are good. There's nothing wrong with them. But though a lot can still be done, because in every country, improvements can be done. Mr. Jide is back. Okay, Mr. Jide. Can you hear us? Yes. Earlier while you were talking, you said it boils down to leadership. And then when you went ahead and you kept talking and I could deduce that leadership probably might not be enough. If people in power are not able to bring this to the point where it is supposed to boil, what do you think the people can do differently? You know, I have had to talk about this several times and permit me to also bring an illustration. Travelling from Nigeria to New York City, we had a stopover in Abu Dhabi. Then from Abu Dhabi, we linked another aircraft to go to New York City. My sister, my brother, I did not even meet the pilots that flew the aircraft. But I met the air hostesses attending to us. And in an average flight, you have aeronautic engineers, you have at least about two pilots to support one another. It's not my business to now say I must see pilots before I enter the aircraft. There is somebody taking leadership as a captain, taking leadership of a safe flight from Nigeria to New York City. And that is what we are talking about. But he is not expected to walk alone. So and that is what I'm saying. But by and large, particularly in Africa, we have discovered that we have a central figure that is so powerful and may not be subject to control. I gave the case of the UK earlier. For instance, sometimes when you see the parliamentarians grilling this man in the house, you wonder that is he their house boy? He looks intimidated. Or can you say the same thing about our country? So you may find a system that has been shielded from people demanding accountability. Let me say, I quite agree with you. If you look at section 14 to section 16 of the Nigerian Constitutional Amendment and some key provisions there, if these provisions are implemented up to 40 percent, Nigeria may be the seventh richest country in the world. But they are not implemented. So who will take hold to accountability? Recently, contaminated fuel were imported into this country. Is it the role of geologists who go and prosecute those who imported them? Two are imported. Recently, these governments say that they have identified about 400 sponsors of Boku Haram. Am I the one to go and arrest them and bring them to justice? Is it not a system? We have over 40 law enforcement agencies. You see, now we are talking about oil debt. So these oil debts are spiritual beings from another planet. These are the issues. So we are yet to have a government structure. And when you have that government structure, it should be easy for people to move in the direction of being patriotic. I mean, we have examples around the world. In Singapore, you know, you may not just chew gum in your mouth and throw it anywhere. There's a system that forbids you that wants that environment to be clean. There are ways of doing business. Rwanda in Iceland, in Netherlands, the UK, in the USA, in Australia, in Canada. So things work. I mean, if there is a system that our leaders run to for Medicare, then something should tell them that we can also replicate the same in Nigeria. So, except we are now saying that government has no responsibility, then you are throwing it back to the people. And at that point in time, you should expect anything. Perhaps that is why we have lawlessness. I took the pain to find out what the definition of a bandit is. A bandit is an outlaw operating in a lawless environment. I will now say in Nigeria it's a lawless environment with all the documented laws that we have. So we are yet to put in place a system that runs. Amid me also to make reference to what happened most recently. The remaining captives during the attack of the train between Abudja and Khaduna were released. Thank God for that, for none of the kidnappers arrested. I mean, so who is that? Who is that? Who is that? Who? They have serious issues. It should not be so. The government should be sent to make laws and implement the laws. We have three arms of government. We have ministries. We have departments. We have agencies. And we have budgetary allocations for them all. So why are we where we are now as a people? Or are we now saying that those who steal our oil, for example, is a government on its own and they are untouchable? I mean, it should not be paraded about this nation at all. And that is why it's painful that the country that has the largest deposit of public gas in Africa is rated as one of the poorest in the world. It's not dumb. We'll have to get some more clarification on what you're saying. You're talking system. And obviously what you're calling from other nations is laws that have been put in place. You do this, you get this as the result. You do that, you get that as the result. We have the laws here. What do we really need? What's the root of the rot that we have here? What do we really need to do differently? Because the laws are there. So if the laws are there, what else is lacking? That's the major question we need to know and see how we can treat it. What we lack is to implement the laws. All right? If you have laws that you don't implement, it's as bad as not having laws at all. So how do we implement them? Because if they say, for instance, you are abandoned and you're caught, you're prosecuted, we have the