 It's September the 30th. It's Wednesday. It's 11 o'clock. That can be only one thing. It's Trump week I'm Tim Apachele your host and the title of today's show is Who do you owe? $420 million to Tell us please But before we get into the discussion about Donald Trump's tax returns I've got to talk about the debate or the so-called debate because it wasn't a debate It was a route. It was a disgusting portrayal of the Delegation of the electoral process that we've been following since 1960 since the nicks and kennedy debates Uh, our debating has been a a strong rich history of this united states And how we select a president to hear their views their policies and how they would run the country And what we got yesterday was nothing but an obtrusive rant From the president united states whose sole mission was to derail This debate to make sure it didn't occur because donald trump didn't have one response one answer to To any of the hour and a half plan questions So in order to address the questions that he could could not answer He wanted to derail it and he was successful That was one of the purposes i believe um that donald trump had in mind And then other the other purpose was to telegraph very clearly to the american public That he does not intend to accept the election results He does not intend to accept the ballots as valid And i guarantee you what he's going to do is say on election night I am the winner and any any votes beyond election night will be discounted fought disputed And he even so much said that the courts will decide the determination of the election so Donald trump had an agenda It just didn't look like to the american public that he had an agenda He flailed wildly in the air with insults and rants and interruptions And some of them made their mark and some of them most of them didn't So Let's talk about this. I want to welcome our guests today Today we have jay fidel Stephanie dalton winston welch and synthia lice and claire. Good morning everybody. Welcome morning, jim Good morning jay straight to you This debate the so-called debate i've been watching debate since i was 10 years old Really since 1968 and i've never seen a more disgusting portrayal of of an a president Trying to participate in our democratic electoral electoral process, which is debates Your thoughts and observations from last night's debacle Well, let me let me spring forward on a point you made a minute ago. It was brilliant on trump's part brilliant You know people came away with that was uh, you know one fellow was out of control and while the other fellow was Trying to be a nice guy and talk to the people that doesn't change any votes We already know that There was no as the time said there was no information no new information Um, you know that was a value there what the spectacular was was that he was displacing any civilized conversation There was no civilized conversation Now what's what's brilliant about that? He's he's got a lot of things to apologize for He's got a lot of questions to answer He he he has not defended not defended his His his finances as revealed by the new york times and revealed the second time yesterday They are after him with that Also, you know, although he's saying he's not going to not going to respect the vote He's got all kinds of things working to mess up the the process mess it up before Election day and after election day. He's busy with that And I don't think he wanted to get into the details. Those are the things that happened behind his back You know, for example, yesterday there was a story about the cdc and how he manipulated the cdc to the point where redfield is threatening to resign Over cruise ships, you know terrible terrible business behind his back. He doesn't want that coming out He wants to distract us all and indeed. Isn't it clear? He totally distracted us well Jay isn't a distraction to say that um A refusal to renounce any white supremacist groups be Be it the boogaloo boys or the proud boys or whatever whatever group we want to we want to call them The distraction for him to commit to um have them at the radio and have his supporters Go to the polls on election day and monitor polls to make sure that the ballots are not being messed with Didn't he basically commit to voter intimidation by sending his loyal supporters out there to the polls And what what kind of monitoring could they possibly perform? They're not trained to monitor What is their role that he is he's engaged them into and energize them to to get out there on an election day And and basically disrupt the electoral process not help it also brilliant also brilliant But is that a distraction or is that a distraction or is that a promise? No, it's an activation It's a dog whistle teller giving them instructions go out there go out there by the thousands you know take your You know your your assault rifles and stand outside Intimidate everyone That's what he's doing. Um, so that was you know, that was um a direct Instruction to a lot of his base to go and do that. So no, I agree with you. That's that's not a distraction That's an instruction and and I think it will happen Aren't there election laws? I mean if the average joe basically went out out into the streets or on a you know megaphone or on Some social media broadcast and tried to incite a disruption the electoral voting process Wouldn't that person be have a visit from some law enforcement agency? And say you uh, you're not allowed to do that um, well the answer is uh, it is It is just to stand