 Welcome back, everyone. I've just started the recording of this session. OK, so I see the question that Charles has put in the chat. Charles asked, how do you use the Bible to talk to an agnostic, yet he doesn't believe the Bible? And that's true. Some people will not be willing to accept theological answers. That means when we quote chapter and verse, they don't want to listen to it because they don't see the Bible the way we see it. For us, we see this is truth. They don't see it that way. So what do we do? So in most of the, in such cases, we have to start off with either a philosophical approach or a scientific evidence-based approach or a supernatural approach, meaning we can't take the theological approach because they don't want to listen to what the Bible says. So as we look at some of the responses that we are going to give today and next week when we talk about the existence of God, creator and creation, we will have both a philosophical approach that is using simple logic and we will have a scientific approach which is using evidence-based and say, look at these things. So some people will listen to either a philosophical approach or a scientific evidence-based approach. Then maybe they will open up later to a theological. What does the Bible say? I think a great example of this approach is in Acts 17 when you think about the way the apostle, I'll just take a few minutes on this and get back to the course. When you look at the way the apostle Paul approached Athens, in Athens, like we said, was the intellectual capital of the world at that time. Prior to the apostle Paul 300 years before that, we had great philosophers who had come out of Athens, the Greek philosophers. So Paul is coming into a city that is very intellectual. They like to talk. They like to discuss and all of those things. What does Paul do? Paul surveys the city. He gets a feel of what are the things they connect with. And one of the things he notices at Athens at that time is it's pretty religious because they have altars for every known god or goddess. And they even have an altar to the unknown god. So that's the nature of the city. They are spiritual. They are very philosophical. But they worship every kind of god and goddess, and including to the unknown god. And Paul uses that as a starting point. So when he's called before Eropagus, which is the leaders of this whole intellectual city, and he's made to talk about Jesus, he starts with that. He says, hey, guys, I'm just paraphrasing it. So I walked around your city. You've got a beautiful city. And I noticed you have a lot of altars, a lot of to all kinds of gods. But I also noticed that you have an altar to the unknown gods. And I want to talk to you about that unknown god. And he starts talking to them. It's very interesting. So the point is this, you start off where people are. If they have a link to receive philosophical explanation, OK, you use that. If they have a link to receive a scientific explanation, use that. If they are so very spiritual, supernatural, people who want to be a spiritual, like the Jews require a sign, they are there. OK, you start with that. And then, of course, eventually we'll have to lead them to this is what the Bible says. OK? Right. So let's get back to our course content. I'll just share what we were talking about. Share what we were. Louie, did you have a question? All right, so talking about the existence of God, we're just going to quickly go through what we believe. And then how do we communicate that to either an atheist or an agnostic? We will talk some of it today. And then tomorrow or next week, we'll get into creator and creation. It's all connected in the existence of God, the existence of a creator, and the creation. It's all connected. So it's actually one lesson that I've broken it down into smaller portions. But when we put all this together, then we can formulate an answer, both a philosophical and a scientific answer to people. But let's just clarify our own position. What do we believe? We believe in an infinite being. God is an infinite being who always existed and is self-existent. So the mountains from everlasting to everlasting, you are God. That means he's always been there, and he always will be. There is no beginning, no end for God. He's always been there. He's infinite. He counts the number of stars. He calls them by name, his understanding is infinite. So God is great. He's beyond our ability to comprehend. And he's also self-existent. And he doesn't faint in his power. So he has endless power, endless strength. And this God created the universe. So we believe that, that this eternal God always was there. He created everything. So the Bible tells us, God created the heavens, the earth. And we believe that through him, everything was made. And we also believe that he did this in seven days. And we will pick up some of the questions. And I've kind of collected some of the questions that have come up in previous years, previous batches. So it would be interesting just to look at those questions. So one big question which we need to discuss is, how can we say God created everything in seven days? Everything on earth, seven days. So Genesis says, six days he worked, seventh day he rested. So this was done in a week's time. How do we say that? How do we defend that? That's a common question. So what we believe, we believe the Genesis account. Six