police, we have the courts, we have every agency that is supposed to take charge of that. Why is it not being implemented? Or why are these laws not being implemented? That is a question that is really disturbing all of us. It's either because we have a weak system like I pointed out. Because the former president of South Africa just returned from jail, you have a similar scenario in South Korea. Even though the former president was pardoned, or he got jailed, there are no consequences for the life. We have not denied that some personalities imported contaminated fuel into this country. So how many of them have been arrested? All we have are deniers. But I'm no surprise. We didn't start yesterday. I mean, I love history so well. In 1977, when our president and commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces was the minister of petroleum resources, about $2.8 billion disappeared from NNPC account with land bank in the U.K., no head or tail of it. So if today we are talking about billions and billions of Naira stolen in crude oil, and the fact that our refineries are now working, and we spent about $100 billion to turn more foreign refineries around. And have you read recently that in Nigeria here, that it's yet to take us about $47 billion of our resources? And you must also have read that in 2023 budget, we may have to borrow about $8 trillion Naira to give it a support, a budget of about $20.5 trillion Naira, but with a projected revenue of $9 trillion Naira. So if you look at this, then it's either we have a visionless system or a weak system that cannot implement. Let me ask a simple question. If somebody imports contaminated for oil, a group of persons import contaminated food to China, what do you expect to see in that Chinese government? So these are issues. So where there are no consequences, people operate as they like. Recently, the go-between of the Bandis and the Dosepey ransom was detained in Egypt before he was brought back to Nigeria. So what has happened all this while in Nigeria? Was it that the government has been romancing Banditry? This is what these are issues. It appears by way of perception in publications that we are no serious about giving good governance its right appearance. And unless and until you embark on generating common wealth for common good and maximizing the potentials God has given you, then you end up in failure. So Nigeria is one of the most blessed countries in the world. So look at where we are today. So it's quite disturbing. So you need to implement. I mean, if you permit me to go scriptural, there's one popular scripture that we like to call Joshua 1A, that this book of the Lush are not depart from out of that mouth. You meditate there. But the key thing there is that you do according to all that is written. So if that do, we have brilliant laws in this country. I can let you know. Brilliant laws. And I'm challenging our audience now. Please after this program, spare some of your data and Google section 15 to 18 of the Nigerian constitution, and you see the great provisions to make this country great. But you cannot go through the government on that. It's not just a shape of life. Like we say, they won't say that you should be giving us happiness. The economy should be operated in a way that we have a self reliance economy that is not considered in the hand of you. So just quickly, Mr. Ajide, just quickly, because we are running out of time. Just finally, we are in the campaign season. And this is the time to really scrutinize and know who best fits the bill. So if you were given the opportunity to talk to Nigerians, what would you be telling them? What are the criteria to look out for in choosing the leaders that will lead us tomorrow? Just very briefly, sir. You know, basically look at someone that can give us the minus which is the economy. Someone that can turn our economy around. Someone that can unite the people because our mutual remains unity, faith, peace and focus. And someone that can return peace onto this nation so that we can enjoy the goodness of the Lord. Don't let religion or tribalism be your yoke still. I mean, we know the candidates. And interestingly, we know the antecedents. There is a need for a new Nigeria where there shall be rejoicing. So put all these key elements together as you go to the polls to vote. And we also expect great that there will be new narratives about our great country because God has not withdrawn our resources. So we still have resources to pick up from where we are and get better. After all, Rwanda has given us a brilliant example in Africa. Rwanda was in the pit. But right now, Rwanda is, you know, we're looking up. Things are looking up. There is one of the fastest-growing economies in Africa. So all the hatefuls God, they have united. They are moving in the direction of development. Let's put all this together and let it determine you know, to us what direction we will go. Thank you very much, Mr. Honongro. Mr. Jide Honongro. Thank you so much for being a part of this show and enlightening us. We'll ask for more clarification some of the time. But today, that's where we will wrap it up on the segment of the show. Thank you so much for being a part of the program. Thank you. God bless Nigeria. So we'll take a short break, very brief break, and when we return, we'll return with the news and the program continues thereafter.