there Is to achieve his result just to be there just to be looking like a skin a skinhead is enough And they'll be there and they'll have that effect as to whether a police officer is going to come and stop them I don't think so You know whether the police officer instructed to do that or inclined to do that is another question, but Who's going to do it? You want to make a citizen's arrest him? Maybe I should send my wife and family. Maybe I should send my puppy And they should make citizen's arrest of people who interfere with voting by standing around with assault rifles I think it's going to happen. I don't think anybody's going to stop them And I think it will have the intended effect. So it's a huge part of his agenda going forward and he achieved that Yeah, I agree. Hey, Stephanie. Um again what I heard was a commitment to Uh disrupt the electoral process on election day What I heard Donald Trump say is that all Basically most ballots are going to be considered fraudulent and they'll be disputed What I heard Donald Trump say is uh to the proud boys as a white supremacist group to stand back and stand by That was a very clear instruction even though today He once again like he did with david duke denied who the proud boys were he didn't he said he didn't know Who that group was uh another bold face lie that donald trump is exposed to all of us Is there anything to be done about this in your opinion? Is there any proactive thing that democrats can do law enforcement agencies can do to head off at the pass a disruption on election night? Well, I think uh, you're so right and it's so alarming However, again, there are some things that can be done not that are indirectly hopefully influential But for one thing Why am I not hearing that every state that has a delay on counting ballots until election day? Why am I not hearing that they're starting at 1201 a.m So i'm not hearing that from all of those states. So they should have hordes of people in there Counting those ballots the minute that clock strikes so that they've got you know another six eight hours Before the work day actually begins giving us a little bit of a perhaps a chance to get something done by That night by what is it 12 hours later? So i'm so disturbed by that that um, it's obviously making me nervous here, but the other point is that as far as going forward with these discussions um In my opinion, and I didn't have a stopwatch But trump had at least one third more time Because he always came back after and and stump, you know went in over Joe biden's sentences and started in on his rant and chris wallis did not stop him And that's when I was screaming at chris on my tv like stop him. He's out of line So it was at least a third, you know a half of the time In addition, he got half of joe biden. No, he he he did that on purpose and he knew that No one was going to really effectively shut him up So he continued to rant and interrupt and talk over so that joe biden could not get his points out Make a point. He could not be coherent with this truck coming through his uh his Expression so so I mean those are I'm suggesting kind of like Not a huge bit too big too little procedures that ought to be in place that would yield a lot of time and perhaps uh product and effect I mean, I'm so concerned about the ballots being low And they will be low if they don't count start counting them until 8 p.m They won't get a hundred counted by midnight. So, um, this this is a factor That needs to be addressed and then of course, we'll see what the committee does for Re-establishing the rules of the next So-called debate, but I believe it is a It is a town hall and the next actual debate will become a lot and the vice president And so that should be more in line with the position Okay, thank you very much. Stephanie say winston, um, what What were the highlights or the the bright points for joe biden last evening? You know that whole The whole thing was the debacle. I I felt I felt sorry for all of us as americans But I also felt sorry that that this man who's spent his whole life in public service Had to be degraded by being on the stage with this Uh This this bolly Um dictator wannabe it was it was degrading for joe biden to have to be up there and be harassed and harangued and That degraded like he was this was not a An act a debate in any sense. This was this was one man bollying Interrupting cutting off 125 times. I think it's what one organization counted and it was It if that doesn't provide the scariest example of If people vote for this man in any way or allow him to proceed, that's what we're That's the best behavior. We're going to get out of it So that's him being on his best behavior on a stage trying to make a case for another four years Yeah, it was appalling and if if you're joe biden's campaign team and they've already agreed to Have uh other debates with john o trump, which I don't think they should have committed to that But if you are on their campaign team and you're now going to be committed to the next debate What what stipulations would you recommend that joe biden or what ground rules should the the moderator or The entire structure the environmental structure of the debate. What what what would that look like? What what form should that take so that we don't have another disgusting portrayal of what we call democracy and have it completely sabotaged by a Ranting and raving president I don't think he should do another debate. What's it's not a debate. What's the point of