days God put everything on the earth that he wanted, and he rested the seventh day. So in six days the Lord made the heavens, the earth. Genesis, Exodus 20 verse 11, and all that is in them. So this is what we believe. And everything came out of him. It finds his purpose in him. And then we also believe, number three, that God created everything in an initial mature state. So any interest to man? So the Bible does not present an evolutionary process in creation. Why? Because God spoke and it was done. When God said, let the earth bring forth, the earth brought forth. When he made man, he didn't make a cell and wait for 100,000 years for that cell to somehow become a man. No, he formed a mature man. He formed man out of the dust of the earth, breathed into him, and he became a living being. And just for illustration purpose, let's say God, Adam was created one second earlier. And if Adam was brought to you and me today and you ask, how old is he? I'm just guessing, I don't know. But he would say, well, he's probably 50 years, 40 years old, or something, a mature person. We don't imagine Adam as a baby, a two-month-old baby or a eight-month-old baby. Now, we, from Genesis account, we see he was a mature man. And he was just in an instant formed. So in the creative act of God, three things came into play, time, power, energy, and intelligence, design. So time, energy, and design was compressed into an instant. That's what we believe. That when God created, he created things in a mature form. That means, and I'm just repeating, in the creative act of God, time, energy, and design was compressed and expressed in an instant. None of these had to evolve. So for example, in the evolutionary process, the underlying premise is that design evolves. So there is a gradual, slow improvement in design. That's the underlying premise. Now, in the way we live life, that is true. There is always an improvement in design. You build a watch, and over time, you make it better. You build a car, over time, you make it better. So in our realm of understanding, in our experience, that is how it is, design improves over time, but not so with God. In the creative act of God, God is perfect. He's all wisdom. So design already was there. And in an instant, it was expressed. When he said, when he breathed into Adam, when he formed man out of the dust of the earth, and he breathed into him in an instant, every aspect of the cell, the DNA, and everything in the cell, and all the organs, everything came into existence. Design came into existence in an instant. So what in our minds takes a lot of time, and it takes a lot of energy, and is a process, in the creative act of God, took place in an instant. So that's what we believe based on scripture. And as God spoke, it was done. God breathed, and it happened. Fourthly, what do we believe? We believe that God has given us proof of his existence. And one of his biggest proofs, evidence of his existence is his creation. And so this is, again, a theological point. And the point is, in Romans 1, 19 to 22, can somebody read that for us? I know it's there in the notes, but it'd be nice to just read the scripture. Can somebody please read that for us? Romans 1, 19 to 22, please. I'll read, sir. All right, for a moment, I got a little scared. I thought everybody left the class. OK, you're all there. OK, go ahead, Maggie. Please read it. Romans 1, 19 to 22 says, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse. Because although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God. No way, they're thankful, but became shoe-tower in their thought. And their foolish hearts were darkened, professing to be wise they became fools. Thank you, sir. Thank you. So what is Paul saying? And in our third year, we are going to study the book of Romans. And it's going to be a very fascinating study. But here, what is Paul saying? He begins his whole teaching by beginning with the existence of God and the fact that God has given evidence of his existence in creation. He says, what we want to know about God, verse 19, what we don't want to know about God, he's made it very plain to us. God has shown it to us. So God is not hiding from us. God has made himself, he's revealed himself. And how has he done it? Verse 20, Paul says, the invisible attributes of God are clearly seen in his creation, in the things that he has made. So the attributes of God are revealed to us in his creation. And that we can all understand. For example, you talk about the infinite attribute of God. You look at creation, it's infinite. We just use certain numbers. We say, well, there are billions of stars. There are so many countless number of galaxies. We don't know how big this universe is. And we don't know if there could be other universes beyond ours. And basically, we are saying creation is infinite. Well, we are talking about the infinite attribute of God. It's revealed in creation. And like that, we can look into a single cell and you examine the cell and you say, wow, there's so much design here. Well, that's the wisdom of God revealed in the things he has made. Or we look at the order in which things are happening around us. And we say, that's the wisdom of God. God is a God of order. So the attributes of God have been revealed in the things he has made. So as far as God is concerned, he said, look, I've made myself known to you and you are without excuse. That's