 Okay, you're now live on YouTube and you're now a host too, Sherwood. Fantastic. We're also still also recording. Okay, well, welcome everybody to the November 16th meeting of the Climate Action and Accounting Special Interest Group. We've got a group of really interesting speakers today to speak about climate dividends. I'm very interested in hearing about this. And I kind of start off just with a couple of housekeeping things to quick reminder that our group and Hyperledger follow the anti-trust policy of the Linux Foundation. So keep that in mind in sharing the sharing information that you have or any code that you submit. There's more information at the bottom of this meeting page. In addition, we follow Hyperledger's code of conduct. So really important to make sure that everybody behaves in a respectful and responsible manner. There's a link there. You can find out more about that. Before we hop into the meeting, I wanted to give a chance to see if there are any newcomers to the meeting. I would love to hear from you. Just to learn a little bit about your background and interest and how you heard about us. So any new meetings here, any new newcomers here today. Okay. Sounds like, oh, there's Ron. Yes, Ron. Hey, sure. How are you? Thanks for having me. Ron Sbarata. I chair the Wall Street Blockchain Alliance. We're partners with Hyperledger. I'm on the distributions here. It's a fascinating topic. I've just never had the opportunity until today to join these great calls. And going back to my ancient days at Thompson Reuters back when Kyoto Protocol was trying to kick in. We were looking at things like emissions trading challenges and understanding the environment for kind of those solutions. So very interested to find out more about the topic and spend time with all of you. Fantastic. Looking into, you said the Wall Street Blockchain Alliance. Yes, sir. And you, are you guys, do you guys do any, any collaboration with the trade finance group here with, with, with the kind of the Hyperledger? We do. We do. And we could, I don't want to distract from the call here, but certainly we could take some of that offline. And some others have done some present joint presentations. Happy to collaborate with all of you on this call. Fantastic. Fantastic. Okay. Any, is there anybody else? Okay. So with that in mind. So I want to introduce Yvonne. Come on. And I'm apologize if I put your names up here. Lagarde and Betty Coley there with time for the planet. And so a lot of you, I mean, everybody in the call kind of, you know, it's a little bit about the background here. But I think that this is really a discussion about. Dividends and, and, and, and, and carbon emissions and, and using blockchain to kind of drive this. And so I'll, I'll let them introduce themselves. And then when they, when you guys give me the, the nod, I'll go ahead and start the, start the good introduction video that you guys shared with us. Perfect. So should I start? Yeah. So did you want to just kind of give you a quick introduction about you and your background? Okay. Yes. So my background is, is I'm a tech sale tech entrepreneur. I joined time for the planet and we co-created a company called carbon time. And I'm currently running this company for a carbon removal solution, especially immunization. But today we're going to present something that we work for and I'll, I'll let Pierre also present himself. Yes. Thank you. So Pierre Lagarde, I'm from Microsoft in Windows organizations. And I'm a follow time for the planet to create the connection between time for the planet and the green software foundations based on the new foundations. Probably, you know, you know the green software foundations and to, to try to, to create this connection. So I'm here to, to create this connection again. And I'm happy to, to join this call and thank you for take the time to, to follow this project because in, I'm chair of the green software innovations, working groups in the software in the, in the foundations. And I'm supported this project in, in the green software foundation. So that's why it's very interesting to create this connection between two foundations based on the new foundations. Many many. Yeah. Hi everybody. Very happy to join this call. So I'm many one of the co-founder and CEO of time for the planet. We are a global investment found that invest in technologies able to decrease greenhouse case emissions. And we are currently one of the biggest crowdfunding ever in Europe. So we use this money to find the best innovation that can be game changer in the fight against climate change. And we find as well great entrepreneur who can join the technical team. And then we invest money and we use an open source business model, even in the industrial companies. So that the innovation can have the most possible chance to, to become global on, on, to have an global warming. And so yeah, today we are here to discuss about climate dividends, which is the way we want to measure the, the impact of any company that has an innovation that can decrease the greenhouse case emissions or capture. Companies have set a goal of carbon neutrality. So yeah, go, go for the, go for the video. Okay. All right. That's the good news because it's kind of burning out there. Even if the carbon neutrality objective only makes sense on a global scale, every step forward is precious. Are you a human being? Good. We're talking to you. If you're also personally concerned by the climate emergency and you are an executive of a company, a bank or an investment fund, then we have more good news. You have great power to act. And as you probably know, with great power comes great responsibility. The first part of these responsibilities, as you know, is to take stock of your carbon footprint. You take everything you have emitted