that? That's just showing children bad behavior and adults Especially how to how to bully and intimidate and harass another person. Yeah, I agree, but they committed to it So it's going to happen then they have timers That that literally go off that are very strict and that and microphones that shut off and literally You don't get to talk unless there's a little red light on your days that allows you to talk But I think that rachel maddow had it right that that donald trump just destroyed another american institution as we understand it But after he goes Let's come back in four years and see Uh, how this is but you know, I there were so many falsehoods And and just childless behavior was it was hard to To wrap your head around at the end of it. You just wanted to to take a bath and And can I answer a little more on that question? What what can they do? What can the commission do now? Uh, of course the microphone issue that's been discussed around the block and that that should happen And everybody should agree to that including trump and then he has to he has to actually abide by it But there's something else that just strikes me from our experience here at think tech Why do they have to be in the same room? Why can't they be in different places? Why can't they be on kind of a version of zoom? 60 minutes had an interview with david attenborough last sunday and they had him in In the uk and the interviewer was in the us and it looked like they were in the same room But in fact they were using zoom and doing it really well And and I think that could happen here too And of course they could shut the sound off on one side of the other And you know that whole intimidation feature winston was talking about it before Using your hands and hypnotizing people and all that gesticulation that trump does That could be you know minimized So and and biden has agreed okay, but biden could also say How about doing this on remote that would be a good solution and he would be much better protected So just it jay. I think it's a great idea. Yeah. Yeah, because I I think What he's done in one single night is really turn off the american public from watching future debates And I think he he successfully has again sabotaged an institution an american tradition of listening to two candidates One president one one would be president to debate the issues that they want to see the voters consider and he's sabotaged that beautifully And I I don't know anyone who's looking forward to the next debate. I'm certainly not and I I love watching debates So, uh, I think donald trump Although he didn't win the night. He won the night Um, I'm sorry, but um, are you all looking at fox? That's not what they think. That's not what they're saying Totally completely in contrast to that. So you see how I can still jump in so I need somebody handling my mind I'm gonna turn your microphone off right now. No, um, hey, synth. Excuse me. Cynthia What what were joe biden's uh bright moments last evening when he finally got a chance to Articulate some of his positions and and some of his response to donald trump Did you see any bright bright spots there for joe biden? I loved it when he made eye contact with the camera Consistently throughout. I thought that was a really strong position for him He didn't get a chance to really make. How did he do on covet? How did he do? I'm painting donald trump as responsible For uh covet and the you know the horrific 205,000 american deaths we now have did he hit any um any points there? I don't think so. I was not impressed by how much there's so many things he could have said And and he did well partly because he didn't get a chance to And and kept getting thrown off But I think there's just a whole lot more that he could have said about the way Trump dropped the ball the way he went about Being exactly the opposite of what he told bob woodward and he didn't do that And so little things like you know, he tried to blame him for all 200 000 deaths He can't do that really it's a virus, but you can You know hold him responsible for the deaths that happen Because of his inaction Specifically all of the medical personnel and he sort of started to go that way, but then he was cut off by trump. So Really for me the only one was when he looked in the camera and he said don't listen to this guy He you know Don't fall for the lies that he's telling you You have a chance to make a difference get out and vote I was as you know me hashtag paper ballots Was completely just so mad about every pundit since every pundit before I mean preparing for it and the afterwards all nobody's talking about paper ballots So every single person that goes into vote in person electronically might as well just not go because we know That he's got access to the tabulation software. So we know we can't trust what okay, so okay After the debate the instant polls start rolling in and as far as who was declared a winner I believe some of these now this was cnn, but there was other polls Clearly showed joe biden at a 60 percentile and donald trump somewhere between 28 to 30 percentile as far as You know who who really won the day on that that debate Um, does that matter anymore? Well, unless you listen to fox like stephanie said and and same thing Not just because I listened to fox for a while to see what they were saying and they were just praising trump all over the place So all of the trump people That okay, so we're talking spin rooms. We're talking about in the spin room then and then on um on all of like