the end of verse 20. Nobody, as far as God is concerned, nobody can say, God, you didn't tell me you were there. God is saying, hello, all around creation. I'm telling you, I'm there. There's no excuse. But what is our problem? Verse 21, even though we are looking at the evidence, you're turning away from it. Even though they knew God, they didn't glorify him as God, but became foolish in their thoughts and, you know, vain in their thoughts and foolish in their hearts and they became fools. In other words, we are willfully choosing to turn away from the evidence. They knew God, but they don't want to glorify him as God. They're seeing the evidence, but they don't accept the evidence, right? So that's our problem. But as far as God is concerned, he's saying, look, I've made myself given the evidence of my existence in the things I've made. And the scriptures, you know, in several places are pointing to that. They're saying, you know, the heavens declare the glory of God, you know, every day the creation is telling us God is and it's, you know, Psalm 139. The fact that the way we are made is showing us how marvelous, how great his handiwork is, right? So ultimately it's the fool who says there is no God, Psalm 14 verse one. So this is what we believe. Now, how do we present a case for the existence of God to an atheist, an agnostic and so on, right? So now we've made, we've understood the positions of the atheists and the agnostics. I'm not going to repeat that. The atheist has claimed infinite knowledge and the agnostic has said, well, you can't be sure. So how do we respond to that, right? And, you know, and people have made all kinds of, you know, statements which are really against what we just read in Romans one, right? So for instance, Bertrand Russell is supposed to have said, you know, when he stands before God, you will ask him, why did you give so little evidence of your existence? Why did you give so little evidence of your existence? Interesting question. You're going to ask God, why did you give so little evidence of your existence? And God is saying, all of creation is staring you in the face day and night, near and far and saying, I am there, you know. So this is how we are thinking. We are thinking, saying, oh God, where are you? You're not giving any evidence. And God is saying, look, everything around you is an evidence of me being there. Okay, so, you know, and just think about this whole thing. When people live without God, what implications, what are the ramifications of that? You know, when you say there is no God, immediately we are saying there is no moral law. There is no moral law, you know. And moral law can just be modified and redefined with time is what people are saying. But that is actually against logic because logic says truth is timeless. Truth doesn't change with time. Truth cannot be redefined with time. And truth does not degrade with time. A parallel to that in the physical world is light. And many times in scripture, truth and light are compared. The light we are receiving today is so many light years away. And some of the light that is coming from distant stars are millions of light years away. But you know, it's still light. It hasn't changed. It is light. Light has not changed with light years of time. It is still light, just an analogy in a physical realm. Therefore, truth is timeless. Now, just because this light has traveled so many millions of miles and comes to us, many millions of light years away doesn't change into something else. Now it is still light, it hasn't changed. Truth doesn't change with time. Truth cannot be redefined with time. Truth cannot degrade with time. That is truth. Otherwise it is not truth. So how a man without God redefines truth. It says, you know, that's what they believed so many hundreds of years ago, but today we are different. We can adjust it like this. That means what was not acceptable then is okay now. So they redefine moral law. Okay? So that's one impact when man lives without God. Also when man lives without God, what happens? Life becomes meaningless. Life is, you know, what is the end and end the purpose of everything, you know? There's no ultimate meaning. And so that's why, you know, Godlessness leads to despondency. It leads to a meaningless life. I mean, at some point it's okay, what was the purpose of my existence? Even if I contributed something meaningful, what was it for? What purpose would it serve? You know, so life becomes meaningless. There is no hope. You know, at the end of it, there's nothing to look forward to. And there is no recovery. That means if things go wrong, it's the end of everything. But this is the opposite when we believe in God and know that God is at work in our lives, okay? So how do we go about establishing or presenting a case for the evident existence of God? Number one, okay? So this is a philosophical approach primarily, but then we will get into the scientific approach as we extend this into the next chapter, right? So first one, there's a philosophical argument, cause and effect, right? That means you say that you can't have an effect without a cause or every effect must have a cause. So we give a simple example, you know, if, and you can think of any lots of examples, just as simple ones here. Suppose a ball, you're sitting in a room and a ball comes flying into the room and we just say, well, it just