this year in CO2 and you categorize it into the main types of emissions. From now on, your mission is to reduce everything you can reduce. But unfortunately, we know emitting zero CO2 is possible. To understand this, let's look at the remaining emissions, the ones you absolutely can't reduce. See, these are other people's emissions. This is what we generally call scope three of the carbon footprint. As long as the air conditioning you use in your offices contains powerful greenhouse gases, as long as your raw materials are extracted, thanks to oil, and as long as your servers consume vast quantities of carbon-based energy, you can't go any further in your reduction process. To reach a net zero contribution, we need a collective global investment to finance the necessary innovations for change and create carbon sinks. And for that, we currently use carbon credits. The problem is first, that you have to buy them every year, and second, that a ton of CO2 costs more and more. But that was before climate dividends changed the game. Instead of buying CO2 reductions every year, become a producer of CO2 reductions. How? By investing in a company that reduces emissions through innovation and that pays you a climate dividend every year. This dividend corresponds to a number of tons of CO2 equivalent captured or reduced. For example, the CO2 reduced thanks to a company that markets the first-year conditioning without HFC gases, which are 2800 times more harmful to the climate than CO2. Become a shareholder of this company and you will receive climate dividends every year, based on the number of tons of CO2 that have been captured or reduced thanks to this system. Yes, every year, with zero time limit. With time for the planet, we can be even more effective. We only create companies based on an innovation which aims to reduce greenhouse gas emissions on a global scale. These innovations are open source, allowing any company to copy, improve, and market them. So every year, we add up to the CO2 reduced by our own companies and those of all the companies that use our innovation in open source. And that can add up to a lot of companies, a lot of CO2, and a lot of dividends. That total CO2 is then distributed to our shareholders in the form of climate dividends. If you own 1% of time shares, you get 1% of that total CO2 back. Thanks to the open source, shared innovations, and continuous improvement, year after year, the climate dividend is exponential. And it's all thanks to a single initial financial investment. In short, the sooner you invest, the greater your climate returns. This is the snowball effect. You receive climate dividends from all the companies created after your investment. Thus, the older your time for the planet shares are, the greater their impact is. With climate dividends, the value of your time for the planet shares is entirely linked to the level of CO2 impact of your investment. How we use our money defines the world we want to live in. So thank you for the video. So I'm going to share my screen to expand a little bit more. What I want to do with that. I think I need your authorization to share the screen. Let me see. No, I need you to stop sharing your screen. Stop sharing, Mania. Stop sharing. Yeah. Great. Are you able to share yours? Yeah, it's okay. So what is it? Here. So the video explains the concept of climate dividends. And at the end it explains how it works specifically with time for the planet. But we didn't imagine climate dividends only for time for the planet because we believe it's a tool that could be used by any industry and specifically that can be a very good way to redirect the money from big banks, big investment funds, enterprise, any companies directly to the place where we need, which is innovations that can help stop global warming because this is the biggest emergency ever. And what is interesting is that when you are looking at how companies can make their balance, their footprints, we see that in the footprints of huge banks and new investment funds, but as well in enterprise, the line 15 of this carbon footprint is usually one of the biggest. Why? Because the line 15 is the investments made by the company. So let's take an example. I've got that here. This is the carbon footprint of BASF. And so you've got here the different lines. So for example, purchase goods and service. And if you check here, the line 15, you've got investments. And that's very interesting because for example, if you've got 10% of American alliance, then the line 15 of the carbon footprint will be 10% of American alliance. So the way you use the money of your company is very important in your global strategy of decreasing the global footprint of the company. But the problem is that when you invest on something that is good for the climate. So for example, let's take here, you're an investor and you target a company that can sell carbon credits to other customers here. So for example, let's take the most simple, the simplest example is just for us, the company that plants trees, then the company is going to sell carbon credits here. But if you are the investor or the creator of the company, then you've got no possibility to measure and to evaluate the investment that you've done here. So you need to change this game. And so you need to go to this situation. You are an investor, you invest in an innovation that can decrease greenhouse case. You are going to sell carbon credits and here you are going to be able to create your climate dividends. And one ton of CO2 reduced each year by your company will be one climate dividend. So it's very easy and simple. So what we've done for the moment is creating the first version of climate dividends. It's clearly something very simple. You've got here the websites and here you can download the protocol. So we