msnbc today and cnn both I saw them interviewing Uh both some you know trump officials from his campaign Some uh some other you know republicans and everybody at 201 and they did the exact same thing that trump did At the at the debate was just talk over the you know, that's that's usually that's usually the case after a debate Everyone gets they call it the spin room, of course um, so you see that all right, I gotta i'm gonna change subjects here because um j Finally after four plus years, we finally get the nature and the truth about donald trump's taxes Uh, the new york time just come out with their their their report on what his taxes look like and to no one's surprise 10 out of 15 years donald trump paid zero taxes and for the years 2016 and 2017 He paid a whopping seven hundred and fifty dollars um to no surprise But um, he he basically has destroyed the narrative that he was such a great businessman But these tax returns reveal that it wasn't his businesses that um Was making them all his money. In fact, it's just the opposite the businesses were creating huge losses Would save the day for donald trump was his time and paychecks on the apprentice Uh, given the tax story from the new york times any revelations come to you um to your mind on that Yeah, the the apprentice defines him. He's still doing it. That's the most successful part of his life All other things have been a failure But what I what you know in a minute or two, let me tell you what i'm greatly concerned about Uh from those articles and they're still coming. There'll be more Uh, is that he owes 400 million dollars. He's it's coming due next next year He's going to have to pay it or refinance it Who does he owe it to exactly because sometimes these things follow a circuitous route? Um, we know that a lot of this money was lent to him offshore because american banks would not lend him any money Um, and those banks may be connected with latimer Vladimir could be funding those banks to fund trump and then he's got to roll it over He's got to get new financing to cover it or he'll be sued and he'll be in bankruptcy Clearly he doesn't have the revenue to pay 420 21 million Dollars off by his existing revenue. He doesn't have it. So he's going to have to either sell off assets Or create a new revenue stream. I'm not sure he has the assets. He's got golf courses and you know I'm not sure he has the assets. It's all subject to this debt huge debt and um, you know I think putin is in there somewhere, but putin even if putin isn't in there. That's a charitable way to look at it Putin could be in there. So the question as as one intelligence guy said is Who does he owe it to who is he beholden to? He's he'd never get a security clearance It's obvious that that he's conflicted big time To those people who he owes the money to or those people who will have to lend him more money to cover You know the defaulting debt What what what's happening here is he doesn't belong to us. He belongs to someone else um, well, it's just really very quick stories is um, you know, donald trump's Miss america pageants were big time money losers until it went to moscow And then an oligarch just started dumping and underwriting Millions of dollars into Where that's where donald trump finally had a successful year with the miss america pageant But uh another example is he had a property down in palm palm beach Which wasn't selling that no one was making an offer on it because it was way overpriced And lo and behold all of a sudden one investor comes in not only pays the list price of the property But 50 million dollars on top of it without any competitive bids So he just took the list price plus here's 50 million dollars Mr. Trump and guess who that had to happen to be a russian oligarch And curse we know who the russian oligarchs report to is Vladimir Putin So we know that there has been uh direct tie-ins to donald trump's finances and to russia and specifically i think to belladamere putin Do we have the right to know exactly who he has this indebtedness to should we know that regardless of whether we see Another financial statement or not You for security totally bet about that you absolutely right about that And what I thought was interesting is the day before the debate biden and Kamala harris revealed their tax returns good timing And showing that they paid you know hundreds of thousands of dollars in tax Where he pays 750 was zero in any event the american people especially now and going forward This will be I think a permanent change. We will have to know to whom the president owes money or other favors and hopefully before election day Hopefully before election day absolutely Stephanie your thoughts about the new york times article. Um, we're starting to run out a little time. So I want to get through everybody and so i'm curious to know what you think I well first of all now, I know why the son-in-law and um And and his daughter couldn't get clearances. I couldn't understand that but obviously we're learning about the financial Backgrounds are just as important as whether they're spying for anybody. But anyway Um, I wanted to say that as far as I've read it's the ducha bank Who has who has given donald his loans? Nobody else has been willing to finance him since his debacles of financial loss And and bankruptcy uh in atlantic city. He just blew everything there and elsewhere So it's only don't you blink and they're under ducha bank was fined millions of dollars and fines With a direct leak of money