appeared and just came into the room. Would you accept it? No. Most often you're gonna look out the window to see who threw the ball. Why? Because implicitly we accept this truth or this fact, this cause and effect in everything that if we are seeing something happen, there is a reason to that. There is a cause to what the effect we're saying. So we would not, you know, just simply say, well, it just happened. No, there is a cause for every effect. And so what we are saying is the creator is the cause for the creation. The universe had a beginning and therefore for that beginning to take place, that cause is the creator, God created. So the cause and effect argument, right? Number two, we'll just go through this and then we can discuss, okay? Number two, similarly, we extend the cause and effect to something more complex, which is design or intelligence. Intelligence doesn't happen in a vacuum. Intelligence calls for an intelligent being. Design calls for a designer. Creation calls for a creator. So let me say, this is the second one. Again, it's a philosophical statement, philosophical argument. We are saying, look, we know that design doesn't happen by chance. Design doesn't happen by chance. Design requires an intelligent designer. So if I put something out there, like if I put my mobile phone and or you put a nice watch, we used to have those old wristwatches with two hands in it nowadays. Everybody, most people have digital watches. But anyway, you put any device that we use these days. And suppose you told somebody, hey, this mobile phone just evolved here. It took just about three billion years. It all started with a few carbon cells and somehow all these things just came and they assembled themselves. So they landed here, you wouldn't believe that. That's not, no one will accept that. Say, no, there's so much of intelligence in a single mobile phone. It took the brains of many people to put that together because there is intelligence. We implicitly accept that it was the work of intelligent beings. So that's the second argument. And we will get into the scientific side of these things in the next chapter, next week. The fact that there is so much design all around us in what we see is pointing to an intelligent designer. The third argument, a third thing that we can get people to consider. And again, just to back up here, one common example that you can use which people can easily relate to is, if you have your box, the Scrabble pieces, you've got all these alphabets in it, and let's say you have a box of these Scrabble pieces, and if you just throw it on the ground, what is the probability that these pieces will assemble in intelligent words and form a sentence and actually create a very nice poem? That is like impossible, period. It's gonna take somebody, intelligence, to put those pieces together, to form intelligent sentence words, sentences, and then paragraphs and become a poem. So that's just another example. You can keep trying how many, how many of our times you want to throw the Scrabble pieces, they're not gonna fall nicely into some intelligent, meaningful poem, it's not gonna happen. Let's finish this and then we will take up questions and discuss. Number three, the third philosophical argument or reasoning we can present to people is the whole issue of morality and rationality. Now, if you have something which is just matter, it's just matter, you have a stone, can matter, lifeless matter, produce what we write in the book, referred to as morality, which is a sense of right and wrong, and can lifeless matter produce rationality, which is a sense of reason, the ability to analyze logic and establish truth. So this conscious mind that we have, this sense of right and wrong, the sense of morality and rationality, could it come out of lifeless matter? Because what ultimately we are saying is, even though at this point, I mean, we already have the capacity morality and rationality, if you're going back to the whole theory of the world coming out of all of creation or the nature coming out of matter, so whether they were just these cells or sorry, these carbon atoms, and then they evolved, evolved, evolved, there was this big explosion and matter formed, and then out of that, some what we call as life came in, but ultimately we are saying we are all matter. If I am just matter, what about the conscious mind and what about rationality? What is that? Can matter produce this? Can matter somehow evolve and acquire sense of morality and rationality? So again, this is a silly example, but take a stone, put a rock here, and leave it for 100,000 years. Will the rock in some way be able to acquire a sense of morality and rationality? Can it somehow evolve into that? No. So matter, so if I am just matter and have evolved over time into where I am from, just matter, then where did I get the ability for morality that something is right, something is wrong, and the ability to have reason and logic, where did that come from? So again, this is a philosophical question because matter can acquire it and matter by itself cannot evolve into it. So what we say is this capacity had to be imparted to created beings and we have higher level, we as human beings, we have a different sense of morality and rationality. We're not like animals, we're not like that. We have a higher sense of morality and rationality. So it has to be something that was