created this protocol with European important authorities. It was EY who made the content and we had a working group with the French government. We had the collaboration of people from a large number of different companies global companies, small companies and as well the French government. And so this first version now needs to become a standard. And so for that, what we need is to have a second working group and in this second working group we would really like to have Linux with us. The goal for us will be for Linux to provide the software that open source software obviously where the data that allows to distribute the climate dividends will be stored. For example, if we contact gold standard or Vera or any other standard like that they have the information that can help to create the climate dividends. For example, they know which company has edited and sold which carbon credits. And so with this information if we know in this company who are the shareholder we can easily give climate dividends to the shareholders. And so we need here a platform which will store the climate dividends and which will store the data. And this data, if climate dividends become something big would be very interesting because it would be the best way to know who are the best investors of the world on the topic of climate change. And that would be really game changing for the fight against climate change. Last thing we believe that blockchain could be the technology behind this software and we believe that it's possible to have climate dividends as a kind of electronic money that would be maybe the third step. It's not something we're going to do now. But what we do right now for next year is to create the second working group. It's something we want to do collectively. We don't want to own climate dividends forever. It's something we think that needs to be open source and that needs to be co-created. That's all for me. If you've got a question, I would be happy to answer. Yvonne, you're muted. Exactly. Thank you. Thank you, Yvonne. We kick off to the QS session because we are here to really discuss the concept. As you've understood into the video as well as on the different presentation, this is not a carbon credits. This is really something that is not financial. So the idea to have a certificate behind that is exactly the way to follow the money is something that is currently missing because the investment is only negative. So this is exactly what is the concept from a climate dividend standpoint. Sherwood, do you want to open the QS session? Yes, I've got a couple of different questions. The first one is very basic. And much seems to be kind of basic, to be quite honest with you. For line 15, when a company is accounting for the emissions that their investments are responsible for, I'm assuming that if they're investing in, for example, in airlines, let's assume that that airline is also accounting for all the emissions that they're responsible for. And so in my mind, for some reason, I'm understanding that it's double counting in a certain way, right? Because the investment is accounting for carbon emissions that an organization is accounting for itself, right? If an organization is accounting for certain emissions, does it make sense to break it up according to all the different investors who own a piece of that? If all those investors are also facing their emissions, I'm assuming on the percentage ownership that they have in that organization, are there kind of two accounts for that? One, the organization itself, and then all of the stakeholders are also adding that to their books as well. Isn't that double counting? You're totally right. There's double counting in all carbon footprints. It's not double counting. It's three, four, five times counting. Let's take an example. If you've got 10% of American Airlines and you have bought plane tickets for a lot of employees, two American Airlines, then it's the same CO2 that will appear in your carbon footprints, one time on the line 15 and one in another line of the carbon footprint. That's the same thing for American Airlines because American Airlines will, in its scope three, in its scope one and two have some carbon footprints that you will have in your own carbon footprint in your scope three. That's clearly not a problem because the goal of the carbon footprint is not to have the reality at the global level of the carbon that has been emitted by all the companies. It's a tool that you use for yourself. Got it. Yeah, okay. The reason I asked that is because my mindset is in the world of this climate accounting system that we kind of talk a lot, which double counting is a major problem, but what you said makes sense. I had another question for you with regards to the solution that you're developing. I'm assuming that the MR, you're not looking at really solving the MRV solution at the very end that's grabbing the data. You're essentially just looking to build a blockchain system that can bring in all the data that's provided by whatever MRV solutions provided and kind of track that information. Is that correct? Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's correct. And this is another one. Can you re-explain the difference between carbon credits and a carbon dividend? Yeah, sure. I've got something here about that. Yeah, okay. So first difference is about value. Carbon credits, it's a financial value because one carbon credits is one ton of CO2 and is a number of dollars because you are going to purchase the carbon credits on a platform. So it can be $5, $6. It can be a lot more. CO2 dividends is an extra financial value. It's an annual disclosure of the amount of ton of CO2 capture reduced as a result of my investments. The second thing is that the carbon credits can be transferred. You can buy carbon credits and then you can sell carbon credits. In the CO2, in the climate dividend, you can buy carbon credits and then you can sell carbon credits. So that's a good thing. So the CO2 dividends, but the good name is climate dividends. So the climate dividends cannot be transferred because you have each year the information of the climate dividends that you can own because you are a shareholder of the company. So as long as you're a shareholder of this company, you just need to be a shareholder, that's all. And the legal nature is very different because carbon credits is a fundable personal property, something you own. And the CO2 dividends is a shareholder rights. It's something that you can earn one each year because you're a shareholder. So that's very different. But for double content, clearly you are not going to use the climate dividends as a way of carbon credits because carbon credits is something you are going to use for compensation. Climate dividends is something you are going to use to show how your company has contributed to the global effort of decreasing CO2 emissions. In other words, it's a way of measuring the impact and a way of reguiding investment to real impact projects. Yeah, thanks. That makes a lot more sense. I kind of feel like I'm hogging the spotlight, but I'm not seeing any hands raised. So I'll continue to ask some questions. There we go. Ron, please. What's your question? Thanks, Sherwood. Appreciate it. Great presentation, gents. A quick question for you. Just as we're watching the world of greater shareholder activism around ESG, this seems to fit really, really well in there. And I just want to make sure I'm understanding the dynamics. You're aiming at those companies that are working to sequester or some way minimize carbon emissions and or the investors in those companies. A, is that correct? And B, how has that process gone in explaining and kind of educating those two kind of unique demographics? Okay. I'm not trying this to the second one, but to answer the first question. What we want to do is to measure who are the best investors to find climate change. There is two way to invest. The first way is just to say, okay, I'm going to invest in companies that are respectful for the environment who have a strategy to not have too much emissions. It's not what we're targeting. What we're targeting is the second one. It's companies that have been created because they have an innovation that can decrease climate change. For example, a climatization with no HFC gas, which is 2% of global CO2 emissions. If you have this innovation and that you want to bring it to the market, then you will say to your investors, hey, come put money here and you will have climate dividends, a lot of climate dividends, because this product, each time it's going to be installed somewhere, it's going to be 5 ton, 10 ton, 100 tons of CO2 that will be reduced. And so it's more about finding the best innovation than having a good behavior in choosing in which company you're going to invest. And just to precise the second part of the question, so the idea with this climate dividend concept is exactly for big companies or investors to have an extra financial layer where they can put clearly the impact of their investment. And this is something that will make the bridge between the innovation that really have a global impact and open source of those innovation and that's the thesis of the investment of Time for the Planet is exactly that, is how to find and fund the best innovation that will have a scale impact and a measurable scale impact. So this is really the bridge between the two. Understood. Thank you, Mitty. Thank you, Ivan. I really appreciate it. Thank you. TR, I believe your question is next. Did you say TR? Yes. So I'm wondering in terms of when you do investments, the replicability of different businesses that you're trying to do. Are you, if that person or business has intellectual property, are you trying to get them to have that open source so that it becomes more and more radical? So the question here is more about the investment policy of Time for the Planet. It's not directly linked to climate dividends because a company that is not open source at all can generate climate dividends, no problem. What Time for the Planet does is finding innovation and creating companies that are going to make business with this innovation, to make money with this innovation, but to do it with an open source system. And yeah, when we do that, we have a license. It's not exactly open source because it's a kind of free license that allows anybody to copy, to improve and to make business with an innovation. But they also have some obligation and one of these obligation is to report each year to our company. And in this report, we need the information that can allows us to know how much CO2 have been reduced thanks to the action of the licensing. And we use this information to create our own climate dividends, which makes the climate dividends of Time for the Planet exponential because as long as we have more licensee, we have more climate dividends. But that's very specific to the model of Time for the Planet. Thank you. Keith, I apologize. Looks like I skipped you. Please. What's your question? That's all right. I appreciate it. Yeah, thank you for sharing your idea this morning. My question is, you know, I understand the benefit of creating the dividends in order for people to get back kind of a badge of honor for their participation in the network of, you know, building up business that does take, you know, that does reduce carbon emissions. Are these companies though, are they going to be, you know, are they going to be working with Veras and gold standards on the other side than issuing carbon credits that will, you know, that will count for the reduction