laundering With russia Yes, so something is going so this that's the only place he has to go now Can they cough up more to cover him on this? I think you're right tim. He needs to unload all the assets Is in as far as their work. Maybe that includes marlago god knows but we'll see I mean, but he's always pulling the genie out of the hat or but the rabbit. I guess He gets out and it's a green rabbit Well, maybe it's the shell game analogy that we should be looking at more so than pulling a rabbit out of the hat Is is the o3 card monti? Routine that he knows so well from being a new yorker. Thank you stephanie. Hey winston, um Ivanka trump got 20 million dollars In the form of a consulting fee at the exact identical time. She was considered an employee I didn't know you can get a consulting fee and be an employee at the same time But apparently in donald trump's world you can be um When the 20 million dollar consulting fee be subject to fika Social security medicare all the deductions that any other employee would have to have come out of their paycheck Yet, um, that doesn't seem to be the case with the 20 million dollars. What's what are your thoughts about to avonkin or 20 million and Just a whole tax debacle report from the new york times. Go ahead winston Well, first of all his base doesn't care and like you said either it shows that he's smart So they'll just either dismiss it as our system is broken that allows us to happen and our furor is smart Right and so that's what they're thinking our leader is smart and so he can get away with it and good for him I think the more important Story yesterday was about the proud boys and saying stand stand back and and and uh, and wait, you know Stand by and and these other things. I mean, there's so many things that happened this week The tax thing it doesn't make a difference. Well, okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna dispute that or I'm gonna take issue with that because if you're an american construction worker a nurse Hard work in person that works. They're 40 50 hours a week And it has barely enough to have any time money left over and you pay your fair share taxes Is this going to rub you the wrong way that donald trump for years paid zero taxes? And certainly in two years paid 750 dollars when you're a when you're a A restaurant server or a construction worker or a placement and you've paid thousands of dollars of taxes Is this going to rub you the wrong way? No with all of the revelations We've had about donald trump over the last four years nothing makes a difference with them. So I would say no Well, I think that new york times has a good article that was a trump center warning. Let's take it seriously Washington post as the rice bag is burning. Um, if you wanted a good debrief of in a humorous way seth miers had a Funny take down on a closer look. Uh, we had Uh, you know some really important news this week that just is now like the cdc director I think jay was mentioning that that says that his you know scott atlas everything that he says is false I It doesn't it doesn't matter. I don't think it will matter going in I think that's just some bold and people and he was blowing the dog whistle for the ones that wanted to hear it The people that saw his behavior just said good. We have a strong leader in there And it won't make a difference. But I would I would love to be wrong in that and And that it would resonate with people and say, you know what? He probably should pay a little bit more than 750 bucks to keep the government Yeah, yeah, okay. Thank you so much. Winston. All right lightning round for you, synthia Christopher ray FBI director has come out and explicitly stated there is no fraudulent Truth that mail-in ballots Uh are defective. He came out and said it. He spoke truth to power just like uh, Dr. Renfield said, you know masses are important. It's the most effective way to keep uh, coven from spreading Furthermore that children can be affected by coven 19 So you have two people who have come out and really put their necks on the line Are they going to keep their jobs? Is donald trump going to get rid of them before the election? Well, if he doesn't get rid of them, he will discredit them in profound ways. You know, I believe To speak to the taxes really quick. I gotta say I live on just under 20,000 a year a year. Okay, exactly That's about 1500 bucks a month max. Okay um at the end of that year because a thousand dollars a month is um Unearned income is what they call it because it's alimony. I pay 500 dollars a year in taxes because of that And so so when I saw him, you know with this 750 a month a year and I thought I I literally lost my mind a little bit as the numbers started to sort of clench in my brain I really Was on my feet screaming at the television And so it affected you adversely one last thing I have to say because I think it's really cool Uh, Sean Carter is quoted as saying a wise man told me don't argue with fools because from a distance No one can tell who's who As far as the debates go. All right. Well, you get the last the good blanket statement You get the last clever statement of the uh the show today. So We've run out of time and unfortunately I I wanted to talk so much more about the All the topics that we discussed today, but 28 minutes goes very quickly. I want to say thank you to everyone jay fidel Stephanie dalton winston welch and synthia leeson claire. Thank you so much. Join us next week 11 o'clock wednesday. I'm tim epichel your host aloha