given to us rather than something be acquired if we were just matter that has evolved to a higher state. Lastly is the supernatural phenomena, right? So the first three were philosophical arguments. The fourth one is a spiritual supernatural argument which is, hey, what about people? What about supernatural phenomena? And we can talk about examples, demons. Have you seen people who are demon possessed? How they behave? And some of us have and the phenomenon of demonic possession cannot be, what is it? Cannot be disregarded because it's real. You can see it and when we go on ministry and mention to people, you see demonic manifestations. I mean, it's there, you see people and it cannot be explained psychologically. You know, psychologists and psychology only takes us so far in mental illness problems but demonic manifestations are paranormal. It's beyond what can be explained by psychology and then you see them being delivered in the name of Jesus and you see them being restored to normalcy and being fine. But this was the same person who was manifesting or went through all of that but now the same person is fine. There was no, you know, how do you explain it? And it was all done in the name of Jesus. So this is just one example of a supernatural phenomena, something happening in the name of Jesus and if the name of Jesus was not real, not powerful, this change would never have happened. That means there is something to that name which is pointing to us to the existence of someone beyond the realm of our, what we can see and understand. Okay, so I'm going to pause here. We're going to have a time for question and discussion. So let's just quickly summarize what we did today and then we can take up some things to discuss here. So what we have said is, what we did today is simply we said, okay, this is what we believe about God. God is eternal, God is infinite, God is powerful, God is creator. From the Bible point of view, this is what we believe. And we believe that what the Bible is saying about creation is true, that God created everything and the things that are on the earth, he did it just like it says in Genesis one. Six days he did it and seventh day he rested. So that is what we believe is that in creation, time, energy and design was all put together in an all just came together an instant which is the creative act of God. We believe that. But there are people who don't believe that and broadly speaking, they are atheists and there are agnostics. So how can we share with them what we believe? We gave today three philosophical statements, one from a spiritual supernatural perspective. Next week we get into scientific, okay? So philosophical statements, one cause and effect. And now these philosophical statements, many people will accept those who like to think through but think through and say, yeah, I understand what you're saying, right? So cause and effect, we understand that for every effect that we see that has to be a cause. The light comes on because somebody turned on the switch, right? Second, we talked about design and designer. Intelligence doesn't happen by chance. It cannot happen at random. It happens because there is an intelligent being. That's like an argument. Third, philosophical argument. So first cause and effect, design and designer. Third, philosophical argument is lifeless matter cannot somehow acquire morality and rationality. Cannot, impossible, we will accept that. So if I am just a matter, just made up of cells that are somehow functioning intelligently, well, first of all, how did my cells start functioning intelligently? And secondly is how come this lifeless matter acquire morality and rationality? Where did it come from? Okay, so these are three philosophical arguments. And then one is a supernatural argument. Okay, there's the reality of demon possession and deliverance. How do you explain that? Okay, so we can present these two people who are willing to listen, get them to think, right? And then next week, we continue with this class. We will talk about creator and creation from a scientific perspective for those who are interested in those kinds of discussion, okay? Let me just look at the comments that are in the chat and see any, okay? We answered Charles, Rose, man is convinced it has no DC, so send the thing. See, I believe, yes, that's John 20. Kennedy, if Christians think they're not creeds and like do not care, all right. Let's see Kennedy's question here. I'm trying to understand the question. If creation is infinite, did God create sin like do not kill, kill by the angels? I'm trying to understand the question. Did God create sin? Kennedy, I'm not sure if I understood your question, but let me, I think your question is, did God create sin? So let's go back to the very first sin that we see in the Bible. And when you think about it, it is very, very interesting. The first sin that we have recorded for us in the Bible took place in heaven. It took place in the very presence of God. It took place in the most glorious presence of God. There was Lucifer. He was called the son of the morning. And you can imagine somebody standing before God. He is the archangel, the chief of the worship angels of God in charge of the worship of God. And he is there in the very glory presence of God. And yet this angel, Lucifer, son of the morning, the worship angel, full of wisdom and beauty, he sinned. Where did