in emissions because that's going to bring in more revenue to the company, which is also going to be used for more investment. So in a way that was kind of mentioned before, like that it does seem like double counting, even though this is not a fungible asset, because it is used to generate more revenue and encourage more investment to the project. Yeah, clearly our goal now is to have Veras, gold standards, SPT on board on the second working group. We believe that it's not a problem to have this double counting. It's more a solution because you need to be able to value what you do as a client, customer, you've bought credits and you can use those credits to claim climate neutral, something like that for your company. So that's the first part. And the second part you need to show that you use your money to help resolving the problem of climate change. And for that you will have climate dividends. And those climate dividends you cannot add them to your carbon credits to say, hey, I'm carbon neutral. It's not the same goal. And so it's clearly written in all the documentation of the climate dividends that you cannot add them to something else or subtract it to your carbon footprints. So why we did that is exactly the point that you found in your question. We don't want this double counting to be a problem and it would be a problem if it was allowed to use it for compensation. Does it answer the question? Yes, I have three what-ifs. How does it work if you are only responsible for your scope one? How does it work if it is only available to individuals and it's only the CEO that gets all of the credit for the company? And how does it work if a financial genius monetizes the reputational value? And when can we beta test the operational product? So first thing, if you are in a company where you have a company, the CEO, some founders, and you've got financial funds inside, then the climate dividends will be very interesting specifically for the financial part, clearly, because the CEO will be happy to have a climate dividends, but it's not something which he will be game changer for him. What you can do if you want to value that difference, but it's not something that you can do to value that differently. And it's something we do in time for the planet. It's that when we invest in the rules that are done at the moment when we invest, we say time for the planet is going to earn 100% of the climate dividends that would be generated. And in exchange, we give you more shares or we give you more importance in something else. It's something that you can discuss because it's an asset. So it's exactly the same as anything else that you will be important in your company. You can distribute it as you want. But if there's nothing that has been specifically written, then if you've got 15% of the company, then you've got 50% of the dividends, the climate dividends. Then what happens if a genius wants to monetize climate dividends? First thing, to generate climate dividends, you need to use the certification, so the document that we produced, and you need to use a company that will do the audits. For example, KPMG now is labelized for climate dividends, so it's official. And so if you don't have this company who is going to say, here is the official number of climate dividends that you can give to your shareholders this year, then your climate dividends is not a real one. It's not official. So that's very important. And last thing, as climate dividends is not something you can sell. What you can sell is the shares of your company. And if you sell those shares, then the person who is going to buy the shares will earn climate dividends every year. So that's a way for shares to have more value because there is the value linked to the financial part of the company, but as well to the impact part of the company. And we really believe that at some points, this is going to be more important than the financial value. And just to add to your latest point, so the beta is already available because this is the way time for the planet is incentivizing all the investors, whether they are companies, individuals, or funds to basically invest in time to get as early as possible because if they invest in the company very early, they will have the investment of the year that is performed by the investment fund, which means it's an incitation to invest earlier into impact fund projects. Thank you for mainstreaming this concept. So TR and Elizabeth, you still have your hands up. Do you have additional questions? No. I'm struggling a little bit with the dividend concept still because in my mind, I think dividend, I think financial value, my understanding, my misunderstanding was that the dividend was essentially going to be like a carbon credit, something that a gold standard would kind of verify and by having an ownership stake in that company, you'd have a dividend of carbon credits that you'd be then able to sell for monetary value. What I'm kind of hearing is that the dividends are more kind of like an impact recognition for an organization and that impact recognition essentially allows that organization to kind of show the environment, the positive environmental impact that its investments are making, right? It's exactly that. Next try financial information that you can value as an investor. Okay, all right. Two written questions. First question is, so if company C has a carbon footprint of 500 tons of CO2 equivalent for a year, why then are investors in Time for the Planet and they earn 100 dividends from Time for the Planet in this year? Can company C then report only 400 tons of CO2? So the answer here is no, because it's forbidden to subtract your climate dividends to your carbon footprint. It's very important. What you can do is saying, hey, this year I've got shares from Time for the Planet. I've got shares from those two other companies that are very innovative. And thanks to those shares, I have 100 tons of CO2 equivalent, so 100 of climate dividends. So that shows how my company uses its money to contribute to the global effort against global warming. And then are you introducing climate dividends because you feel existing funding mechanisms such as venture capital or project finance is missing in some way? Yeah, because for the moment, what happens is that the investors who want to have an impact, they are targeting classic companies and then when they are studying the opportunities, they are going to check some criterias to see, okay, here they respect, they are respectful of the environment here and not a lot respectful. But if you ask VCs to find innovations that can generate climate dividends, then VCs are going to find innovations that can really change the game. So that's a complete change of mindsets and that is exactly what we need everywhere for the citizens, but as well for the finance. I think there's also, you see the suggestions, it sounds like the climate dividends would be a great instrument to propose as part of the recommendations of the Task Force on Climate-Related Financial Disclosures for Corporations. I think they would soak this up important to define from the beginning that this is not a spatial dividend paid to shareholders. Capital dividend paid to shareholders. Oh, thank you. Are you all familiar with the Task Force on Climate-Related Financial Disclosures? I know a little bit about it, but we are not involved. Richard, do you have anything additional you wanted to kind of share about that? How they might get involved? Yeah, I don't have any suggestions how to get involved, but I can inquire on that. I've done quite a bit of research on what they do, both on metrics, but also on like actual measuring carbon emissions of companies, but also on the financial element. I think that's their focus and this is clearly on their lines and along those lines, and it sort of sets the standards for creating reputation for corporations on their climate commitments. And that's clearly what you guys are doing, but you're operationalizing it in a way that I don't think they've really thought about. Perhaps, I mean, maybe they have, but it'd be interesting to see how some sort of synergy between what you're doing and what they're proposing as an actual instrument, right? Not just something that people can use, companies can use. Anyways, I'll see if there are any channels that might be open to pursue that, because this is gaining a lot of traction. And a lot of the standard groups, they're adopting the TCFD recommendations. So it's really becoming a sort of globally recognized standard for a lot of people. Okay, thank you very much, Basil. We'll be happy to represent it if necessary to this working group. Yeah, thanks for making that connection, Bertrand. So it sounds like you, in the very beginning of the presentation, kind of a part of your motivation for kind of sharing with the group and kind of becoming a little bit more just well known within kind of starting the conversation and then next hyperledger is the interest in beginning to build out some of the infrastructure for kind of tracking some of these dividends. So I was wondering if you might share, and I had some suggestions for, you know, how you might be able to kind of start working in the community and building awareness around that, but I'd love to hear a little bit about the specific needs, the specific features of the solution that you envisioned to kind of help everybody start to get their head around what would need to be built. Yeah, okay. You've got the first thing is the companies or structure where we can find the data. So this is clearly gold standard, there are SPT, et cetera. So we need to plug with them in a some way so that's something to discuss with them so that we can have the information on the platform of which company has sold how much carbon credits. We don't need here to see if the carbon credits is linked to a real CO2 emissions reduction because it has been something that Vera and Gold Standard has already checked. So that's very important. Then the second step is that when you've got this data, you need to store the data and then to allow any company to say okay, I see that I can create an account to claim that I am this company and I will declare my shareholders. As soon as I've declared my shareholders, then the personal account of each shareholder is created so the shareholder can receive the information and say, hey, okay, this is your wallet, in this wallet you've got your climate dividends. And the next step after that would be two things. The first is to have a global information saying this year global investment worldwide was this total amount of climate dividends. We will know how much of this climate dividends is sequestration capture, how much is reductions in which country it was, in which time of industry, who are the best investors of the world on this topic, et cetera. So we would have very interesting data to use. Then you can as well plug that with software. For example, Microsoft is going to have a solution, Sweep has a solution, other solutions to create your carbon footprint as a company easier, easily. And so you can have modules in which you say okay, this is my carbon footprint, this is my climate dividends. You can plug that directly. And last thing, it can be interesting. I'm not really sure, but it's something that I can share with you to find a way that each climate dividends becomes a kind of crypto. So that's a token, yeah. So then you can use that as well as something that you can directly change on this market. But this part is more of the vision. It's not something we're going to do now, and I'm