this sin come from? There was no evil. There's no evil at all. God had not created anything. What was his sin? It was a sin of pride. What led to that sin? Self-deception. Self-deception led to the first sin. The first sin was pride. We know it because Isaiah 14, and also 1 Timothy chapter three, identify this for us. Isaiah 14, we read about Lucifer saying, I will ascend to the throne of the most high. I will be like the most high. And it was all about I will. And then 1 Timothy three, give you the exact verse, the Apostle Paul. And verse six, 1 Timothy three, six, Paul says, look, this was the sin of Lucifer. He fell into pride. Pride. But how did it happen? Did somebody tempt him or anything? No. What caused him to go into pride? It was self-deception. He deceived his own self. What a self-deception. It is to think something wrong about yourself, which is to think about yourself, which is something that is not true. He thought he could become like God. So that was the first sin. So God didn't create that. It was Lucifer's own self-deception to think that he could become like God, right? So to answer your question, Kennedy, God did not create sin. So when we say God is infinite and God created everything, he didn't create evil, right? He didn't create evil. It came out of the first sin of self-deception and so on. And that's why you find in James in the book of James chapter one, he warns us so much against self-deception because that is the highest, I would say, the first sin, Lucifer committed. I don't know if I answered your question, Kennedy, but I tried. Charles. Okay, Charles was making a comment. I need this question. We say that angels are ministering spirit. They were created magnifying glory. And how is it that Lucifer had a desire to be like God? I don't understand. Yeah, so Anita, like even I don't understand because this is something very hard for us to comprehend. How could an angel of God, a created being of God, who was so endowed with wisdom and beauty and all of that, how could that angel have this wrong thinking? How could that? So I see Tharon sharing the, he says, free will, yeah, that is true. So God has given us all the freedom to think and make our choices and all of that. And so this angel chose to think like this. I will take the place of God. Now, how could he have come to that conclusion? I don't know, I don't have an answer. How could he have come? And maybe he was so great and he thought, well, it's easy to become like God. Maybe he forgot that he was a created being. I don't know. But this is what the scripture tells us happened. And that's what we believe. And how could that angel think like this? I don't know. So yeah, so angelic beings, yes, Shikma, we could say that angels have a free will because they are choosing to be aligned to God, whereas some angels chose to depart from God. If they didn't have a free will, they would not have been allowed to do that, right? But some angels chose to depart. You know, we read about in Revelation 12 where Satan drew a third of the angels with him and then he was cast out of heaven. So verse four, Revelation 12, four, right? So obviously Lucifer and the angels that chose to go with him, but also deceived. So that means not only did Lucifer deceive himself, but he ended up deceiving one out of every three angels, the third of the angels, and they chose to go with him. So that's why we say, you know, angels have a free will, but the angels that are with God today have chosen to be there in the presence of God. Good question. So we're going to close here today. I want you to continue to think about these things and come with questions next week as we develop this. So what we are going to be discussing again next week is an extension of what we did today. Today we just talked about the existence of God. Next week we're going to talk about creator and creation. Okay, it's an extension of what we discussed today. How do we talk to people about the existence of a creator and creation? Okay, so think about it. If you have come up with your questions, next week will be a little bit more scientific. We will get into some scientific aspects and as we present and then to people, we'll discuss it. And then I'm sure that it'll generate some thoughts and some questions and we can discuss it. Okay, let's close in prayer. I want somebody to please pray with us and dismiss us. We'll get ready for our next class. Anyone can please pray. Somebody wants to pray. Rupa, do you want to pray? Okay, sir. Father God, we come to your throne of grace, Master. Thank you for this time of enlightenment, Father. We stand in awe of your creation and the way you made everything so beautiful, Father God. We just stand in awe of your design of everything, Master. We thank and praise you as we continue to learn at your feet, Lord. Open our eyes of understanding, Father. Help us, Father, let the truth be hidden in our hearts, Lord and help us to be your faithful Father witnesses in spreading that truth. Thank you for the past and thank you for each one of us, Father. Thank you for this privilege of knowing you and loving you and following you in Jesus' name. Amen. Thank you, sir. Thank you, everyone. We'll pick this up next week, have a quick break and we'll join in the other class. Thank you. Bye now. Thank you, Master. God bless, everyone. Thank you. Thank you, Master. Thank you. Thank you, everyone.