not sure it's important to do it. That's why we want to create this working group because we need to be a lot of people thinking about that to make a good choice. I just make a quick jump in. So essentially what you're saying is in the long run is finding ways to transform the climate dividend into something that replicates the capital dividend. Because the minute you're making this available on exchange for cryptocurrencies, which represent some sort of money, this is becoming something like a capital dividend. Yeah, that's an open question. How do you define it? Because I guess it's not a direct capital dividend. It's just representing the commitment of the investor, but it can be transformed into one. Yeah. The most important thing here, why we don't want to have direct value between a climate dividend and something in Dallas? It's because we want to clearly separate climate dividends and carbon credits. It's the basic of the system is here. But if you create an attachment to your climate dividends, which is exactly what happens with tokens, then you can have something like a secondary market or something like that. But I think that this will not have any impact on the principle of climate dividends because it's something else. Yeah, I think I see what you mean. A capital dividend for the sale of carbon credits would be distributing revenues from those sales to your consumers, to the investors, which is a different thing. Here you're saying it's more of a secondary market for valuing this reputational token. Which is interesting. I mean, yeah, that's interesting. How do you define that? That's cool, thanks. But that's clearly not what is the most important thing for the moment. Keith has his hand raised. I just had one last question, which was how does this company keep the lights on? I didn't see any model for revenue here. It seems very good for companies to be able to tell people how much they are contributing towards saving the earth. But how do you keep the lights on? Yeah. We think that it will be a nonprofit. There is a lot of different ways to be able to have money to just manage the climate dividends. For the moment, it's owned by time for the planet. So we assume all the costs, for example, the communication, the video, et cetera. But we are starting now to find as well, financial contributors to do this second year. And clearly what we want to do is to find a place where there will be the money, the information, all the people who want to manage climate dividends to make it evolve. But we are more about doing something nonprofit than a company here. Thank you. I appreciate your efforts. Sai Chen, I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit here. Sai has been working with him on a project around kind of researching into the voluntary carbon credit market. And it's the idea of using blockchain to develop kind of a global index of all the different voluntary carbon credit that are out there in a single DLT-driven kind of database to kind of provide transparency into all the different credits that are out there and who owns them and who's selling them. It seems like that is the kind of first part of the product requirements that you described to me. But then it sounds like there's another component that kind of brings in, you know, kind of connects that to the ownership of the different kind of corporate entities that own the dividends. And so Sai, I wanted to kind of ask you, I've been kind of curious to hear what your reaction is and kind of what your initial kind of responses, your thoughts on kind of adding that addition and kind of how those pieces fit together. Do you have any thoughts? Yeah, we think that carbon credits and climate dividends has to work together because it's the same thing, but with two different goals. So we don't need to create something totally new with climate dividends. That's why we can only trust carbon credits that are already being verified. And so the best way to do that is to have one database shared by all the companies that want to share their information. Some can be disclosed and some can be private. So public or private. That really doesn't really matter. The one who are the most active, we clearly prefer to be public because it's something that shows what they do for Earth. So I think everybody wants to show this information. Does it answer to your question? It was not a question. It was something for shy to express. Okay, sorry. Sorry. That was helpful too. And I didn't know if I had anything that I was kind of putting Yeah. Hi. Actually, I am trying to understand. So you are creating this as in addition to like a actual carbon credit, right? That could be registered and traded and sold. So, and this is something that people cannot sell or cannot trade, right? Yeah. So, like somebody asks this question, can it be used as and counted as the, against the overall emissions of a company? Like if they benchmark their scope one, two, three, can they then take your carbon dividend and count against it? So, no, it's extra financial. It's not okay for us registry. So it's not accountable for that. It's really an extra financial information, but shy from a pure mechanism perspective, it takes the same elements to be computed. So from, from the mechanics that we can think of at a larger, at a global scale and at a second time from the implementation standpoint, the mechanism between how to measure and how to measure the impact and taking from the accounting system, the information from a CO2 standpoint. This is basically the bridge that we're trying to make, in order to build a certificate, in order to build this concept and to materialize it in something that is an extra financial element. Okay. I think, yeah, I mean, that sounds fine. There's obviously a lot of concern about double counting in the carbon credit markets, right? This is something they even talked about last couple of weeks at COP26 is how to avoid double counting of it. Carbon credits. So if it's not being counted against any kind of an emissions total of a company or its investors or whoever, then I guess that's not an issue. So how is the reception out there for this extra kind of emissions credit or counting that you're doing? Have you, in terms of the different potential groups that would utilize it, where would they, where would this fit into what they're doing and using, use it for? So we have done the first presentation public on the climate dividends in, it was one month ago and we invited European companies to this presentation and we had clearly 100% of the people who were here who were very interested and wanted to know more. So we've got now specific presentations to each member. So what we want to do is to find two things. The first is experts who can come to the second presentation working group and companies that want to start generating their own climate dividends. It's the two call to actions. Okay. Interesting. Okay. Thank you. I just reiterate, I think having someone from the TCFD on that working group will be really useful for you guys because I think if, again, I'll just reiterate if they can back this as a recommendation that will motivate the second group which is the actual companies to use it because again, a lot of companies are just following what the TCFD recommends because of the sort of reputation they have including people like Bloomberg and other big, you know. Maybe as well to answer to the question a little bit more we've got in time for the planet. So it's the action of time problem. We have two companies who have invested more than one million only for climate dividends, which means that they have, when they put money in the project, they know that we have no financial return. So one euro with one dollar would be one dollar at the end of the day, but they know that we earn climate dividends and so they decided to invest one, two million only to get climate dividends. Just to precise, time for the planet is non-profit fund. So that's why there's non-profits. So this was also a way to give back to shareholders. But by giving back, basically, it's another institution to finance more projects. So I was the first company to be financed by time for the planet. But the idea is to create much more of those companies and to invest more money into that. So it's a virtual circle. Climate dividends can be created by for-profit companies or firms already, but obviously no problem with that. The question of Elizabeth was why measuring in years rather than weeks or decades? The measure of years is basically very specific to time for the planet because it's a course of project in a year. But in fact, the measurement is of course done like any type of project, depending on the regularity of those measures. It could be a real time or it could be every year at minimum. Yeah, we say one year for the moment because dividends, financial dividends are distributed each year. So it can be the same with climate dividends because we think that it's exactly the same mechanism. And that's why we use the term dividends because we know that everybody knows dividends. Everybody knows how it works. So it's easier to have this in mind. So one year is one distribution. So the analogy works perfectly. So for the shares of the companies and much more. Elizabeth is asking metric ton or US ton? Metrics. For the moment, but conversion are easy. Yeah, exactly. Right. Well, I could just come up at the end of the hour. I don't see any further questions. This has been really interesting. I can follow up to you guys offline as well. Now that we have a better understanding of what you're working on to talk to a little bit about some of the kind of tools that you have available to you to kind of build projects within the ecosystem, build awareness, attractive with the project. So happy to be a resource to you there. And with that, there aren't any further questions. You guys have anything you'd like to add to kind of wrap up? Okay. I think that the most important thing that the call to action is that we are, we are looking forward for collaboration. And in order to push forward this concept that is, that has received really a lot of attention in Europe. And you guys are based all over the world. So we thought it was a good idea. So to invite you guys in, in this collaboration. Absolutely. How can people on the call kind of track, especially with the working, it sounds like you're developing a new working group. How, how might we kind of be aware of that and potentially join that as, as that comes into reality. I think that you can, if I can have the email of the people who want to, to get in touch, I will send information and can schedule personal calls for people who, who have an expertise to bring on the, on the working group. Absolutely. Is there a way that they can share that with you? Or they can share it with me. Just send an email to this, this address. Great. And we have some in the chat as well. People are sharing their, their emails. Also happy to, you know, as you guys launched the working group, happy to kind of share that with the SIG as well. You know, and, and now also you can reach out to the SIG as well there and say, you know, listen, you can reach out to it can both, it can work both ways. Exactly. Fantastic. Okay. Well, thank you all very much for, for taking the time to share this with us. I think it's been an educational, educational session for everybody. And yeah, looking forward to tracking progress and looking forward to members of the group get involved. So thank you. Thank you very much. It was a pleasure. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye.