 City councillors, please take their seats with city councillors, please begin to find their seats City councillors That means you councillor Dean if you are a city councillor she has to Good evening, I would like to convene this regular meeting of the city council at 7 15 Would you please rise and join with me in resigning the Pledge of Allegiance? Okay, first item on the agenda is the agenda and I know that I will recognize councillor nodel and note that she will be very pleased to not be reading this for about five minutes tonight Councilor nodel President right I move to amend our agenda and to adopt it as follows on communication on item 5.03 the communication by the downtown improvement district note the map for this item and these are both Per chief of staff Riddell note revised version and title change for agenda item 5.04 the resolution call for an open process seeking to support all Burlington's NPA's Sponsors councillors Hartnett jang pine and Tracy per councillor jang Thank you councillor. No doubt Any seconded by a councillor busher any discussion hearing none all those in favor of the agenda as amended, please say aye Any opposed we have our agenda for this evening item number two is a report from channel 17 And we have the director of channel 17 lauren glendavidian here Welcome lauren and we look forward to this report from you. Good evening everyone Hello, hello. Thank you. I'm lauren glendavidian, and I'm the executive director of CCTV Center for Media and Democracy And we operate channel 17 town meeting television, which is cable casting live to the masses Burlington telecom Comcast and YouTube and You may know, but you can get a version of the Transcript on YouTube a searchable version on YouTube Okay, and I note that this is one person testifying tonight that I don't have to tell how to use the microphone exactly We're trying So annually we try to come and give channel 17 an update I mean an update about channel 17 to the city council and the other members of the municipal family of channel 17 and This year we provided you with a report, which I imagine you at least have skimmed. I'm happy to answer any questions about the report itself The the main message today is that the funding for the channel has declined By about 5% or about $50,000 because Comcast has reclassified some of its income Based on generally accepted accounting principles and the result has been a half a million dollar decline in funding across the state But for channel 17, it's about $50,000 So we the trustees which include representatives from each one of the member communities have asked me to Bring this question to each of the municipalities and ask you to double your annual contribution From 12 to $24,000 for the support of channel 17 The city of Burlington also makes an additional $20,000 contribution towards the purchase of programming above and beyond What you are Entitled to under the channel 17 contract. So this is not that request This is for your baseline contribution to channel 17 Which started in about 2006 and has increased Slowly during that time So I'm happy to answer any questions because I know you have a lot on your agenda. I'm happy to go into that into more detail Jane you may have some thoughts about what would be helpful to add. I Will pause All right. Thank you Counselor busher has a question and counselor pine so first of all we're so grateful for the services that you provide and For so many people that I represent they really do get their information from channel 17 They're unable to attend meetings and they watch them whether they're NPAs or any other kind of meeting And I feel that you know the $20,000 that we put in to have additional coverage And I can't recall learn exactly what that is but as far as you know covering the DRB meetings and DPW meetings are so really important for people because that's as I say it's the finger on the pulse That's where you find out what's going on in your city overall. It may not be in your neighborhood But it's what's happening in your city and I think most residents care about that especially when it's something significant So anyways enough said about that. I am going to make a request in the future I had difficulty Really understanding your budgetary needs. I mean you spelled them out what you need But I didn't understand the expenses and then the revenue sources They were they're here, but they're not in one spreadsheet And so I couldn't really see that shortfall that you were stating and so it would have been helpful for me to Realize that on my own also with it. I don't also have you pointed out, but And for me also it would be good because I think to understand When we spend additional dollars how those dollars are used to Support our community. So these are just comments that I've made This is very complete and I once again, I appreciate everything you do And I'm really glad you come in person to the city council so that you can hear all of our concerns And we can get an update from you about the challenges you're facing. So thank you I'm happy to I can send that spreadsheet tonight. That's no problem that shows what you're asking Thank you for the comments. I also just wanted to add that this year we've We've increased our coverage to include the Burlington Police Commission and the Airport Commission And that is because we had a lot of requests from the communities not just Burlington people in the communities So I just want you to know we've opted to make that To do that in order to meet community needs and you can tell people are watching those meetings at key times Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Councilor Burscher. Councilor Pine Thank You mr. President the question I have is is are all the member communities seeing a similar Increase in terms of percentage of their contribution exactly. Yeah, so the way Burlington is the largest has the largest subscriber base Although it's smaller now with Burlington telecom, but essentially it's the largest subscriber base and South Burlington that follows And then the other communities are smaller so South Burlington provides 10,000 this and we've asked them to increase that to 20 and then Winniske Williston Essex and Essex Junction Are we've asked them to increase from 6 to 12,000? My other question is this does this form the new baseline? Is this what we're going to be looking at going forward? So yes, I mean I think it's important to point out I mean this is not the only threat to the funding of these of these channels and I think some of you have heard about the FCC's Current efforts to essentially subtract Any kind of public interest requirement from the franchise fees Used to fund peg so the FCC is considering that now The time is gonna come I would say within the next decade that you will be asked to support the coverage of your meetings At the cost of what it costs because there will be less and less cable revenue For a variety of reasons being squeezed by Comcast being squeezed by regulators and just court cable cord cutting So I think this is not the last time we're gonna come to you. I think this is actually the beginning of us Determining what it really costs the communities to have this coverage and Seeing if we can be in partnership to make sure we can continue this important coverage That was actually my last question is how close does this contribution come to covering that real cost? So do you know that does the decline was about 50,000 and this would generate 46,000 No, I meant how close does our contribution come to covering our full cost of the service we get for it? Well, you can imagine that being here for three to five three hours It costs about a thousand dollars a meeting To cover your meetings and so just think about how many meetings that we're covering for you So that's 72 a year just the city council six not just city council six times 12 six meetings 72 so it's at least seventy two thousand dollars, but it's probably more like a hundred Thousand dollars is what it costs and that's just for meeting coverage stick with the system. I'll stick with this that's that That is just meeting coverage. That's not that channel Right, so it's not insignificant the contribution that cable subscribers are making to the coverage of these meetings It's important to know Any other counselor? counselor no doubt Thank you Just want to disclose. I am a member of the board of cctv And of course we have a representative to the board of channel 17 Which I believe is counselor Hartnett, is that correct? Yes And so there he's kind of our that counselors our liaison, but just as a member of the board I just want to reinforce the message that That if we want to continue to have the kind of Public access to our work that we currently have through channel 17 That we are going to have to find a way to pay pay more than we're currently paying It just is a reality and the board is has been out in front of the the kind of declining Cable revenues for quite some time. We've been doing strategic planning to transition to a more digital ways to access our work Trying to you know think about other ways to get revenue But we will always need cctv will always need core funding from Municipalities to pay for this work And I think that the value of it is foreign access of even what you know, we'll be paying Hopefully when we are able to Incorporate $24,000 into the FY 2020 budget So I think the timing is good because we're just early in our budget process So I hope that the members of board of finance can kind of keep this in mind as we move deeper into that process Thank you. Thank you counselor no doubt any other counselor counselor Shannon Thank you and thank you for your report you mentioned in the report and again reiterated that That cord cutting is cutting into your revenue and I think that that's a really important thing to emphasize as we're trying We're encouraging people to cut the cord because it's going to save all of our residents money and cable is becoming increasingly expensive because We you know Burlington telecom can't control the costs that the companies charge us to provide that cable access So the price on that keeps going up and up Which is one of the reasons Burlington telecom is pushing cord cutting, but as we do that I Wonder if there is an opportunity to prove to put a line item on on Is it possible to put a line item on internet bills? And maybe it would be state legislation To assure that as we cut the cords that the internet providers are still funding our You know public access that you provide So the states are preempted from putting any taxes on Telecom services by the federal government Because believe me the cable companies have thought of that already But that doesn't mean that the legislature can't consider an allocation a legislative allocation as opposed to a line item So we are in the process now of speaking with members of Senate appropriations In fact, I'm going tomorrow to meet with Jane Kitchell to see if we might be able to Offset some of these losses with the legislative appropriation But wouldn't the difference be between it being part of your internet service versus Going into the coming from the general fund of of taxes and and vying with everything else that it competes with in that field Right I'm happy to talk about telecom policy at great length as you could imagine But I will say that we have been working to on this question of Franchise fees for any telecom carrier because fundamentally they're using the same public rights of way and in fact Comcast is using the same public rights of way and the same wires to provide cable and internet and Parsing it to say we have no public interest requirements on the internet side And they're backed up by Congress on this and they're backed up by the FCC on this So it's a fight we've been fighting for a long time and we're not winning on that front So it's a great idea But it doesn't have legs at the moment Thank you for clarifying that yeah, thank you counsel Shannon any other counselor Lauren just if I'm not advocating for this, but if communities did not double that funding Where would that leave channel 17? Would it mean cut back in services? That's what it basically would mean, right? Yeah, and also as Jane mentioned, we're working to diversify our funding So when you get your channel 17 CCTV fundraising letter in the week or so You'll know that we're also trying to raise money the annual fund way the philanthropic way So we're trying to diversify that way and for the past 20 years CCTV has diversified by taking up different kinds of projects To create different kinds of funding streams So we're always being as creative as we possibly can But this this cut was a fast one I mean the the cable revenue is is like this It's sort of plateauing and starting to go down slowly because of court cutting But this reclassification of revenue Was a big fast Thank you All right. Thank you very much Lauren Glendavidian. We appreciate as everybody's already said we appreciate channel 17 so much You do an incredible job and We and everybody that watch the channel 17 is very thankful for it And I just like to invite you all to our holiday party on Thursday at 5 o'clock. You're welcome to join us Thank you. All right. Thank you With that we will close out that report item number two And go to the number three, which is the public forum time certain 730. It is 733. So we'll open the public forum I have slips here from people who would like to speak if anybody Hasn't filled one out wants to there are slips over here in the corner in the table Bring them them up to the clerk's office over here and they'll get them up to me And you will have three minutes to tell us whatever you want to tell us And we'll start out tonight with Springer Harris to be followed by Chris Trombly Mr. Harris welcome. Thanks for coming Thank you. Councilor Wright Again, my name is Springer Harris. I'm a ward for resident member of the Burlington DRB I Am a I'm here to talk to you about item 5.03 the downtown improvement district I am a DID fee payer and I'm also a member of the didact the DID advisory committee formed by the administration to put forth a Recommendation to City Council and Charter change to put a vote on the ballot for town meeting day 2019 I've been on the didact since June of 2017. So we've been working for a year and a half to put together this proposal the finance committee just Approved four to one to send this to Charter change. It's now at the City Council And I am here to ask all city councillors to consider Moving that to the Charter change committee so that the Charter change committee can put that on the ballot If you are aware the didact was able to contract with one of the best One of the best consultancy country Consulting companies in the country on this topic kuma Brad Segal the president of that company has come to before you and given you a couple presentations about our downtown and The thing that I was most startled to see that I think you were as well Is that the grade of our downtown is much lower than what we'd like to see and that if we allow it to degrade further? The exponential cost to bring it up to where it currently is or to improve it may become so much So that we're not able to overcome it and therefore I would like to see you Approve this to go to Charter change and have the Charter change committee approve it to go to public vote So that we can get closer to the system that the rest of the country uses in a business improvement district Where there are is one district? Focusing to their efforts together to bring the pools of money together to focus on the downtown and to move it into a way where the fee pairs themselves have more of a Invested interest in how that money is being used, but I think you'll also find in the proposal that was put forth and Approved by the finance committee that if this is being done the Burlington way where we are Having City Council play a role in this. It's not going away. We're not selling out to private businesses City Council maintains a Level of control over this the community maintains a level of control If you look at the way that we have proposed Structuring the governance all stakeholders have a representative field in this committee, and I think as a result The downtown improvement district will be able to use Its new authorities to greatly improve our downtown and stop us from hitting this level to where our grade goes down too far To where we're never able to bring it back. So with that I would ask you to please approve this to go to Charter change committee. Thank you Thank You mr. Harris Chris Trombly's up next and in case I didn't say it There is a do have three minutes and there's a light system in front of you that The when the yellow light goes off here down to between a half a minute and a minute and then the red light means your time's up Mr. Trombly welcome. Thank you. Mayor Weinberger president right counselors here tonight to express my support for the Harden Jang a resolution regarding the MPA's You know it I joined the MPA's a few years ago And it's been a great opportunity for me to learn more about our Community and we're looking for a modest investment and encouraged by the language in the in the resolution as it kind of sets forth a Structured process against stakeholder input prior to making any changes to the size of both So I'm here to express that support and I hope others will adopt that as well. Thank you Thank You mr. Trombly Richard Hillier is up next to be followed by and McEnany Good evening mr. Hilliard welcome Good evening. Mr. Wright. Thank you president right My name is Richard Hilliard I've been active in the Ward 1 MPA for about 20 years And thank you city councillors for your interest in the MPA's It seems there's been a lot of dialogue today so I just like to thank the councillors who have been active in Recrafting a resolution that I believe may be discussed later on this evening Hopefully this will satisfy the goals of the mayor in his state of the city objective in strengthening Public engagement Working to review the role and Responsibilities of the MPA's and how the processes by which city departments work with the MPA's and other stakeholders in our community Can be improved and I imagine that most if not all NPA's would welcome that We would look forward We speaking personally I guess look forward to working with the city to review refresh And revitalize if necessary the MPA's but to cherish those aspects that were originally intended and Have been developed over the years which should be preserved When councillors no Dell with councillor Davis and Alice Reviewed the MPA process many years ago. I said that if the MPA's didn't exist the city would have to invent them I believe that now more than ever So thank you all Especially our East district city councillors for your support. Happy holidays. Thank you Thank you, Mr. Hilliard Annie Macan Annie Be followed by Albert Petraca Good evening. Welcome. Thank you. No one ever gets my name, right? That's really flattering So as many have said before BIDs Historically create downtowns that are hostile to homeless people and people of color because of increased police presence and overall privatization of public space However, some people have criticized this argument is overly emotional So I want to provide some research context if anyone wants a copy of my bibliography. It's an APA format I'm happy to email it to you a study done at the University of Washington surveyed out hundreds of police departments And found that most have policies that specifically target homeless populations a report filed by the United Nations One of many found the police departments discriminate against people of color particularly black people in the state of Vermont has the highest racial Disparity of arrests in the country. So when we talk about a DID this is the context that we should really be thinking about a Report produced by Berkeley law studied 189 business improvement districts in 69 cities It found that BIDs have an almost universal stated mission of safety cleaning hospitality outreach and landscaping services in practice the study found that BIDs spend most of their funding on Controlling architecture and aesthetics in the district including cleaning and redesigning parks Drafting and promoting legislation that privatizes community spaces for business interests and criminalizes poor and street-based people This included municipal and state legislation that promoted targeting harassing and outright banning Homeless people and buskers from the district for minor infractions something that we already see in Burlington Security with ambassadors. This is the exact language ambassadors or private officers to patrol public spaces again Something already being proposed here Opposing legislation that seeks to protect street-based people from criminalization such as attempts to overturn sit lie ordinances and here I quote some BIDs claim to offer services to homeless people However, our research finds that the outreach that BID employees provide is superficial to non-existent This service work often contributes to the exclusion of homeless people and ambassador programs function as an extension of the police force Over 350 homeless people were surveyed in this study and gave testimony that BID ambassadors were disrespectful and interrogated the homeless Research in some areas shows statistically significant evidence that BID's influence increasing rent in some places even doubling rent in less than 10 years To summarize these are the published results from one of the top law and research institutions in the country These results are not more important than the testimony of people with lived experience But I do hope they will be received as legitimate disincentive to expand the DID in Burlington. Thank you Thank You. Ms. McEnany Albert Petrarcha is up next To be followed by Kelly Devine. Good evening, Mr. Petrarcha First I'd like to say If one thinks like a racist In one talks like a racist in one votes Like a racist then one is a racist Before I begin my remarks, I'd like to correct something. Ms. Shannon said before the mural vote on October 15th She stated that a pledge was made to the mural investors That the mural would stay up for 10 years first off Mr.. Redmond who's sitting behind me here Testified before the mayor's mural task force and stated that there were no existing contracts or agreements with the investors Having read all 759 documents related to the mural those that have been released not the ones that haven't yet been released I have to agree with him So the lie that she told counsel before the vote Was either made up from whole cloth or based on unsubstantiated hearsay So Ms. Shannon You're both a fabricator as well excuse me mr. Petrarcha We are going to keep this civil and not start calling names to counselors. I have a First Amendment right well We your definition of civil and my definition of civil might be different singling out counselors and calling them names Need to be directed through the council president as I said individual counselors if you vote as a racist Speak as a racist than you are so me Shannon You're both a fabricator as well as a racist That's enough for having pimp for the mayor in the marketplace resolution to preserve the mural until 2022 to the people of Burlington Was the Boston Tea Party an act of vandalism or an act of resistance The real crime committed around the mural was the despicable vote by Dean roof Paul Mason Shannon you mr. Right Hartnett and no Dell We tried to work within the system To Let me just say we tried to work within the system But these eight council members voted to impose white supremacy on Burlington through legislation Like Charlottesville racists did with their violent attacks We call on people to come out on Thursday to support mr. Eric mayor and Margot Higgins we want bands to Engage in fundraising and Finally, we're asking your time is up mr. Yeah, finally We're asking the people of Burlington to turn out next town hall your time is up mr. Petraka to vote out the eight Racists on council who have brought shame to our city your time is up mr. Petraka Kelly divine Thank You Welcome Thank you. I'm here to speak in favor of the vote tonight to Pass along to the ballot the asset tax I have letters to share with counselors from some of our larger businesses in the community that mainly Participate in brewing wonderful beer as well as manufacturing and this tax in particular discourages those kinds of Activities in the city because the tax is the more heavily than other types of activities that some of our businesses engage in It'll be an important one for helping Ensure in the future that both our small businesses and we have a letter from simple roots brewing as well as larger ones like Burton are able to continue to Thrive and grow in Burlington because of the tax in particular is a disincentive for Capital investment and more equipment that you need for manufacturing and if any folks have Gone down to the facility in Burton seeing some of the R&D down there It's actually pretty amazing that we can claim that that type of work Happens in Burlington, and I think it would be really important for the city that it continue so thanks again to everyone on the council who did work on this for those who have supported it and I Asked for support to move this one step forward again tonight. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Vine for those respectful comments Julie Maluba may not be pronouncing that one right. Thank you and welcome My name is Julie Masuga, and I apologize that this doesn't have the Usual research behind it that most of my statements do but I'll take a crack at it. Anyway, I live in Ward 1 by the way So I was at the meeting for the DID a few weeks ago and what's in the memo provided on board docs I don't feel is really representative of what happened at that meeting The constituents concerns seemed more to me from everyone from Non-profits to residents to businesses Everyone at that meeting basically I'd say 90% of them didn't think the DID would do much more than privatize the city Which was a huge concern And along with that my concern is less about what it would do to the city but more who actually gets a say in the matter I read in the document that there would be no residents and it would be sort of a fee payers only Were the people who actually got a say in this and I feel like that's extremely exclusionary the building I work in right now is in the Sort of inclusion zone that this would be but it's got it houses three non-profits and a homeless shelter So the fact that they would potentially have to pay more and then go through some kind of appeal process to not pay that in that 5% increases worry some but beyond that Going back to the homeless that use that shelter I'm really concerned that they don't get a say in any of this and I'm concerned about the same things that were brought up earlier about Increased policing The peep this this downtown improvement district kind of seems like it's more for It's it's this obsession with growth this myth of growth and this idea of moving forward and the idea of moving forward And only going after-profit forgets everyone that you leave behind The increased policing is again a worry and the only thing that I really heard support for at that DID meeting was snow removal All right. Thank you very much Perry Freeman is up next to be followed by Jim Lockridge Good evening miss Freeman welcome Yeah, so I'm speaking tonight To say that I also don't support the expansion of the downtown improvement district There are I think a lot of reasons too. I want to focus on our sort of two of the main Goals that I see in a project like this which would be you know like beautification and also public safety and Regarding beautification, I think like with a with a development project like this I think a lot of people would speak to this but we do have to absolutely be concerned about gentrification and displacing people So that's just something I wanted to say quickly about that in terms of having a healthy development project for the city and then More so in terms of public safety This comes up a lot It came up with city hall park and it's coming up again with the church Street Marketplace and the framing around these conversations always concerns me a lot Mostly Yeah, so the the concern about that some people raised already about the ambassadors that this is you know private security firm This is increasing security and increasing policing To me, this is just you know a really a band-aid approach to addressing public safety issues. There are so many underlying issues and You know so addressing Public safety, I think really looks like investing in people whether it's you know their education or their healthcare or Their jobs and their working conditions Yeah, I just I really it really concerns me that this is a band-aid approach to public safety If we want, you know, we can instead expand the livable wage ordinance or we can Put pressure on you know, Montpelier or Washington to create a public health care system. That's comprehensive Otherwise, I really think that this just targets the most vulnerable populations in our city And that's yeah, that's not a good way forward and in my opinion So yeah, I I just wanted to make those two comments and I do not support the expansion of the downtown improved district For those reasons and others. So thank you. Thank you miss Freeman Jim Lockridge What's up next? I am speaking to support the jing-hart knit revised resolution To say that it it's spirit lifting to see the city council and CEDA Working together thinking about working solidly together with the NPA's going forward to discover needs and bring resources to them I'm grateful for that my perspective of good leadership is It results in inclusion and empowerment and a sense of everybody in the community feeling ownership and pride in the results and This sets us on a path for that I think and so I'm grateful and that's what I came to say. Thank you Thank You, mr. Lockridge Hans van Wees is Up next to be followed by Sarah Biel Good evening and welcome New mayor city councils My name is Hans van Wees. I'm a resident in Burlington and Tonight I just want to briefly touch on An issue that is of great concern to me and that's the lack of investment in economic development I'm concerned that there are the focus tends to be on increasing tax rates rather than tax base a city like Burlington is is you know not growing at a pace that we see around us and And one of the latest proposals that will be coming for you and that I will come to a future meeting for is that to double the local occupancy tax Which I in my opinion is is completely wrong direction to go Specifically Burlington already has a 2% local option tax that Translates in about a million dollars a year Into into the city and it goes to the general fund none of that goes back to economic development To double that would put us at a significant competitive disadvantage Compared to other destinations like Portland, Maine, Portland, New Hampshire So as that issue comes towards you, I will come back to discuss that I in general, I think we need to think about as a city about As we think in terms of economic development I know we want to preserve Buildings and expand parks and bikeways and so on But we also have a need to attract more people to the city and businesses to the city We have an office vacancy rate of 17 percent We have a hole in the ground between Cherry Street and Bank Street that at the moment does not seem to be moving forward That's me is a great concern. Thank you for listening. Thank you very much. Sarah Biel is up next To be followed by Chuck Deloria Good evening miss Biel welcome My name is Sarah and I am the co-owner of a store on one of the side streets That would be represented in the BID you pull the microphone and a little closer. Thank you. Thank you Yeah, and I'm speaking on behalf of the Expansion of the bid and I also a sitting member sitting member of the Church Street Commission and an active member of the Burlington Business Association So the small businesses of the downtown are struggling thanks to a number of issues namely a little company called Amazon and We're asking you to tax us more The BID already exists and we're simply asking you for more control over how that money is used for through co-marketing efforts such as the map that I Produced for the College Street the 20 or so businesses that are on that map are all paying into that amount of money and The money that they paid to be on that map is actually less than the taxes that would be increasing on their amounts so The interest in being a part of things like that is there and people are hungry for it additional ways that I feel that the BID could Be better Being utilized to our community would be fixing sidewalks removing graffiti, which is a big thing And further investing in the Howard Center Street outright outreach team Our city is in need of a little bit of a polish and if we don't make the right moves now We it might be too late for our downtown Thank you very much miss Beal Chuck DeLauré To be followed by our final speaker speaker tonight Emily Wattoms. Good evening. Mr. DeLauré welcome evening I'm Chuck DeLauré and I'm one of the owners and developers of the Burlington Harbor Marina Which is under construction on the waterfront and I see on your agenda tonight is a is a Plan another plan to look at a potential use for the Moran plant And I just wanted asked that the city council in the city in particular We're very supportive of seeing something happen to that building And I know there have been a lot of proposals that have come forward previously that we're not economically viable But one of the concerns that we will have with that is that there's adequate parking down there anytime There's an event and I know the community sailing center has had a few events where parking has become very problematic And I think we are very pleased with the arrangement that we have with the city and working with the city We negotiated over a fairly long period of time a parking agreement with the city for the marina And that gave us an opportunity to do traffic studies and really look at the parking situation So my point is I would like to have you any consideration of Redeveloping the Moran it really needs to look at Parking and the events and what the specific use is going to be for that facility and how parking will be Accommodated and maybe even expanded because I think any use of that facility is going to require an expansion of the parking Thank you very much. Mr. Deloria Emily Wattams up next and now the final speaker is William LeFord Don't know that one. Good evening. Welcome. Thank you, mr. Chairman My name is Emily Wattams I am a lifelong resident of Burlington so far at least and I am on the board of the preservation trust of Vermont and I'm here to speak about the Moran plant as well And you're going to be hearing a presentation from Neil Lunderville and the CETO office shortly about a scaled-down version of the rehab in Moran and although the preservation trust of Vermont was Fully supportive of a full rehab of the Moran what you're going to be hearing tonight is more of a functional Ruin of the Moran and I just wanted to say that the preservation trust is Supportive of this idea, although it's got a long way to go. It's only conceptual at this point It's got to go through you and all the various regulatory hurdles But in general the concept we are supportive of because we would like to keep this Remaining vestige of Burlington's industrial waterfront on the waterfront. Thank you Thank you very much the final speaker William led 40 Okay We do need to have you speak into the microphone because channel 17 and their viewers and the audience here will not be able to hear you I Came with a friend of mine and it's first time I've been in front of you I'm a 24 year programmer, but I'm challenged which you just saw and The reason I wanted to come up and speak is I've been around the world. I've been everywhere. I've lived about 10 years overseas But is there any way that the council Can have people that people who are challenged and not gazelles can stop and crosswalks to where we can get across the crosswalks and not Try to spin another 13 seconds to get across because we don't move that fast All right. That's the only thing that I was is there anything that you guys can do In the sense of that when I'm trying to get across I can't go as quickly as some people Okay, and then people want to come across and they ignore the crosswalks and you're kind of like taking your life in your own hands Okay, I can't go up against the 2,000 ton Or I can't do it. All right, so I took the opportunity tonight to see if police or if there's some kind of Broadcast or something of take consideration of people who are trying to get across crosswalks. That's it Thank you very much. This is not a time where we get to go back and forth But we will pass your concern on to the DPW Department of Public Works Commission. We'll make sure that they hear that And to and to up to enter the two committee which is here and hearing your concern. Okay. Thank you very much Have a good evening and with that that closes out tonight's public forum So we will Close the public forum and move on to item number four, which is the consent agenda Councillor Nodell for a motion president right I move that we adopt the consent agenda as amended and take the actions as indicated Councilor Nodell has moved councillor busher has seconded Move to adopt the consent agenda take the actions indicated any discussion hearing none all those in favor, please say aye any opposed That passes unanimously and we have our consent agenda passed as well Now we'll move on to the deliberative agenda item number five and five point oh one is What was just mentioned a presentation by director of CEDO Neil Lunderville on the Moran plant and Let me just open this up welcome. Thanks for being here We look forward to hearing about this and just open this up by saying that Everyone should keep in mind as a person mentioned earlier that this is a concept to start out with Every single detail and an answer may not be able to be provided on everything tonight, but that's not what we're certainly counselors can ask whatever questions they have but The expectation is that this will be sent. We hope if there's support for that to the PAC committee where it will need further review and work and And a lot of other a lot of other review before you know comes back to us So with that I'll turn it over to director Lunderville and the team and it would and if each we can all identify Everybody that's up here with you Let's turn it over to the mayor to take us off. Thank you president right I will turn over the team momentarily, but I did just want to say a few remarks to kick this off The administration is is excited to before the be before the council to talk about a possible concept for us to consider Just to kind of frame and remind us where we where we are in our long running efforts to Convert the formal former coal power plant Moran plant down on the waterfront into something that is supportive of and Consistent with the modern waterfront that has been evolving for many years now We we have been doing this effort as a community since the 19 1980s and some of some of that history will be in the presentation we reached in the in the spring of 2014 we went to the voters with a plan to Find one way or another to find resolution of this long-standing discussion And it was clear in that resolution and that ballot initiative that went to the voters that we would make one a Final attempt at a full adaptive reuse of the of the project And we were clear that if we were not successful at this that we would find other some other way to stabilize the site and Resolve this long-standing and increasing issue of what to do with the Moran building We reached reluctantly in August of 2017 the conclusion that the plan that we had put three and a half years into pursuing Did not have a high likelihood of succeeding and we also in August shared with the public The results of a study that also leads us tonight, which found that the demolition of the site would be Demolition of the full building would be a very expensive proposition with estimates ranging from approximately three million to over ten million Depending on the type of demolition that would be sought So what we committed to there was to explore then was to explore whether there is some other option something that Would since both of those options since since we had committed to We did not see it being viable to go once again and seek a full adaptive reuse of the building Something that had been tried for the better part of 30 years and we committed not doing it to do that again since we And since this demolition option was extraordinarily expensive We have exploring whether there's something else that be could be considered together this administration this council to Secure the resolution that has been promised and I'm excited that we are Bringing to you tonight a possibility there Something that we could consider that does I think represent a third way forward. It is a new option that Stabilizes the site and really turns what is today. I think widely perceived as an eyesore Into an iconic landmark on the Burlington waterfront the proposal would Continue the trend in recent years of activating the northern waterfront and would represent a substantial step towards even greater activation and third this proposal creates literally a framework for Further expansions in the future if our successors find additional uses and new resources to Bring to this effort. It is valuable in and of itself And it represents a great improvement over what we have today and gives us this framework for For further improvement in the years ahead if the community decides to go in that direction. So that's That's the big picture of what we hope this accomplishes to fill in some of the details I handed over to our interim CETO director Neil Lunderville who has been handling so many things in this interim assignment This has been one of the big ones and thank you Neil for your leadership bringing this proposal for tonight Thank You mr. Mayor and thank you to the council for allowing us to present tonight. I'm joined by a great team up here We'll let me introduce them all and then we'll talk more about them as we go We have Jesse Beck who is architect the principal Freeman French Freeman Air morrow who is the waterfront superintendent and harbour master. I got it right For the Burlington Park tracks the waterfront department and our friend Eric Crockenberg who has spent much time with Moran plant over the years and Tonight we're gonna we're gonna talk about What the future could be for the Moran facility? Advance the so we're gonna do a quick history. We'll talk about the what the options are talk about our concept I'll turn it to Jesse and Aaron To to walk through those concepts and then we'll talk about The next steps and why this is we think this is a viable option versus full demolition Really important that we are only offering an update tonight. We want some feedback We're not asking for any decision tonight We we really want feedback from you the council and the community and that will help us refine this idea Ultimately to allow us to move forward So only dive into just a quick history of this building As a as a energy nerd It's it's quite interesting. The building was built in the early 50s. It came online in 1954 as a coal fired power plant converted to wood chips in 1977 ultimately decommissioned in 1986 as operations shifted to the then online McNeill facility and Basically since 1986 the city has been looking for full adaptive reuses of the facility I want to pause here and mention because I think it's important This was designed and operated as a coal plant. It's it's electric plant It was a it's sort of a big dirty electric plant that ultimately the workers there kept it very clean But it was not designed to to be a congregating space for anything other than electrons And I want to also pause and mention that it it plays a really important role in the history of Burlington's trans energy transformation here We have in 60 years time a coal fired power plant on the beautiful waterfront of Lake Champlain in 1954 Fast forward to 2014 when Burlington becomes the first city in the United States to source a hundred percent of our energy From a renewable sources That's a pretty remarkable story Moran played a huge part in that it when it converted to wood chips in 1977 it really ushered in the era of us both producing our own renewable electricity a Part of that year that's been carried forward with with McNeill over the years, but since it's been decommissioned. It's continued to deteriorate because it's really not been in use so Next slide since we we've been So we have seen over the years so many Wonderful proposals for the Moran plant truly wonderful Well, we have to recognize that one of the challenges is that it is a old electric plant It is a challenging building it remains a challenging building to repurpose for uses other than Electric generation But that said as the mayor mentioned since 2017 the city has been seeking Final resolution for Moran's future that's something the Burlingtonians want to see We know that full full demolition remains an option But but to talk about that that will leave either a concrete slab or an open field with limited to know Development potential for the future and so we've sought to find an alternative So some of the facts we have When we're looking at this alternative we've we looked at five point four million dollars that is What is in the voter a fund the voter approved tiff funds from the March? 2014 vote it's important that's been pointed out by by the council that these tiff funds need to be bonded for By the end of 2019 basically by this time next year or we will lose the authorization for those funds But five point four million has been the budget that we've been working through this concept on So just a quick review of what demolition looks like in March 2017 a report was issued that laid out four scenarios Ranging from demolition at grade to full demolition including excavation Those price tags were wide and varied ranging from three point nine million to Almost eleven million dollars really depending upon the depth of the excavation required for that demolition We updated those because we wanted to see what those numbers would be in 2019 terms We found that scenario one which is Devolution to grade leaving basically a concrete slab would be between four point three and five point eight million Scenario two which would go down a little deeper and presumably leave some kind of a field Would would the cost would range between four point six and six point two million dollars That report is detailed. It is online and we'll be happy to afford a link to any counselors interested in that is on the CETA website I really lays out those four scenarios quite well So that's our our full demolition option So we've been pursuing at the mayor's direction and alternative that meets Some criteria that that are quite a bit more than full demolition Importantly we want an alternative that delivers us more value than full demolition at the funds that we have available an Alternative that integrates very well with all the surrounding amenities We have the bike path in the skate park and the sailing center and the new marina and then of course the new city park adjacent to the fishing pier We wanted something that enhances public access to the waterfront Something that activates the space for community gatherings and for events that are both small and medium-sized And importantly as I mentioned honors the historic importance of Moran and the architectural character of that really unique building This alternative concept is moving away from a more expansive full adaptive reuse to something that is more concentrated something that is Really focused on the criteria. I mentioned above as we looked at this We think the way to deliver it is ultimately a city led project With the completed facility managed by the waterfront division of Burlington parks wrecks and waterfront and Aaron will talk to that more as we get a little deeper into this So before we get deeper into this I do want to pause and tell you a little story about how we got here tonight I think it's important to set the stage for what you'll see So after CEDO started its work earlier this year on this alternative We discovered that a similar effort was underway Was underway led by Eric Crockenberg and a team of volunteers We realized that our efforts had a lot in common our values and design aesthetics were closely aligned and The work on our concepts were was generally complementary So we decided that rather than jousting with competing approaches We decided to share inspiration ideas and talent to arrive tonight at a single concept That's the concept we present tonight We've dubbed it frame a fearless relook at Moran electric Or you could say it's a Frank relook at Moran electric either or It is a frame and we'll talk about that frame concept I want to pause though and thank folks who have worked on this both in this iteration But over the long arc of this project. This has been many many years There have been many efforts both by the city and by volunteers I certainly want to pause and thank the tremendous staff at CEDO both past and present certainly want to call out a special thanks to our to our dear colleague and Stalwork Kirsten Miriman Shapiro who's done amazing work to really advance this through many many years Agreed worthy of that We've been aided greatly in this effort by our city colleagues, especially in Murrow And and the parks recs and waterfront staff Freeman French Freeman Jesse Beck who's here with me Alex Halpern have done great work and brought great creativity to this design while working within type budgets Plus DW construction engineering ventures have helped in estimating and structural a structural look I want to give a special thanks to Eric who has led his team of volunteers for their own really creative Really amazing creative process, but he didn't do it alone. He brought Lincoln Brown illustration You'll see Lincoln Brown has a gift for illustration of renderings of of ideas And the good folks at PC construction in particular Zach Campbell who's here tonight I'm in many others Including many we consulted along the way with this who've worked on Moran Through through the many decades David G. White Charlie Tipper Tad Cook Paul Brun and we Wadams who was so gracious to speak here tonight Alan Newman and our our partners at state and federal level There certainly had been many efforts and we hope that we have brought the ideas and concepts into this one frame concept tonight Final note before I get into it The presentation you will see tonight are renderings of this friend concept. They're representative of The the concept you may see slight variations from slide to slide That's part of the conceptual nature of this and the collaborative approach that we've taken between the city team and Eric's team Ultimately these designs will be continued will continue to be refined based on your feedback and the final design Budgeting and permitting process will want you to focus on tonight is the concept overall and that's what I'll get into now so Here it is the frame concept The frame concept is a partial demolition to create a community icon we're really peeling back the brick on at least three sides to Show this structural steel armature the superstructure of this building that holds it up We do this while retaining Moran's distinctive tiered shape This concept we have one main floor. It is slab on grade meaning that it is on grade and fully accessible to all the surrounding grounds the basement level will be completely filled in and the other levels for the initial phase completely deconstructed This is a covered space in our concept. We'll show some of these with roofs It may not be a roof in the end. It may be a canvas or high tensile fabric structure to keep off the rain and provide sunshade and protection from from falling ice, but that's part of the concept We see this as a flexible venue for between two thousand and 1800 I'm sorry 200 and 1800 people Importantly in this design. You'll see strong connections between the bike path And the facility as well as all of the integrated and surrounding parks This is a site in the frame concept that is event ready Is gender-neutral restrooms power connections for events and water at the site? It incorporates art and lighting and I think importantly Brings back and keeps the city of Burlington lettering on the south elevation I think that's something that we've heard from a lot of Burlingtonians really want Importantly in looking at this the frame concept Eliminates two significant cost drivers of all previous plans One is that that because this building was never designed to house people or a large number of people It was designed to be a power plant Earlier designs needed to reinforce the brick that surrounded the superstructure Because we're peeling away most of the brick. We don't have to do that Reinforcement for seismic control Secondly is we've eliminated obviously eliminated the need for winterization. This is a seasonal facility It's going to be used in the winter. Although you will see Slides for future use where we could do an ice skating rink in the winter Etc, but the winterization which was which was hard to do for a place that was generating so much heat when it was an electric plant Has been eliminated in this The benefits of this proposal are manyfold number one it activates an abandoned site It improves public access right away by creating this seasonal boardwalk Integrating closely with the surrounding parks It also incorporates a lot of the core elements of other popular proposals It becomes this amazing really majestic public gathering place on our waterfront. It becomes a must-visit site for out-of-towners It obviously creative reuses this industrial site While keeping the characters of a important historic building as the mayor said the frame concept Stabilizes this site and creates a platform for future uses in the future concept sides You will see things like elevated viewing decks a winter ice rink a More permanent summer stage and maybe even in the future really large children's playgrounds to be a complement to the skate park that we have there now and I think importantly the frame concept Can be completed with the available TIF funds within the statutory timeframe that we're working with Delivering significantly greater value than full demolition at roughly the same cost So with that I will turn it over to Jesse and Aaron to walk through the concept in more detail So we're gonna turn Neil into an architect after this is all over So he's done a great job to wrap up everything that we're going to be walking you through some of the images some of the architecture and some of the programming with Aaron and I so a Lot has happened over the years around This facility and this map really illustrates some of the key components that have fallen into place So we think of this Every arch has a keystone to hold it all together and we feel that this facility in this iteration Is that keystone everything can function around and use as a supportive asset a little closer look at the boundaries of the of the facility the building and some of the key elements so Building mass is this outline here. So we're looking at a certain footprint To activate the site and possible extensions out into the events lawn And then the main thing is to activate the east west delay to lead people down into the new park Absolutely, that's what is really exciting about this site is It builds on our current momentum of driving connections So driving connections from our downtown corridors to the lake the lake edge and the lake front place I'm clearly very passionate about getting people down there and activating that site now And that's what this can really speak to it's bringing people down We can have passive use we could have programmatic use down here, but it gets people through these corridors and utilizing that new city park that we're gonna have and Complementing the amenities that we have already put in place like our skate park and a couple elements Access for also bathrooms in the early phase of activation Vendor huts that can be seasonal Support ice skating fat tire bike down in the snow cross-country skiing We really want to activate this in the winter Winner is a really important part of the season on the waterfront that we want to bring more people to And speaking of connections currently we have you know, Burlington high school Cross-country team utilizing North Beach and going down to the bike path. This is a Logical expansion of that bringing people not just east and west but also north south slide please The frame concept. So this is exposing removing all of the brick Exposing the frame. We have structural engineers that have looked at this who we need moment connections to stiffen that frame So this is all doable within the five point four million dollars that we're speaking of a view from the skate park Another view of the frame restoring the the great lettering on the on the building Looking at the shape of how the shape is really important to us and how it steps And we'll show you some of those roof shapes Activating this is extremely important to activate and bring people down to that new park Enhancing the bicycle path And really providing an open-air pavilion if you want to describe it that way Yeah, it addresses some of the current deficiencies that we have at the north end of our park We all know we need restrooms. We have a gorgeous skate park well used in that area and you know placing gender-neutral restrooms here would go a long distance and Having a welcoming Burlington in this area Next slide Closer in view of really activating that east-west walkway Possibly providing canopies and sun shading Next slide We feel that brick is a really important part of the history of this building. So we are proposing saving the east wall Which keeping the remaining brick and then reinforcing the brick from from behind Creating sort of that gateway Having an element of surprise. So as you approach this this wall Which really shows and Shows the stepping of the building is providing you an entranceway a formal portal to the waterfront This just brings up immense possibilities of what we can do programmatically For the site both in these covered structures and on the exterior of this area This can serve as both a backdrop and a functioning space for community gatherings Small to medium-sized events and community celebrations So the the volume of the building is is not apparent from the outside and so what we're Proposing is to open this up Possibly bring back some of the roof structures to help stabilize the steel provide sun shading snow ice wintertime and Really celebrate the the big mass that this building presents so that there are activities Before we go on to the future concepts long to note that we With the city's work and with Eric's team's work. We had both We had DW and PC construction Do estimates of this frame concept ranging between five point two and five point five million dollars? We think this is really strong due diligence that gives us confidence to move forward If the the council Thinks that that's that would be the right approach We have confidence that we could bring this concept in with variations of what you saw ultimately But bring this concept in for the for the budget that we have It's important to note that any future phases, which are the next set of slides. You'll see We would need to find additional money to do this So I want to be clear what we just showed you was what we could do for what we think we could do for the budget That we have and any of the future slides You'll see now would require additional money beyond what is then approved by the voters So we've had a little bit of fun with us if you can imagine all the things that we could do with this building So one additive element we've approached this sort of as a menu of opportunities both to stabilize activate and these future opportunities So one way is to extend the footprint of the building through a Tensile roof type structure that would provide a small events shelter Other event shading and expand and orient it towards the events along which can hold about 1,800 people this is a view from the southwest of how we would activate the waterfront Restore the two bridges that that bring people across the waterfront Papers bike racks tables and chairs vendors vendor opportunities so people could come in and provide food Inside the the confines of the footprint display art Have exhibits inside and then start to look at the different roof levels there. There's about three primary roof levels that could be Stairs elevator added so that people have access to these various levels of the building you know what's really neat is The possibilities of not only phase one but also future possibilities of how we can activate our waterfront in the winter It's always been a challenge and it's something that you know I love to set our minds out on of what can we do to activate the space 365 days of the year future possibilities What my dreams of course would be a nice drink But you know making these connections what we can do now of Warming huts to having cross-country ski teams come down to a possible covered space Overhead to have some future skating, which we really need down there So again a wonderful night shot of how we can bring people down to the waterfront both inside the building outside of the building And have some fun with with ice skating ice skating tracks free skating In Buffalo, they actually have their their hockey team practice and have a little open session We talked about roof roof shapes roof scapes. This is a view of the middle roof It's got amazing views we can activate it with hardscape We're having some fun with artwork artwork integration the hoppers the old coal hoppers, which there are three would be Deconstructed and in its place we can have a lot of fun with colorful screening lighting fabrics and sort of celebrate the shapes and You know relive some of that history Within the building the top deck is just amazing Anybody's made the climb up the the stairs and taking a look at the views there. They're second to none So this is a great view of the panorama So that will turn over there one more one more. Okay? So again the the top observation deck. Thank you guys So first I want to clarify one thing before I speak and that is that I'm here is air Crockenberg as a Excited passionate citizen, but not here as an endorsement of the new Moran team Although I will say that there is genuine enthusiasm for exploring this direction from from all of the founders of that organization pending the next step So I'm gonna start with You know all projects I think boil down to four essential things Which are why who how and what and starting with why and who? I think it's closure and generosity So for me personally, I've spent the last four or five years depending on when you start the clock really my entire formative professional career Dedicated to this building and the belief that it could be a transformative cultural community landmark That is a I love for this place and the desire to create a lasting legacy And that's really the reason that every single one of us are up here And I think it's the real beauty of this new plan while it's not what I Had initially imagined for the building. I do think it's a elegant impactful compromise and For the last really four or five months I've helped lead that both independently and then joining forces with Neil and the team here and I'm excited about The base scenario and the opportunities that that presents And that really goes into who and that's that this is a real co-lessons of Decades, you know 30 years of experience about people who share that exact belief that the legacy in the place that we live and love And years and years of deep experience from multiple different angles and hundreds and thousands of people and their community input and A place of pragmatism that this is something that could happen now so that leads into how and This is really all about a limiting variables While not sacrificing community value, you know what we're trying to do here and The plan that I am most excited about is this base scenario because I see it as something that Creates the path of least resistance. It's a low upfront investment. It's low ongoing management. It's Accomplishable within the timeline and the funds that are currently available and within the operational managerial capacities of parks so this is Pragmatism at its most beautiful manifestation And that's leads into what you know, I see this It's kind of this 21st century adaptive reuse Pinnacle in a lot of ways that it it's simple. It's sculptural. It's transformative. It's Immediately achievable in its most simplified base form without even needing additional phases and by creating that base, it's a framework for future possibility right that with Further community input with further identified resources that this could continue to evolve or not it doesn't have to And they're beautiful examples of similar projects all over the world Which I've pulled up a few So this is the MFO park in Switzerland. It's a former industrial site. I believe it was an engineering factory In which they stripped away the shell and created this unbelievable cultural anchor that's that's garnered international attention and recognition Next slide Parked a leville in Paris. This was a former slaughterhouse facility That's become one of the most famous parks in the world inspired the High Line And one of the big things they did were built these beautiful sculptural forms these you know Exposing the superstructure as a as a piece of art but also a place to hold events and celebrate next slide Thompson's point man This is a simpler, but this is a warehouse and former marine site that in recent history has been reinvented to have very simple Infrastructure but created summer and winter activation through relatively low upfront investment and then the last side so it's grandiose sure Absolutely grandiose, but I think you look at something like the Eiffel Tower, right? That's a historic relic that at one time many Parisians Disliked the building was almost taken down And now has become the most iconic Representation of certainly Paris but also what Paris stands for right the city of lights and so that's What excites me about this plan again, that it's a elegant impactful iconic compromise That could create a landmark that I think is truly unique fit, thank you Eric Jesse and Aaron for a great explanation of all these pieces and how they all fit together in the end We this is a concept. We do need your feedback We believe that this delivers greater community value than full demolition this partial demolition to reveal this community icon It's sort of the sculpture sculptor with a block of marble That we need to pair back in order to really find the beauty in there that will allow us to to capture that For our community we can do it within the funding that we have it creates functional Accessible space right away as a community gathering point it integrates so perfectly as that Keystone or that gem in a crown of Of so many great properties on the waterfront and then of course it provides the flexibility for future uses So if the council is interested in this approach We we are able to return and do some more work on it return in early 2019 provide a work plan and a proposal that will allow us to meet the December 31st 2019 deadline So with that I want to thank you for the time Thank you Neil. Mr. Mayor. Did you want to say a word before I turn over to the full council? Just a just a couple present right. I just wanted to thank all four members of the team for the enthusiasm In each of their areas and energy that they brought to this I think it would not have been possible to kind of bring something a new option back for consideration if we didn't have Great partnership with our design partners with from French Freeman and Jesse real interest within the parks department for adding this to the waterfront offerings that we have and to Eric Thank you for the artistry and the inspiration that you've shared at the end and sticking with this despite the adversity we've gone through together Lean up tonight. We're excited that you're here at the table and and we're still trying to crack this nut together. So thank you Thank you, mr. Mayor, and I will turn it over to the full council. I have counselors in the queue already I'm just gonna make a brief comment to start out just saying that I would have started this out saying that when the When the last development proposal just wasn't able to work out that I would I would have thought From for me that it would have been time to move forward with demolition I'm surprised that I find myself with this proposal thinking that there is another way And I think there's questions that remain to be answered But what I asked myself to start with is it we have to spend millions to demolish it Are we better off with a field and nothing there? Or are we better off spending that type of money and having that structure there? There are still questions to read, you know as they say the devils and the details But I think it is a interesting and unique proposal to start out with that has me still thinking about Supporting this rather than just going for demolition with that I'll turn it over to the council and councillor Shannon to be followed by Councillor Tracy busher and jang councillor Shannon President right your your comments warm my heart To hear that I have not been a fan of demolition I Appreciate your out-of-the-box thinking on this it's come as kind of a surprise to me and It's it's a very new concept to me So it usually takes me a little time to warm up to things. I'll warn you but your presentation tonight is Really helping me to get there Seeing just the frame of the structure initially is Is a little shocking and I don't really understand the the Illustrations show a real range from really just the bear the bear frame to Some of the things you can do with the bear frame and I wanted to Could could you? respond to For the four point four million dollars that we can't afford How much of the things that we're seeing can we get and how much are things that are? possibilities for down the road and also my other question is about the brick Some of the illustrations have no brick at all. I Think the main concept because you've given us a large picture here has the east facade of brick And you said something about seismic Needs for seismic controls or something which hadn't occurred to me before and I could see some big advantages in keeping more brick on the building and won't go into the debate about where but but I think that It would be nice if this structure could provide a A Port in a storm so to speak you know when you're down on the waterfront and a storm storm comes up suddenly And you need a safe haven down on the waterfront My understanding is there's not quite enough of this building to really provide that protection, but but could it be that? So let me take a couple of those points. Thank you counselor for the question and With the What we wanted to show tonight was a range of options inside of What we think we can afford for five point four million dollars based on the estimates that we receive from DeW and PC construction So some of these have you're at your right and pointing out some have more brick and some have less brick I think it's part of this that Ultimately that brick is somewhat ornamental in this case It's not providing the structure that To keep the building up it does stabilize it to some degree If we were to add it, but it's a choice of how we want to provide that ornamentation There there may be a full wall There may be parts of a full wall and there may be something a little different ultimately the final design process Followed by the permitting will help us determine exactly what is is in that bucket But we thought it is important to show a few of those variations for what we think we could afford Inside the the five point four million dollars the brick itself as Contemplated in these drawings would not be preserved in place It would be because of the way that the building is built It really needs to be taken off and then rebuilt back onto the building Which would allow us to integrate it directly onto the steel superstructure and Provide for the seismic control that we would need so that it would one of the challenges of the of All earlier plans was keeping that brick in place without taking it all back It's difficult because then you need to shore up the existing brick which has seen the some wears over time That becomes a lot more trickier and ultimately a lot more costly But the brick that you've seen in these would be taken down and then rebuilt to be integrated directly on the structure but we did want to offer a few of those variations to to gauge folks interest and and Ultimately, what would we think would be an interesting design? I think both are pretty interesting designs and and I'd love to hear feedback on where the council feels one or the other would be preferable So if I can just reiterate my understanding is that any brick on the structure is adding cost to the structure because it's basically it's new brick and and The everything that we see is within the budget. It's not different phases of the project It's just different visions of what it should be. That's right and different, you know, they're there Different varieties of the same apple You know, they're all but all the that base concept is just that's one apple and the ones a granny You know, what one's the grand Smith ones Mac? They're gonna be maybe a little different, but Yeah Because we all have similar concerns as well as seeing a stark steel frame And that's it. So our base case actually brings you elements to soften that to try to Enhance the steel frame as an armature to plug and play into With elements like brick and as much brick as we can afford is how much brick we would like to see on the building To extend to show that shape the stepping of the building is extremely important other elements like Roof for shelter and shade we want to get as many roofs in the place for shelter and shade for that big open space inside That is in a part of the five point four, but not with people walking on Be a roof not a pedestrian walkway because that does add a lot more money to the project stairs Papers railings all that adds up to be a lot of money. So that is in the future The base case also adds artwork, you know And that's yet to be determined, but we are preserving a Certain amount of money in that five point four to add artwork to help again soften the steel frame add interest add color We do have quite a bit of money going into just stabilizing getting up to grade Like I said, it's a moment frame. It has to be solidified with some steel plates And so there's there's a bit of structural work that needs to happen to make this occur So all those details need further study Thank you Thank You councillor Shannon. I have about half the council now in the queue. So I'll just remind councillors and this is good It's a it's a big topic just remind councillors. We had a discussion about this So I'm gonna ask every councillor to monitor themselves Councillor Tracy is up next and then councillor busher Jang roof Mason fine. Thank you and thank you for bringing this concept I certainly as someone who is not at all excited about the prospect of demolition I'm very excited to see that there's a still another path. However, one of the things that Sort of has come up for me continually is that when we brought this to the voters several years ago It was presented as an either or either we do this specific project on the waterfront that emerged from the PAP process Which was the lengthy public engagement process or we do demolition and this seems to be sort of splitting the difference So I guess how do you see this as being consistent with the public vote where I feel like we were they were presented with either or The one thing that I think a lot of folks wanted which was the specific project that The team the new Moran team put forward Didn't is not going to happen. So I think a lot of people were expecting a full-scale demolition So how do you square that because it doesn't seem like there's necessarily going to be time to get this on the ballot for March If we need to incur the debt by the 31st of 2019, we wouldn't get it on the 2020 ballot. So how do you? reconcile this either or vote with the fact that this probably won't go on a ballot or wouldn't be able to go on a ballot in the In the near term and what steps do you plan to take to make sure you get more public consent around this? So thank you for the question and if you could advance to two slot could you advance two slides? I did expect this question to come up because it's a great question and we we have consulted with City Attorney's office and we did put the the language up here And it says if the city council determines numerand the proposed numerand prosel cannot Excuse me reasonably accomplished the council shall be authorized to utilize tax increment funds from the waterfront tiff district For the payment of indebtedness direct or indirect cost of the demolition Of the demolition of the Moran building and state site stabilization with the public trust doctrine This the the frame concept as we laid out tonight Certainly is a demolition a partial demolition of the facility and provides site stabilization As we believe as contemplated by this ballot initiative it does Provide I think it has the additional benefit of providing community value That is far greater than the full than full demolition But we we believe that we have that this language provides authorization That would allow us to proceed Without another vote now certainly that's something that council can discuss we're happy to discuss with you But that is our interpretation coming into tonight. Thank you very much for that piece of it I appreciate the anticipation in terms of the The consent piece though. So how are you planning on given that you're not thinking of bringing this to the public? How are you thinking of making sure that? Checking back in with folks to make sure that this in fact is the direction they want to go. Yeah, that Thank you. We we certainly want feedback tonight's the first step in in doing that There may be continue. There may be more council discussion here at the full council or in in committee where we can have a Discussion with the committees and or I guess I'd say and public feedback Certainly, we're gonna put a page up on our website. We haven't done that yet to solicit public feedback and Get folks while weighing in on this we are We are mindful of the time crunch that we're presented with with the need to bond for the money before the end of next year so we would need any efforts to be focused and And Focused if the council thinks that this general concept is something worthy of pursuing But it is important whatever we do to engage the public do that well To get buy-in so we can make to something the community really wants and values for generations to come Thank you very much. Thank you councillor Tracy councillor busher So I'm so excited. I can hardly contain myself. You know, I Just such a I I love the way you think out of the box all of you and so it's just been wonderful I know it's disappointing for some because it's not the vision that we initially thought for this building But I like you flashback 1985 and I was part of a little group in the city of Burlington That met and one of them was Michael Monty who was later the CEDO director That was part of that group Manny Leone who was I'm planning and we all got together because we had visions for the Moran plant then And we met diligently and we had some great ideas, but we didn't have any money And so there you go So that building has attracted a lot of different people with a lot of different ideas over the years and I'm sad to see that We never could really figure out how to fully utilize re-adapt its use But I think this is a wonderful proposal and so for me. So So I'm supportive. I like the idea councillor Shannon referenced some and when you began you said you're we're going to see Different visions because these are concepts I'm hoping that the brick portion will remain I I like that more than just these steel the naked steel structure, although I think that's interesting also I Like the covered areas also. I know Neil said something about they could be tarp They could be more substantial whatever, but I do like that protection aspect So for me, I'm thinking Yes, this could be open-air market It could be like movie night At the water family night at the waterfront, you know, go sail and then come in go use your marina come in and And come in and you know, oh, so I just think the possibilities are endless I see lettuce growing vertically Neil I was trying to sell them on another idea a while ago I see lots of things lots of potential. So I'm very supportive. I Totally respect what councillor Tracy said about The citizens of Burlington not feeling like we're we've betrayed them or going in a direction That's different than what authority they gave us and so I do respect that and I really feel we need to be very careful and Inclusive to make sure they understand That this is an option that none of us anticipated but one that I think holds potential for For our waterfront and our community, so I'm hoping that they'll be supportive during public forum There was a question regarding Whatever use you had on the marina individuals spoke about parking and I Don't know if there's anything Contemplated I mean, it's all accessed via bicycle or boat. I didn't hear anything about Vehicular access. Could you just speak to that? Just I can thank you councillor For your comments and your feedback and the question about parking We certainly the city over the last Many years has made efforts through the waterfront access north area to to grow out the number of parking spaces in that area and We hope to be able to use those spaces For this facility ultimately This is the kind of facility that will be permitted as something like a public park or a performance space that doesn't Require additional spaces. Certainly the budget doesn't contemplate additional spaces To be to be built in that area We ultimately want to work with all of the work through parks with Joining Properties to understand the parking needs Ultimately, I would I would hate for that to be a reason to do nothing here I think we can be creative and find ways to Utilize the value of the site with the frame concept In a way that that uses the the parking that's that's down there now Okay, thank you And then you spoke about potential next steps for the council which could be a work session Where all of you would be there at the work sessions. Is that true? It's the holiday season I Think there may be that we the the I'm not sure if it's a full work session or the Committee well, let's not let councillor busher jump ahead of us That's very very Koy of you councillor busher but councillor busher. I just want to make sure you are supportive. Thank you Thank You councillor busher Councillor Jang roof Mason pine Dean monitor yourselves So it will be very quick, but I think I want to start by saying you know Thank you to the mayor of Burlington for leading us this way I think it's incredible instead of just putting it down. I think great I'll look at you now differently because of this and for you guys I think you brought something, but you didn't touch on it very deeply about the connection piece If you think about it Eric was from the modern plant Inc But now still connected with you with a new plant and I see Tat Cook right there still here But about this building Definitely don't tell me about connection to the wider front to the bike path, but talk to me about connection to nature Connection to the earth you can see right here You see you connect it to the earth you look you see the sky you connected to the water you connected to the air the trees Think about it that way you connected to nature and Along those lines. I would really want to see even if that's possible These frames in metal to be frames in wood Something that's a natural That's not role. So this building would could be the first Green building in the city of Burlington owned by the city So we know the Davies Center is somewhat green But let's try to make sure this building had that connection to nature 100% Thank you for your work, and I am very supportive and connection new north and south and that's beautiful Thank you. Thank you counselor. Thank you counselor Jane counselor roof I'm gonna practice self-regulation and pass. Oh, I'm supportive, but I'm gonna pass. Thank you counselor roof counselor Mason Thank you president right My first question. Thank you for the presentation My first question sort of is to Neil and I'm not sure I need an answer tonight, but Look forward to sort of budgetary impact not just beyond the 5.4, but sort of ongoing maintenance expenses It's unclear to me at this point, you know How much vendor support or how much revenue we're envisioning? I'm just sort of interested in sort of making sure on a longer term basis It's not just the 5.4, but what impact are we looking for and what you know, who's gonna be paying for that? I Just say good quickly counselor. Thank you for that question We have discussed that internally one of the ideas behind having a simple concept is that there wouldn't be a lot of ongoing maintenance of the structure and we've talked about coding the steel in such a way that it will be That it won't need well. It would not need frequent recodings. It'd be decades Until you have to do something like that Otherwise the structure itself is pretty simple and doesn't require a lot of maintenance. There are ongoing operating cost Generally speaking if we are able to activate the site as an events facility or a gathering place We would hope that the revenue we'd raise through through that for Whether small concerts or or meetings or weddings would cover the cost of of parks We haven't gotten into that level of detail and that's something that we'll have to do in the next phase of this great I look forward to that. I guess the other piece that someone just asked me to ask Eric I know you're here and you made clear you're here in your individual capacity But I'm wondering, you know, is it envisioned in addition to public input, you know, will new moran Have an endorsement or what, you know, is it still exist? Are you envisioning going back to your board and the champions council? I just maybe if you could speak to what how you seem to think you'll be involved not only individually But whether new moran will be part of that Sure, you know, I think it ultimately comes down to You know we're at the due diligence stage, right? You know we're We have a very clear idea of the direction that we're moving but there's still a process of distillation to actually have a concrete proposal back to the the council and I think that can happen in a relatively quick timeline so the new moran's board Perspective is really that there's excitement about moving in this direction. There's more excitement about certain directions than others And we're reserving our right to endorse it as a board acknowledging that as a board we're also representing 60 plus champions and thousands of supporters over the years So there's there's excitement about this direction There's willingness to consider endorsement And we're really just wanting to get this to the next stage to say this is exactly what the plan is because We're very close to that I mean I have no doubt you will be involved in the next phase. So I guess if there is there are you know Directions you'd like to go certainly. I hope you share that you know rather than wait till the proposal proposal comes out And then just vote an up-down. So thank you. Thank you councillor Mason I'm going to councillor Pine. Just one second councillor city attorney Blackwood. Can I ask a question? In regards to process more councillors in the queue of three more at least But we don't have anything scheduled for a vote here But is it okay for us to actually have a vote to move this if we wanted to have a motion to move this Forward to a committee to the PAC committee for example. Is that okay despite not having anything on the agenda for that? Yes Your obligation is just to warn the item on the agenda and if you choose to take some action, okay, that's fine All right. Thank you councillor Pine Thank you This question may also be for the city attorney. It's In order for us to make a decision eventually on this topic would we Would we do we have authority from the voters to do anything like what we're talking about here? Do we need to go back? Yeah, I can have Richard Hessler talk to speak more for it But he's with what he's gone over with me He's looked thoroughly at the TIF issues and and feels that yes We have the authority from the voters through that ballot question that is up on the screen right now My other question maybe it's for another time, but I want to at least throw it out there I want to get too nerdy about the finances, but I just want to make sure that we have until 2019 to incur the debt Right, but I want to make sure that what the repayment period is How long can we stretch that repayment out over to make sure we have enough amortization to to make that affordable? Not you know just I want to make sure the numbers work in that in that way That's all I'm concerned about is I thought I heard something that when Beth Anderson presented our last Meeting about TIF ending in 2026. I didn't I didn't quite get the connection to this But I started to my red flag went up and I said well 2026 that's not of time to retire this debt So that was my only caution on that But I think we can figure that part out This is incredible, and I think it's incredibly exciting I remember what Sharon was talking about there was a Renaissance group in the 80s that was looking at taking this You were part of that Yes, Carol Stewart rest in peace was a leader one of the leaders of that effort for quite a while I think she Maybe her hair got grayer in that process. I think because it was really difficult, but There's a old saying in the preservation world about the embodied energy it takes to create a brick Believe it or not it's eight gallons of gasoline was required to make each one of those bricks and So while we could debate for a long time whether that real embodied energy is something it's sort of water under the bridge It's maybe you don't have to worry But it's real there was a lot of energy used to to create those bricks and to create get the raw material and all of that So I just want to say if we can save as many of those bricks as possible I think it's really a good sustainability practice to do that So building you know reusing as much building materials possible I think ought to be a goal and again, it's a showcase. It's an incredible showcase property Even though we probably will have very little electric load. I think it'd be really great to have solar on the property Good point. Yeah Thank You councillor pine councillor Dean and then Paul Thank You president, right, so I'll start with a note of professional jealousy It's not often that you're given an opportunity to that you know doesn't require that you you know have to make it come in Insulated well-served my mechanical system And still meet the budget so so this is fantastic So I have I think my remarks fall into two categories one is more on a line of Some additional questions I think that you can ask in the design process as you go forward Alex and Jesse And then some concerns about Which you know, this is a project we would put up in front of a group of students and ask them You know come up with some great ideas, and I think there's some great ideas here So first I would ask that you think about Simplifying and editing the frame I think what we've you've accepted essentially the frame as it is and it's kind of complicated And in a way that the idea is diluted by it being too complex So I think there may be a way to simplify it cut it back and save money all together So I think that could be an improvement I'd ask you also to think about looking at the example of the MFO Park in Switzerland where Landscape is integrated into the project I've seen projects that hang trees. I think you may have seen those in the journals as well I think that kind of I think aligned with Councillor Dang's idea of bringing nature into this project would would really reinforce it I think it'd make it more successful And finally in terms of thinking about what future phases might be you've incorporated all of your Movement systems through the building inside the frame How about if we went outside the frame and we could actually see how to move up from the outside And make a defined path to find these places within the frame. So those are three Design selection or suggestions that I hope you can explore and bring to us And then just as I would with architecture students if I would ask them these questions This seems like a fantastic place for graffiti artists. It's a huge destination for them as a place for they could You know come it's going to be a place that that's a target So my question is can we do we want them to be part of of this because they will be or do we want to find a way To provide security to keep them away So another real challenge I know the other thought is that in terms of security this also will be a place that people want to climb And we need to be able to make sure that you know we can protect people and protect the city And finally, well, maybe I won't put this one out there. Okay. I'll put this one out there Let's think about pigeons pigeons will love this So I'm sure you guys may have thought of that but and and if you can come back with some specific That's all I have to say I had lying tomorrow. Yeah, what about the pigeons? We have thought about the pigeons and it doesn't include Our budget includes money for Systems to keep them away and not doing what they do Thank you, councillor Dean councillor Paul And then I'm going to councillor Hartnett for a motion Thank you So I would also like to echo what others have said and thanking you for bringing this forward I'm sure that's been a lot of a lot of work has gone into this over a long period of time I also would just like to mention that it's I think particularly rewarding to see you Eric here I saw a tad saw Catherine Three of the four Who were the guiding force behind new Moran? I think it shows your love of the building your love of community and the fact that sometimes the Dream doesn't die. It just has to change a little bit the the two questions that I have are You know one of the one of the alluring things about new the new Moran project was that it was going to be truly a four-season destination and While I appreciate the a skating rink You know a skating rink that is on the waterfront on a lot of days in December January and February without any shelter is cold and People even when they go skating want someplace to go So the the question that I have is the first one is whether or not there is any Potential even with the lower the lowest level to do any kind of Shelter even if it isn't heated although obviously that would be a little more ideal and then the second question is you know You you gave us all these future phases. Well, you know, of course We're all sitting here looking at the future phases going wow that looks really cool The question is is there I know it's not in the amount of money that is available through the TIF fund But if there was another way to find that money do you have a Do you have a ballpark idea of the ideas that you showed us? Do you have an idea of what the cost would be for some of those so that at least it might potentially Give us the opportunity, you know, I realize we could add them later But if we could start with one or two I would just be interested to know I mean if we're talking a half a million dollars a million dollars or Three million dollars on which obviously gets beyond the realm of what we probably can do So those would be my questions and I don't know if you want to answer them now But I'm supportive of I'm supportive of moving forward, but if you have the answers, I'd be happy to hear them I just say thank you. Thank you counselor that the certainly we've Aaron has expressed the desire for some kind of covered Structure as well. It's it's not in the plans that you saw today And that would need to be if that was a priority that would need to be worked out through the first process We did get some cost estimates for what like what the other things would cost It was a process where we sort of went up to the the limit and then we stopped and everything Above that's an ad alternate. So we have some of those costs They do go up when you start to look at the elevations and the need to build the stairs and an elevator It does get very pricey very quick But we can provide more clarity on that in the future just so folks can understand not just what the food looks like But what it actually cost on the menu Thank you. Thank you counselor Paul. I'm gonna go to counselor heartening out I just one quick thing you don't even have to if I'm wrong about this You could just say you're wrong But if we demolish this if we just did a complete demolition We would never be able to achieve the height that we will be able to by keeping the building partially up. Is that correct? That's that's right. And yeah, okay. Thank you. And I just one really quick comment is that We will be I think Delivering to voters the really key thing we said which was Resolution of this issue one way or the other Councillor Hartnett, thank you at this time I'd like to make a motion that we send this to pack for further discussion Moved by Councillor Hartnett seconded by councillor pine councillor, you have the floor back great Well one I kind of envision this the same as really what we did with the auditorium as far as what will happen in the pack Next well, we'll have public input anybody that was here for the auditorium Public town hall setting the other night was it was incredible best one. I've ever been to and I hope that would be my Choice as is chair the pack is to move forward in that format Quickly just talk about the plan for a minute So I've been one of the most Critics here on the Amaran saying that needs to come down We need to you know have closure on this one so for all Until I heard the price tag and then I thought thought what a waste of money and now I hear phase one Which I I hope we can kind of just focus on phase one here and keep this realistic because I think it's realistic I think it's affordable and I think it's doable and I don't think we've heard that in a long time when we talked about Moran So it's great to kind of pipe dream about the other phases But if we could just keep our focus on phase one and and come to some you know kind of closure and move this forward So phase one would be about was it four four million five five point four Total cost construction and self-cost so when we go to the people the public and we go to the voters and we say We could really have a nice project here at the Not the waterfront with Moran It's within our budget of almost you know five point something million dollars or or we could tear it down for six million I mean, it's a pretty easy Right. I mean going forward with this. I mean I don't want to spend a lot of time I want public input I want to hear feedback But more importantly in that I really want to get closure on this and really move forward. I think this is very doable I think it's the first project that I heard that is a project for all everybody here that lives in Burlington We're not when I think of the Moran and I think I think of the old north end Right down the street Right when you think about that it's connected right to the old north end All right, though really the heart of our city and just another opportunity for families there to go and have a place To share in Burlington and own their waterfront. It's it's pretty amazing location of this so I I look forward to this coming to pack and Moving quickly on this I hope so Council pine could you could Councilor Arnett just spell out what PAC stands for for those who don't know the acronym Councilor Hartnett Parker Hart and culture Committee of the council. Yes. Okay. Thank you for that. I just wanted to say that I wanted to thank Councillor Hartnett, Councillor Shannon and Councillor Jang for the other night with Memorial. It's off topic here But it was a great event and because of the leadership of the three counselors and the and The chair's direction. I think we did have an awesome event And so we very strongly and endorse Bringing this to pack because we think it's the right spot to have that kind of robust discussion Thank You. Mr. Lunderville. We are not going to open that up to questions on that subject Any other councillor with any last burning comment before we Okay We have a motion on the table to send this to show support for the concept of this and send this to the PAC Committee for continued Work and review all those in favor. Please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Passes unanimously and I think you have a very strong message of Support even though we need to know a lot more obviously but Support for the concept for sure. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. President to the council Now move to item 5.02 on the agenda and that is a charter change that has come back from the Charter Change Committee Regarding Elimination of the business personal property tax and I will recognize the chair of the Charter Change Committee for a motion I Waved the reading and I moved to waive the reading and adopt the resolution I asked for the floor back seconded by Councillor Dean Councillor Shannon. Just want to open this I think this came to the Charter Change Committee with broad support from the council and I just note the Two main things that this does One is that currently Businesses do not businesses who have less than forty five thousand dollars in personal property don't pay the tax But businesses that have 45,000 and one dollars of personal property pay the tax on all of it not just the one dollar So we have corrected that in this language and Secondly We established that we are Our Our plan is to remove the personal property tax by July 1st 2026 or repeal it and also it had been requested by counselors that we keep the option open to do it sooner and The language that we have Allows us to do it sooner also According to our city attorney it would allow us to phase in the implementation of Removing the tax Thank You councillor Shannon councillor Mason. Thank you president right I'd like to thank the Charter Change for their quick turnaround on this But I also would like to thank picket sovereignty. Thank Beth Anderson for working on this This was an issue as you'll see from the letters of support that has had Or at least been very a vocal group in the enterprise light manufacturing, you know in the south end all the breweries Lake Champlain chocolate spurtin and others Who really approached councillor Shannon and I many years ago and we sort of acknowledged the problem But we're really at an impasse in terms of how to you know deal with it how do we generate the revenue in order to replace it and It really was Beth stepping up and coming with some alternatives that really move this forward So I just want to take this opportunity to thank her for her work Thank you. Thank you councillor Mason councillor pine I wanted to just provide one quick anecdote as to why this is so important on election day, I met a Constituent who needed a ride. I drove him in that my car to another polling place because he was he was the wrong He was registered at the wrong place. He was living in my ward, but he was Registered somewhere else. So I brought him to the other polling place And on that ride he didn't vote my election. Do you yes you did I brought him to his polling place But on the way back it was the weather wasn't great. He was I need to give him right He said his life changed when he got out of the service and moved here for a job at rhino foods And his been able to support himself and his family because of that job And those are the types of jobs that Burlington needs We need to be have living wage jobs and these types of jobs rely on intensive equipment intensive Operations and so if we can do anything that allows rhino to create more decent family wage jobs Stay here remain competitive. This is a this is a great investment because we're not taking away a tax on corporate profits We're not giving a tax break to corporations to line their pockets What we're doing is providing an incentive to invest and stay here and grow jobs here for folks here Thank You councillor prime good illustration of that point Other councillors Want to speak on this count mr. Mayor? Thank You president right I just Briefly wanted to say I'm excited. We seem to be on the cusp of taking the step and sending it to the voters This initiative of the voters are at least taking the public hearing to consider that This is certainly been an issue that has been raised by numerous Individuals and organizations going back really we've heard more concerns about this piece of Burlington's taxation than just about any I would say any other revenue generator for the city Certainly complaints about parking fees to acknowledge to Councillor busher, but this is one that raises a lot of concerns We've been interested in pursuing a way to address this policy issue. We really think this is bad policy. It leads Businesses to consider making investments outside of Burlington. We think it has driven some investment elsewhere the Change that we're proposing here is very consistent with What has been happening in cities and states around the country and and based on sort of empirical? well kind of analyzed policy thinking and what has been the challenge that has kept us from moving forward is How we accomplish this without putting Undue strain on other elements of the city's budget and on property taxpayers. We think the phase-out that Beth Anderson and her team have Created here Really presents a path forward where we can move away from this problematic tax that is bad for Burlington that is bad for Burlington property taxpayers. We think gent globally in that it leads to less investment and Detracts from our overall financial strength How do we do that with and? Not create major problems for one year to the next in the budget We think this plan gets that done and we're excited to see if the voters agree Thank You mr. Mayor. I think we are ready for the vote so all isn't all those in favor of Sending this charter change moving this charter change forward to the next step Which we will have public hearings in January with another opportunity based on those to make changes But all those in favor, please say aye Any opposed say no Hearing none that passes unanimously and we have Taken one important step. I'm moving that charter change that important charter change forward includes item 5.02 5.03 is Communication regarding the downtown improvement district and I will recognize Counselor roof for a motion and I know we also will hear from the mayor to set this up for us Counselor roof great. Thank you president right I would like to move to refer to the charter change committee Consideration of charter changes to the downtown improvement district Consistent with the discussions at the board of finance and report them back to the city council On December 17th at our meeting then After a second like you said we lost the mayor to walk through some relevant materials And after that request the floor back for some brief comments. Thank you seconded by councillor jang Council mr. Mayor Thank You president right So This proposal that is now before the full council of this item If people will Remember the council remember this process began Some months ago with It's really Some efforts on this have been going back for the better part of two years with the creation of a council created ad hoc committee the didac that council roof has served on and The board of finance was given Which is a little bit differently in the way we often do things was given the responsibility of trying to bring forward a cohesive proposal for this council to consider that would Examine this question of whether there is a after More than 30 years of outstanding success with the church tree marketplace Whether we wanted to consider expanding the enhanced services that the marketplace provides to other areas of the downtown and Finding other revenue sources to help pay for these downtown enhancements I will not What I guess when I'm what I've been tasked with I want to get to here is to present to you And update you on what the board of finance has done in this effort really over the last couple months, but it's come to a head over the last couple weeks and What this PowerPoint will be is a summary of Of a proposal that the board of finance just Voted to send to the Charter Change Committee voted to recommend to you that we tonight send it to the Charter Change Committee by a vote of Four to one and here are the the kind of major Elements of this proposal advance the next slide This this this let's go to the next one. This is just really Says the reason we're doing all this the one of the major Elements of this proposal is the way the governance of the we have an existing downtown improvement district We have an existing church tree marketplace There is really no formal connection between these two Business improvement districts currently that's an unusual structure to have These overlapping districts in this way and they also the way in which these the current districts are Organized and governed is different than the way in which the great majority of American improvement districts of this site type are organized this This governance proposal would essentially establish a 501 C6 nonprofit, which is the way the great All but a few of these improvement districts around the country are organized it would have a kind of Burlington twist on this as a number of these elements do in that The majority of the 13 member board would be appointed directly By future city councils with a mayor presiding the typical fashion that we appoint elected bodies and the other six members would be selected by the fee payers the I'll just touch on that and this is a Question came up in the board of finance exactly how would those elections work for those other six members Details like that. I think it's important to understand about this proposal There are many details like that that are not going to be baked into the charter and resolved at this stage in the charter Language they would be the product of future negotiations Between once the business improvement district the downtown improvement district is formed and has a board And the city council and the council would have Future approvals of the bylaws and a management plan that would answer questions like that Governance structure So these is just some additional detail on those on how those 13 members Not only would they be appointed by two different bodies. They would have there would be some additional Direction within the charter to ensure a diversity of perspectives on this board the This is an important point and that I think there's a substantial and we heard it some of this in the public comments tonight They're There there's there's been a concern raised that somehow by moving forward with this new improvement district that The city government would be divesting itself would be outsourcing some of its governmental responsibilities and This slide and then the There there is this is there's a attachment to the memo that details this really lays out and makes clear in a place that everybody can see that There is really no No governmental authority that is being handed over from the city council to the improvement district as a result of this charter change and You know, maybe when we get into discussion there might be more focus on that But I think that's the headline point that we want to make clear to everyone is that the charter will not this charter change will not involve the Reallocation of any governmental responsibilities to to the downtown improvement district The other point which Is up here and is something I just want to raise and make sure it's clear This is not this is consistent with our current policy is the city would have the opportunity if it decided it wanted the Enhanced snow removal for example that is provided currently by the church tree marketplace To clear the snow in front of city hall the way we do currently we could contract for that kind of service We could do what we do currently of Delegating to the downtown improvement district to do for example Licensing and permitting of vendors We that would be an option available to future city councils It would not be required by the charter and it would be something that The city would continue to have full kind of authority over how it wanted to handle those responsibilities so Well, let's move. This is the boundaries the district arts are Proposed in the in the memo if we can move to the next page to the if we can get to the can we get to the the map great so This is important thing to remember about this whole debate the downtown improvement district Already exists that everything that you see up there in that is sort of shaded and all of Our properties that are already within a downtown improvement district defined by the existing charter Today it is a very limited function for that downtown improvement district all all that Special taxation district currently does is put an extra fee on those properties that pays partially pays for free parking through our parking and one of the one of the Sources one of the kind of roots of this effort and where this came from is A desire from those fee payers to get better utilization out of those special taxes essentially that they are already paying out of a sense that that Provides limited value to them the way it's currently set up so the way this proposal which again is sort of a Consensus proposal that's emerged out of the board of finance and even though I'm summarizing it here I want to make it clear this isn't really something that the administration has been spearheading the Proposal is to take that existing downtown improvement district where properties are already paying additional taxes and that those remain the boundaries of The new district there is one exception to that which is the the block The part of a block that is colored purple there on the lower part of st. Paul Street Given that we are just in the process right now of rebuilding the that block of st. Paul Street We think it makes sense In and that this new improvement district may well take on responsibilities like enhanced Maintenance of landscaping for example in certain areas of the downtown it would make sense to for that those properties to be added To this new district in addition. There is a mechanism That would be in this proposal where additional adjacent blocks to That are contiguous to to the downtown improvement district could petition the non-profit board and the city to be added to this district over time and there would be a Mechanism by which if enough property owners wanted to You essentially want to sign up for additional fees in this additional areas that They would be able to you know start initiate a process that the the council and the non-profit board would decide on If we go back to the Okay membership in definition of fee payers Many Many of these again there are something like 1,100 of these Special improvement districts around the country. This is a type this this kind of innovation is something that many many cities have Found to be useful in the management and improvement of their downtowns They in about two-thirds the consultant that's been working for the city through this advice It's about two-thirds of those other districts Have some form of payment by residential properties into the improvement district that was considered by the board of finance and and ultimately the board decided that We did not think residential properties should be asked to Contribute to to this improvement area Although they will there will be some benefits to those properties of being within the area, but the board at this point at least has The way we are proposing it Would not have an assessment put on residential properties in addition There are a number of other properties that are exempted from paying these additional fees They're listed there religious organizations social service providers and government agencies would not Would not be assessed the That this However, there are some Types of nonprofits which have ability to pay which we do not believe should be exempted in the same in the same way and the Charter would include a provision for Eligible properties that feel they do not have the ability to play to pay to claim hardship and request relief from these additional fees Great, let me keep going fee collection this essentially says that the this additional fees will be assessed with the Tax bills in the in the city would have similar powers in terms of Securing those collections, I believe as proposed and there are also if they're Want to address a concern that somehow This nonprofit board could Make decisions that would really become burdensome on downtown properties, there's a couple protections against sort of a board There are a number of protections against a board Making bad decisions that hurt the downtown and that hurt property owners first of all You know there is a large number of fee payers on this board and the experience certainly in the tertiary marketplaces generally Boards like that try to be efficient with these additional fees. They're paying additional protection is that there would be this 5% cap on fee increases As proposed here Finally, there's also a city council approval ultimately of The budget and fee increases is another element of this proposal Yeah, I think we're almost done here present right The Appeal process would be similar to a tax appeal process and it would be public officials that would serve on the appeal board and Here's another important point about capital improvements the city retains responsibility for The responsibility we have currently to take good care of our public infrastructure the if there is a desire by the downtown improvement district to go beyond the kind of base level of infrastructure and Seek additional enhancements the What this provision would do is it would give the city the ability to consider some kind of cost share For that enhanced infrastructure if future councils felt that was something we wanted to consider doing and I think the bullet to their Points to the fact that again it the charter alone is Only one step in moving in this direction following charter passage there would be a Negotiation between the new board and the city about A whole range of issues including a management plan and by-laws and the council would Have approval authority over over those Both initially and then at various review and sunset periods set up by the charter thereafter this speaks to the Sunsets and Finally that the proposal says that these would that there'd be The meetings would be open to the public in minutes the board meetings would be available to the public as well That's my attempt at summarizing What is in the end, you know, there's quite a bit of Quite a bit of substance here. I hope that's helpful person, right? Good job. Mr. Mayor. Thank you for that and thank you city attorney Blackwood for all the work that went into bringing this proposal forward in a timely fashion at the end of last week and And putting forth the concerns that were set at the council. I mean at the board finance Excuse me as council roof you wanted the floor back. Yeah, we could get in we're gonna get in some details I'm sure but just a quick high-level comments I'm certainly excited after which is almost two years now to be taking another step forward and referring this proposal to the charter change committee As the council may remember and as the mayor started start stated It was about two years ago that this council formed the didac the downtown improvement district advisory committee That group was made up of a cross-section of community stakeholders Representing residents non-profits business owners as well as property owners I was also lucky enough to be appointed to represent the council on that body and have spent a significant amount of time on this issue Didac was charged with helping direct the flow of this important project And from the beginning there was one real guiding principle that we knew we must operate from if this eventual proposal Was going to earn the support of a majority of this council and of course the voting public This principle was that we must ensure This proposal be built upon a foundation of both common ground and common good In so far that it must deliver both economic and social vitality to our downtown for the benefit of our entire community It must not only serve the interests of one single group, but instead provide enhanced services That are mutually beneficial not just to businesses, but average Brawlingtonians our most vulnerable communities and visitors alike I believe that after a lot of work This proposal strikes that balance that we were looking for I Also understand and respect that those some around this table and certainly those and the community as well may define the terms of that balance differently Democracy as we know does not always lead to universal consensus However, I'll remind us that our decision tonight is to not sign off on this idea or concept or the details of it once and for all Except it is to only continue the community discussion by sending this important discussion off to committee I May want to jump back in during the debate, but for now I'll close by saying I hope that the majority of the council will join me in supporting this motion And I certainly do look forward to the discussion tonight. Thank you. Thank you council roof And so again the motion is to send us to the charter change committee charter changes have to be back by next Monday the 17th I know the charter change committee is meeting for the next two nights So I hope counselors can keep their comments more to I mean certainly if you want to tell the council if you're opposing this why you're posing it Otherwise, I think the best thing is for counselors to give guiding comments to the charter change committee if you're supporting this or Or if you have if you have questions, but just to keep it moving along who wants to open up Councilor Nodell Thank You president right This comes to the council on a 41 vote from board of finance to refer and I was the one vote the voted not to refer so I just wanted to share with the council and the public My thinking for that The proposal that we got from the administration is a huge step forward from where we were a week ago like an amazing amount of work has happened over the last week and The proposal that they're that they brought forward is very much closer to being like what a Burlington version of a downtown improvement district What should look like then what was in the consultants report? And I think that we generally agree with that consultant was very familiar with cities where the DIDs have Improvement districts have been set up as separate non-profits. There's sometimes almost little governments within a government And I think became quite clear from ten and many of us that that wasn't going to work for us We had a councillor's pine and roof and I had a hosted a a town meeting and We heard Variety of points of view. I might take away was a little bit different from what we heard at public forum I heard a lot of consensus around the idea of expanding the Services currently enjoyed by the businesses on Church Street marketplace to the side streets the idea of improving the experience of our downtown for everybody and we have a lot of different people that come downtown that use downtown and That is a strength of our downtown that it is not sanitized That we have lots of different people that feel welcome there and we are all committed to that continuing to be the case Even though some of us may we may end up disagreeing about how to get there I am confident that we are all committed to that Value So I heard a lot of support for bringing in the side streets for bringing in new resources for bringing new focus to our downtown as a place of Civic engagement a place of business certainly, but a place where people live and play at work The proposal that we got on Friday Does a great job of addressing a lot of the concerns that came up at the town meeting and that came up in the December 3rd Board of Finance meeting around Authority and making sure that that the that we as the elected officials are not giving away more authority than we then is any any Inappropriate that we are not inappropriately giving away any authority to a separate private non-profit entity And we have heard about how this model seeks to do that And it does do that in some important ways including the power of the purse rests with the city council and the mayor that that this is the assessments on businesses or essentially a tax and While some communities do let these improvement districts actually tax We're saying no We were not giving that away. And so there's a lot of value in the proposal that that we got So the consultant gave us these three different models They said you could have like a really highly privatized if you will it's like a nonprofit with a lot of powers You could keep it a city department or you could do something in between Okay, so I initially thought yeah, of course you do the thing that's in between Okay, it seems like you know Mary is those both of those elements and that's kind of what we have in front of us I'm kind of Burlington version of that The more I've gotten into it the more I think It's what is the thing it? What is this entity that we're looking at? Is it private? Is it public? What is it the two extremes in a way are clean because you can see exactly what they are You know and and there's some value. I think there's some value to that I wanted to Talk about a little better process. I'm gonna go on a little bit beyond my five minutes But it didn't speak on any other issue tonight president, right? You got it. Okay. Thank you The when I look at the idea of Kind of the short of it is that I'm not yet convinced that a separate setting up a separate nonprofit is the best way to do this And I could very well we be one. We just want to share some of my My thoughts about about why some concerns that I have One is that we will be If we set up this nonprofit then the nonprofit in the city of Burlington are gonna have to engage in a lot of negotiations About what is the basic level of services that the taxes will pay for? What's the extra level of service? There's a whole series of negotiations. There's going to be a legal document Okay, so you're already are we setting up this oppositional kind of relationship? That gives way to that creates a lot of transactions costs in terms of Negotiating the agreement and in terms of monitoring each other and trying to make sure that each other is doing all the things It says it's going to do Do is that necessary? Are we gonna get been enough benefit? Where's the benefit that you get for all that? Process-wise we This proposal has been in our hands just a few days the public hasn't had a chance to really see it The process is a bit compressed now that now that we're on the verge of warning charter language I'm a little worried about that. We do have a month in January where we can engage the public but but I'm I'm I Haven't yet had the opportunity here enough from my constituents about whether they have a comfort level with Accomplishing the goals that we I think are broadly shared in this way And I keep coming back to this key question that I have which is why do we need a separate non-profit? What does the separate non-profit get us and we may hear some some answers to that tonight? I do believe there there there was possibly a way to do this through the public model We didn't have time to develop it, you know I would be much more comfortable moving this forward if we had developed kind of a public option and Had that side-by-side with this option We don't have the time for that and so I think it's up to Maybe we still just go ahead as a group For me I would have That that's a little bit of a sticking point for me because I think that we could have put together a good model Working with the model of the department within the city And empowering Them more than they have now and addressing some of the issues that have come up over the years within that framework of a department One issue that I think that the counts that I'd like I think charter change might look at is that is Whether the new entity would be subject to the open meeting law and public records law Because at this point they would not be And I think that is an issue that might be worth worth looking at So I did vote to I just want to explain my my vote Vote against referring I'll be voting against referring tonight. We'll be talking about this at our NPA I hope to hear from more my position may evolve But as of tonight, I'm just not not there yet on the separate nonprofit. Thank you president right. Thank you council. No doubt Counselor pine then Mason busher and Tracy Thank you, mr. President. I think what I'll do is run through some questions really more for um, I Guess for the ordinance committee. I'm sorry the chart chart change committee. Um, I Because I think if we went through them, I have five here if we went through them and try to answer them I think we'd take too long so Really want to make sure that How do we ensure that the seven public members are genuinely chosen by the power from among the public and are not just a way to Essentially achieve a majority of of business owners or business interests on the board I think that's a legitimate question to ask and make sure we have some structure around that so that If the goal is to truly have seven general public members who aren't fee payers and aren't business owners Then I think we have to think about that in the structure and I think those details are important I'd rather not wait on all those details. I believe this structure means that the current employees of the marketplace Who are city employees with all the benefits and protections of city employment? How do we ensure that the new nonprofit would continue to carry out those same package or that same deal? I don't know that we can't but I think we have to consider that because we just are seeing that with Burlington telecom Employees seeing a big shift at least that was a concern that we've discussed. So I think we have to acknowledge that The Question I have is with the marketplace existing marketplace Properties continue to pay a higher fee than the off marketplace properties and if so What do they get for that different from the rest that wasn't there to be from the presentation So maybe that may be something that council roof or someone can speak to tonight and then the last thing is the inflation or the The increases of up to five percent strike me as a little little high a little rich I think that's if we were to do five percent rent increases for tenants in Burlington They'd be struggling badly So I think we ought to peg it to CPI or some measurable metric as opposed to just a five percent number Which feel like a Fledged number it doesn't feel like it's it's based on anything other than Maybe you know sort of gauging what sounds reasonable and then lastly I do have Remaining concern that a nonprofit board or their staff could exercise discretion around Perhaps more aggressive approaches to people on the street carrying out You know panhandling or whatever and just take a little more aggressive approach to that And it'd be more difficult for the city to kind of control and police that I'm a little bit worried about that All right, thank you councillor pine. I know councillor Joan councillor Shannon was taking notes and if any councillor councillor Roofer Whoever wanted to respond to this when it comes to their time They can will continue on with a queue with councillor Mason then busher and Tracy. Thank you president, right? I had two sort of areas. I was hoping charter change could look at and the first sort of has been touched on briefly Councilor Nadell referred to this long agreement My concern and then councillor pine was referring to control I've looked at the management plan. I'm sort of looking at from a breach perspective I appreciate we have the five-year and the ten-year options to you know revisit the relationship But it's not clear to me whether if a service wasn't being provided or we had issues, you know if if the management plan would have provisions that would allow us to hold the non-profit accountable to the services and the quality that they've agreed to provide I appreciate that's maybe a detail But it does from a control perspective and ensuring that people live up to the contract I think we need to be cognizant of that the other As sort of chair of the tax abatement committee, I'm really puzzled how abatement is going to work within this group We you know on the residential side We have statutory criteria and we sort of crib from state statute I don't know what the criteria are going to be and I'm also it's an interesting paradigm because we have this sometimes on the residential side Here my guess is you're going to have a bifurcation of the owner and the tenant and I'm guessing you're looking at the owner for you know, whether to pay so My assumption is that's passed through and really the difficulty paying or the problems are going to be at the business tenant side not at the landlord side, so I don't know how you guys are going to deal with that But that's something as I was hearing the presentation that I just sort of scratched my head like I don't know how you're going to do this So thank you for listening Thank you councilmation councillor busher Thank you As a member of the board of finance, I did move this forward And that's not to say that I don't have some Outstanding concerns, but I did feel like I wanted this to come to the full council And I actually do want it to move to the charter Change committee also Having said that one thing that was overlooked. I want to just focus on a couple of things the governance structure There are there are a couple of issues for me. One is I asked to have added to the Additional the group that are non voting ex officio members. I asked if a city councillor would be part of that group I am pretty cautious and feel that it would be good to have that direct communication from this board Back to the council and you know, we talked about whether or not that would sunset after five years I don't know if it would need to continue forever But initially it would I would like that there and there was agreement On that at the board of finance. So I did want to make that statement The other thing as we got to the map and we started talking about tiers because I was pointing out how broad that Did is and that it really was formed mainly for parking and so a single issue and now we're really broadening those issues And I was pointing out how maybe It wasn't just one district, but maybe two and and councillor roof mentioned that there are tiers within This district Which made me think Okay, so when we talk about membership on the board We have to make sure not only do we have residents and businesses and property owners But we need to make sure that we have representation From throughout that district because if you had every member In just the core downtown They would could potentially create Fees assessments whatever that may not be consistent with The individuals on the waterfront in other sections of the d id So I feel like there needs to be a lot of thought Going forward as you make these appointments. So that has to do with governance I think that the other thing was that I wanted to also say that I had some concerns about The details about if you note that there is a statement that the council will have to Before we can activate this district the the council will have to Approve the management plan and the bylaws And so I think once again if indeed this format moves forward, we have to really pay attention to these details Because that's how we will go do business and I think councillor nodell pointed out A concern About city versus the business community and maybe we would not always be On the same page and how We would work through all of those differences and And whether or not, you know, she did raise a question that I still have Impondering whether or not a non-profit is the right model or is it or should there be a different model? I think that A number of people have given us all a lot to think about and the charter change committee a lot to think about so Having said that I'm going to stop. Thank you. Thank you councillor busher councillor tracy Thank you president right With this proposal, I think that we are moving very quickly And as a result of moving very quickly fundamental aspects of this this proposal remain as yet undefined For instance, I would actually like to know How the people that are going to serve on this board will be selected because I think that directly goes to Who gets to be at the table and then as a function of that or as an extension of that The decisions that flow from that table that directly impact the public and in our downtown What is defined within this proposal to my eyes is slanted towards businesses and their interests And because and I think that that flows directly from the fact that they are contributing Money for this and they're going to want something for having contributed money to the downtown in terms of influence and in my mind that influence Could very much run counter to and against the broader interest of the burlington public for instance in terms of Downtown businesses they want and very much as a function of their existence need people to be spending money But a downtown isn't just about spending money A downtown is about so many other aspects of city life and interaction and socialization That we we cannot just reduce it to to spending money and I think that in Giving a significant amount of influence You know a majority of a board focused on business owners and businesses In the downtown that we very much run that risk I think that in In addition to that and that that could have some very significant impacts in terms of exclusionary practices In term in terms of exacerbating existing social harms Like some of the the class based issues that were raised in public form as well as some of the racial enforcement issues that were raised and that have manifested in other downtown investment districts and Beyond those more those deeper seated more fundamental concerns. I think there are also more programmatic concerns that could emerge in terms of either the The programming that takes place one key example that's been cited in this process is that for instance on church street We use That's public space for the festival of fools. Well, the business owners don't like that But the public loves the festival of fools because it's a project It's a thing that we all can enjoy for free and go out and enjoy But that takes attention away from people spending money So does that then mean in this structure that they get to maybe try and kill that? I think that one of their dissatisfactions is that under the current structure They really can't because we have a lot of control and have maintained a strong public influence with it within that current structure I think also when we look at streets, we're going to see some conflicts there as well Because if you look at for instance, the great street standards, which are all centered around these downtown streets You have a menu of options and those options can be Can be very different and can benefit different interests thinking of like a parklet versus a sidewalk cafe a a series of you know bike parking versus again More more cafe spaces or things that you know, maybe You know or less program spaces like a parklet where you know, maybe someone who's homeless could sit Or benches where someone who's homeless could sit those kinds of things may be programmed out because That doesn't benefit the business interests As part of a broader kind of effort to sanitize the the downtown environment in a way to disneify the downtown And so I think that these concerns At least for me are situated in a broader framework of sort of the creeping neoliberalism that we see Coming into and transferring to the municipal level where we see private interests Taking a much bigger role in Governance where we see an erosion of democratic structures and where we see More and more of an effort to elevate those business interests And and move away from the sort of downtown governance by the people for the people towards one that is By the few for the few so I will be opposing this and we'll be you know, certainly I'm on the charter change committee, but I certainly want to you know Express my serious reservations now and we'll continue to do so at the committee. Thank you, councilor tracy. Councilor roof just I just hope I don't have the opportunity like There were there was numerous assertions made in that last statement that just don't have anything to do with the proposal That is now in front of the council. So I'd like to address that in a timely manner, but um Can you wait for I'll come back to you? Okay, councilor roof Then shannon jang the mayor or we can go to councilor the mayor after council roof or If the mayor would like to respond I'd like to give him that mayor would you want to speak now that you can you can go Yeah, I would appreciate it. All right. I'm very thank you put me last in line. I'm sorry put You can put me last in line. Okay. Got it um So councilor tracy just laid out um a number of objections which were they Objections that were risks or inherent or in any way included in this Um Proposal would I think be real causes for concern, but they just they simply aren't there is no Authority being given to the downtown improvement district that would allow the downtown district improvement district to um Stop the festival of fools or future events like that from happening And we're there. I would not be sporting this if that was an authority that we were giving over those I think that is an a wonderful Uh festival that is in no way being put at risk by this and I think that's important to clarify similarly There's been, you know, the great street standards that were in the process of building um Has been an initiative of this administration Uh that we have strongly stood behind it. It is uh discouraging to hear inaccurately suggested that We would be giving up the ability As a city to define the public realm and to put in the public realm what we want We are not there's in in no way is that authority being Given over to this downtown improvement district. So We could Construct all sorts of Um Concerns about this. I think there are legitimate things to be debated here and and we've had a great discussion at the At the board of finance level and I'm sure the chart change will in the weeks ahead and then we'll have another month Uh before finalizing this in in january to short through other details But I would hope we could Constrict that we should focus in that important debate on things that are actually a part of this proposal Not fears about what perhaps some other districts do And or or things that are complete Red herrings with respect to what is actually in this proposal All right. Thank you. Mr. Mayor councillor shannon then jang and then roof Thank you president right. I wasn't planning on speaking to this I was really planning on just taking notes to bring back to the charter change committee and try to deliver what This body um wants to Wants us to come back to you with but when I hear our beloved local businesses being vilified the way I just heard I I have to speak up I don't think that um anybody would be too interested in coming to our downtown for any reason if it were not for our businesses and It's a struggle to keep local businesses in a downtown and we are so fortunate to have them because many Downtowns have lost their local businesses. We want to support them. They are our eyes on the street They are the vitality in our downtown And while there was a comment made about moving About festival of fools being somewhat a victim of their own success and perhaps having outgrown church street And maybe it could move to other parts of the downtown I don't think that there was a proposal to eliminate festival of fools. In fact, it's our local businesses that are um Really supporting bca who puts on the festival of fools and likewise. It's bca that's supporting our local businesses Uh, I I often talk to our good friend of berlington telecom gary evans About the success of church street and he shared that in winona Minnesota they tried to do the same same thing and it failed and he really credited um the the Vitality of the arts in berlington was a part of that. So I don't think that there is some antagonism between Between the arts and festival of fools and the vitality of our businesses They're all linked together and this is not a proposal to Let the businesses take our tax dollars and spend them as they may This is a pro proposal where the businesses will generate Additional tax dollars To be spent on additional enhancements beyond what we could otherwise afford So I I just don't want this to be construed as something that it isn't And I think that we should all be grateful that we have the businesses that we have downtown. They support our nonprofits um they they Provide what we all love about downtown berlington whether or not we can actually patronize them They are the vitality of our downtown. Thank you Thank you councillor shan and councillor jang and then councillor roof Thank you president and um the question that I have is For the city attorney and it's more about process from here to After the ballot items. What are the steps that we need to take to get there? So what after the charter change committee meets um tomorrow and wednesday if they bring back to you assuming you Tonight if you refer to the charter change committee, I guess I have to start there Then the charter change committee will look at um at language and then assuming they bring back language to you on the 17th you you Will have before you then a resolution to warn a Two public hearings to consider the charter changes those public hearings are going to be scheduled for January 22nd and 28th Which is you have council meetings those nights and then I believe the 28th is the last night that you have to vote Amy can you confirm that it's the january 28th is the last night you have to vote on Putting the language specifically on the ballot The way that charter changes are set up according to state law is that once you warn them for public hearing You can make changes to those Charter changes based on the comments made at public hearing And one of the and those public those comments can be Comments from the counselors as well. Um, so It's just that they have to be made at public hearing. We can't make changes except what's said at public hearing But we can make those changes And and yeah, and if we go to the ballot and let's say It wins 96% So does it come back here to the council? No, if it wins at at at the in the at the ballot box It goes to the state legislature and then the government operations subcommittee of the Legislature looks at it and works on it and eventually it has to work its way through both Houses and generally The legislature tends to if the voters have voted particularly if they voted very strongly for Charter changes to move those through fairly expeditiously. This is somewhat complicated And but it will depend a little bit on the the vote and then the then They present it to the governor and the governor has to sign it Once the governor signs it it'll have an effective date on it and at that point it will just go into effect Thank you. And lastly Yeah, so um, the mayor asked me to mention one other piece is the way that we are perceiving this based on What's been put what's going to the charter change committee unless you all tell us to do something different is that there will be a number of Agreements for the city to negotiate with the board including An annual budget a draft management plan bylaws for the operation Of the entity and that a base level services agreement I think those are the primary ones. I might have forgotten one and And you will have some time to do that That likely until you know that the legislature is adopting it I don't know. I don't know what the timing of that will be but won't actually start Go into effect until after the it is signed by the governor and one of the things that we have built in To the draft right now is that the church street marketplace will continue to operate as it has been operating until Those charter the new charter changes are adopted and you have negotiated the these various agreements for operation And can we make sure for example the charter change committee? Is it possible for us to Charge the charter change to come up with an advisory language from the community instead of Like a done deal. So for example, we just want to seek Advice from the community about this and then instead of going to the state So it comes back here for us to vote on it and then send it to the state. Can we use that process? For example, like the f35 What comes back you will vote on the actual language when it comes back But they're they have to They have to give you some language to to vote on I think because You have to on the 17th warn it for public hearing or it has to wait until the next Thank you city attorney blackwood and councillor jane. So Could the council ask the charter change committee to put forward a Advisory question instead of a charter change Exactly a councillor could make that motion if you wanted to and you would have to get support from the full council From the majority of the council to do that right now Absent any move by a council or motion by a council like that. We are looking at a charter change And any of the charter change that we're looking at follow all of the What city attorney blackwood except for the last part? They all follow that same process where the charter change committee will send them to us If the council wants to do that We have a vote if we if we move them forward it has the public hearings If if the voters support them they go to the legislature all charter changes do Thank you But I have you know, definitely questions about governance authority the appeal of abatements and advisory ballot But which are you just answered but I think at this point We can we can move forward. Thank thank you. Thank thank you councillor jane Councillor roof then councillor hartnett and then I think we should be ready for a vote Thank you President right. All right, so a few things And I might go over my five minutes. We'll see Let me start by not addressing directly councillor tracy, but some of those comments as well because I'm less I'm less so frustrated with your response because I had those same reactions when I first started to engage In this idea. I really had those same those same concerns But but that's what they are their concerns and like I said in my my opening We really did work through those items as I said in One of the council work sessions or one of the board of finance meetings Those concerns for me is I've always been the rubric The standard the test that we'll use when this thing is finally baked Not just to the charter change process, but those post charter vote processes as well Which there are many that are built in intentionally To make sure that we can try to poke holes in this and if for some way we did They did sneak in somehow design authority Well, no, we're gonna cross that out if they did somehow sneak in extra policing authority. No, we're gonna make sure that's a test So quite genuinely. I'm not frustrated with your with with your reaction And I look forward genuinely in working tomorrow And maybe maybe wednesday at charter change to talk about each and every one of those and really dive in So there's that so I'd also like to respond You've got a lot of notes here On issues of process as well as respond to some concerns brought up in public comment and some other various comments From counselors while not belaboring it because I do hope that we have more time with this Throughout the coming weeks and months. So public process. Let me start there. So From my perspective, I think there has been a robust public process. I think that we've done a lot We've certainly gone through processes that have had less public process than this I think this has had a high level, but don't take my word for it. Let's look at Some of the some of the process here, I'm going to note if my computer dies, I'm going to ask for a timeout and then I'll jump back in So let's start here Initial presentation to the city council A while back on the topic of global trends. Thank you Global trends in the downtown Kicked off the process We had dozens of stakeholder focus groups Multiple surveys that have captured the opinion of well over a thousand community members Two town hall meetings and multiple council meetings and work sessions furthermore as of today The board of finance has met five times on the topic In the council may remember That as the mayor noted we we asked the board of finance to take the lead on this discussion So I just want to remind people that the the present the presented proposal tonight is Not put together Simply to meet the administration's priorities This has been much more of a collaborative approach and that's why we chose the board of finance because it does have By intentional design a balanced makeup Let's look forward a little bit If there's some if the council supports this tonight, and I hope that we do The council will meet me twice and then there are two public meetings that are required by law And as the city attorney mentioned we have the ability to make changes based on that feedback feedback Which is an important step Last on process we've talked a little bit more I want to I want to build them on a little bit here so people have a clear understanding Of what sort of public accountability measures we've put in place After the charter vote and by the public because we know we Much like with regional dispatch the council is uncomfortable moving forward with an entity that doesn't exist We want to make sure that we have more bites at the apple So what are some of these things we approve the inaugural governance Bylaws which establish how the board would function which is critical and then also We we approve what's called a management plan Called an mo u an agreement a contract we call it a management plan through this process Which would establish the functions and limits on the district and I'll probably bring this up again in talking about how I'm less scared about negotiations because the management plan really limits the purview of what they could be able to negotiate with us I'm trying not to take up too much time. Okay. So public comments. Let me start let me talk a little about public comments Let me start by saying That there was a comment early on that struck me someone said I forget who it was but They conditioned their comments by saying I'll remove emotion from from my from my comments I think maybe to make the case that if you're emotional your arguments aren't as legitimate So I just agree with that quite a bit actually I would argue that this discussion is and should be Emotional and I'm certainly emotional about it We're talking about our downtown and I would venture to say that we all at some level Have an emotional connection to this part of our community. So I say that's invite emotion into this but the trick As we're learning more so and more so in our world is to not let emotion and pure opinion Confuse facts of the matter And so while not losing our emotion here, let's let's look at a few more facts that I wanted to bring up And we can continue to talk about maybe in In board of finance because we don't want the concerns that council trace use and other And others have have brought up to manifest as reality. Those are two very different things Having concerns and fears. So there's one thing building a policy that prevents Those fears to manifest is really art of what we do here So, okay easy one to start off for the d.i.d. Will not increase police presence Nor would the ambassador program become some private security force So in fact, I see great potential in the district partnering with the Howard center street outreach team I like this partnership particularly because Again, these fears are legitimate and in other districts districts. They've got it wrong But when you partner with an institution, I would consider them an institution like Howard street street outreach You're going to build in those protections by way of how they do business, which we all I think support I've had early conversations with the street outreach team I sat down with them with a member of the team Last week and and they had some positive reactions to this but still concerned About what the details look like but some good news is that they've expressed interest in doing things like participating in trainings much like they do with our parks patrol of this ambassador program also participating in the development of their job description So that we have that check they know what engaging with these vulnerable vulnerable communities requires and making sure that those Job descriptions which we could ask to be part of the management plan so that we have oversight over them We can have we can have some assurances that it's not going in that in that direction that we all don't want it to go Furthermore on this point. I want to make this point Right now we have four members on street outreach And we know that funding is a significant issue We don't know how to grow that team back to its historical high of six and we know the need is real Street outreach estimates about $80,000 a year is required to fund each new additional team member that salary plus benefits Plus administrative fees And I look that I look at this improvement district born from not the general tax base, but just taxing Businesses additionally to be a funding partner and we can build that in to our government The management plan to hopefully start to grow that number from four up to It's historical high of six if not if not more quite frankly. I would not support The final version of this if there's not some real concrete Commitments around building that team. So even I may vote against this someday Okay, next one. I'm going to try to move quicker here. How many more council roof? We really do understand. I will ask for a little bit of leniency. I did practice restraint earlier But let me keep moving May I keep Continue but I we really do need to I mean there's a lot on the table and I do apologize I am trying to make some we do have another bite at the apple coming when the charter change committee comes back But okay, just try to move through these quickly. I'm excited about your optimism Um, so a couple more things may find out at some point while they're true. Yes All right, two quick things right we have built in protections around Effects potential effects on renters first and foremost simple one we were we eliminated the restrict we eliminated Fees to residential properties But more so we're going to make sure that only the the space within commercial buildings That goes to retail or some other commercial activity Not the space used for Rental units are going to be assessed Which means the landlords will not pass on those additional costs to renters because there will be No additional costs associated with that space I think that is critical in preventing some of these gentrifying impacts that people do have Fears of and when you get a d id wrong, you can have those impacts We have made steps that that will not be the case. I'm going to do this one super quickly Some of our most wealthy institutions in town operate and are organized as nonprofit entities The goal with including them is to capture that Them while giving a I think low barrier Hardship opportunity for others small other small and nonprofits To not be impacted by that I'll go on record now by saying this is a response to another public comment That I'll support nothing that would input that that requires the homeless shelter to be Pushing I'll be participating in this process. I'm going to stop there and Um, uh, we'll address all my other points at the charter change committee tomorrow. Thank you Thank you, councilor roof. Councilor heart net and then we should be ready to vote I think when we talk about public process It's it's hard for us sometimes to think that how it wasn't How wasn't not a good public process how it wasn't And because we're so close to it. So we think public process has always Done well and when we have something that's just been handed to us three days ago I don't know how we could say that public process is Is really played out well here And so I'm concerned about that Okay I'm concerned about The makeup of the board and how that's going to shape How we will be shaped I'm concerned If this does go forward How the negotiations would work Between the two and who would be part of those negotiations? I think that would be key of how that works and then Lastly but kind of just the overall You know dark cloud that is hanging over us all with town center Like I'm just it's I'm uncomfortable where we are downtown in a lot of different ways And so tonight if I had to vote on this I would I would vote no But I'm going to send it to charter But I think we have I think we have some work to do on this Uh, and so I'm I'm going to reluctantly send it to charter and look to See what comes from there. So thanks. Thank you council heart net We are ready for a vote. And so I would ask all those in favor to Of sending this charter change this to the charter change committee Please raise your hands And those opposed raise your hands So that passes by a vote of 10 to 2 And moves to the charter change my optimism was well founded Um, and now I need a motion. I'll recognize councilor Councilor trace councilor mason, excuse me Thank you. Uh, the hour is 10 30. So I just need to make a motion to suspend the rules Um, I would like to take up the next 5.04 And I think believe at that we will end our meeting Councilor mason has made the motion to suspend our rules And only to take up the next item and not to take up committee reports, etc So this requires a two-thirds vote all those in favor of the motion, but I need a second Second my councilor tracy All those in favor, please say aye Hi, any opposed? No That the motion passes by a vote of 11 to 1 Uh, and we will now move into what now will be our final item of the night And that is item 5.04 Uh, resolution reestablishment of the neighborhood planning assemblies Uh, etc. And I am recognizing councillor jang Councilor jang, you have the floor Thank you president and I would like to move the resolution calling for Um This community economic development office to work with our npa's to find out their financial resources Need and also to implement a mechanism in which those needs could be allocated And I would like to have the floor back council no doubt did you Do you have a point of just a quick point point of order? Um Can we just get a clarification of the version of the resolution that we're moving? Good point Councilor councillor is Cedo neighborhood planning assembly npa. Uh, it's a harness jang npa resolution docket with changes This is the one that was that was uh revised this afternoon. Yes, okay All right. And so councillor jang, you have moved the resolution Yes, and seconded by councillor heart net and councillor jang. You want to you wanted the floor back? Yes Yeah, thank you And I want to start by thanking all the city councillors who have been working diligently Especially this weekend To make up this resolution even better and I want to I think it has sparked so many conversations in the city And earlier we had another version and that version had so many Other asks and but many people could not wrap their hand around the lack of community Involvement of their inputs were not in But we all know that we all value the npa so much npas bring us together npas build the communities and npas also host us as elected officials to bring wonderful Feedbacks to the community and also gather feedbacks So the neighborhood planning assemblies were established more than 30 years ago To provide residents with the means to participate in direct Government and advise their government But the neighborhood planning assemblies also play an important part bringing the residents together, especially The college students or youth in order for them to Um interact with Burlingtonian as well as to complete their Community assignments. So the neighborhood assemblies also They do so much, but we know it's been now couple of years that they have been asking for funding and um, I think this resolution is having an open process Tasking the community economic development office to work with the neighborhood planning assemblies to basically Ask about what they need What they need in terms of financial resources? And also not only from the steering committee members, but also from neighborhood planning assemblies members What are your needs and also if we allocate the resources unit? What are the type of activities and programs you will be Creating or you will be using those resources too And at the same time CEDO Will be working also with the neighborhood around the administrative support around how those allocation could be, you know Could be worked on And you know, we hope that this will be a very Community oriented resolution asking everyone to put their input because the hardest part sometime when you want to support people Is to find out what they what they want and having an administrative administration Someone from this administration to do the work for all of us would be beneficial for the community economic development office For the nps steering committees and also for even us as city counselors So thank you so much, and I hope that you all work for this resolution for us to move forward Thank you. Thank you. Councillor jane. Councillor hartnett Thanks I will thank councillor dang. This actually started out as a one-page Resolution that was asking for funding for the nps. It's to me. It's more about the it's more than just about the funding That's about the purpose of the nps You know what they should be doing and and how can we better Help them and to enhance nps and right from You know block parties to getting young high school kids involved to just different activities I think we could we could do so much with I think over the years that I've been here on the council for the last eight years At least once every year. I've made it to all the nps I don't think I've missed but I'd have to go back and look but at least spend a one of them throughout And and there's kind of a theme there. We heard it tonight at public forum You know, they're they're desperately asking for for the cito in the city to get get involved I went to the last two all wards mpa meetings Both meetings that I attended I asked them to to get involved Help me form a resolution bring it to the council You know kind of, you know, just bring some clarity about You know, how they want to pursue how they want to proceed Here in brook and it's not about politics. It's about making a difference in our neighborhoods, right helping individuals out helping families out There's there's so much more that we could do with the nps and and when I think about the funding I think about when it first started years years ago it was triple or three times as much as what they have now and And and they made a major impact in those days and I I would like to get back to those days And and so I hope this is the start that you know We check all our egos at the door here tonight because I understand over the conversation this weekend I chose not to get involved quite honestly because I don't have the patience to to read some of those emails and and Here, you know counselors or people from the public You know, they can't get out of their own way that it's more about them than it is this process It's it's disappointing quite honestly So let's check all the egos out the door here And let's move forward on this and let's make a difference in in our neighborhoods Thank you councillor hartnett councillor shannon and then councillor mason Thank you president, right? I think councillor jang is exactly Right when he says that we all value our npas and unfortunately we all were not consulted as this Resolution came forward We heard that there was some resolution. We weren't shown this resolution in advance and the feedback I got from From I believe I'm the only one at the table who actually serves two npas and the feedback we got From both the ward six npa and the ward five npa was aghast at this resolution coming forward Um and while there were efforts to change the resolution today the resolution Uh, you know our npa Steering committee members work and our npas are not just our steering committee members They are those who show up and attend these meetings and that there's been no discussion with them about the proposal That's moving forward, which is a new proposal in just the last hours Um, this is an issue that is not time sensitive Uh, you know councillor tracy complained last week about information being presented to us at five o'clock When that issue had only come up just the week before and so it was very hard to get the information out on time This is not a time sensitive issue um The npas uh that are speaking to me, which is the the two of them um Are are not supportive of moving this forward and mostly not so much because of the current content Of what's being proposed But the process by which it got here offends them Oh, jeez, and I will not be supporting this uh This resolution because I think if we want to be talking about the npas we need to engage the npa npas Thank you councillor shannon councillor mason and then councillor ruf. Thank you president right so councillor shannon hears from some of the same people I do she's you know both ward five and ward six um, I will not be supporting this I did hear um throughout today Uh significant concern from the steering committee members in ward five about the process There was confusion about what it was we were voting on um, you know the late late late nature But the question you know that was posed by a few committee members was You know they again from a process perspective that you know, this was the council telling the npas what to do not vice versa I do appreciate that as revised the resolution does seek that input But what i'm hearing from the steering committee of my npa is that they do not support this and I will be respecting that and voting no Thank you Thank you councillor mason councillor ruf uh busher dean tracy So I uh, I'm not sure how I'll vote on this at the moment. Um, to be honest, I have not I did not have the the time to really engage with it or see a lot of the emails that have gone Back and forth. I wasn't able and that's that's more so because of of a work schedule and in other council work But um, I do know that uh, the ward one and eight and I'm not sure I don't believe they were Consulted throughout this process. Um, so I may vote. I may vote no, but just want to be clear that I think this is a I think this is the right thing to be talking about. Uh, I think that there's definitely a way for us to build Uh, a proposal that we can all feel good about I feel that mpa funding Should not maybe like councillor hartnett said doesn't need any of the bull Almost had a councillor hartnett moment. Um, you don't need any of that nonsense. Um, I think that there's a way to get collective support for this and if it does go down, I would be Happy to to work with the makers and others on putting either something that I think would be pretty easy to get unanimous Support with at a future meeting, but those are my comments. Thanks. Thank you councillor roof councillor busher Dean and tracy So, um, thank you president right. Um, so I read the original resolution and Although, um, I saw some flaws because I saw that Wards five and six don't meet together. You know, there there are a number of different things that we don't have good food I'm envious of those that have good food Um and wards one and eight Um, it still speaks to what I have said for the last I don't know how many years when marsy's come here and I've Mourned the loss of the little local funds that we had to allocate around specific neighborhood needs Um, I have not recently gone to the all Awards steering committee, but in the last couple of years few years ago. I did go And they were looking for additional funds And they also that that particular group of steering committee members and and they were all All of your wards were represented. We're mourning the loss of funds Mourning the loss of support from sido mourning the loss of having monies that they could allocate for specific Ward specific needs So for me the heart of this is all pure and good The process may need to be tweaked and improved a little bit But I don't think that you know, I don't think this speaks Against what all of the citizens in burlington really are looking for is to empower the npa's In a number of ways and this is one way to do that I would certainly respect a process that would send this to the all ward steering committee just for notification and then bring it back Hopefully so that we could vote on it. Um, I've seen the streamline version I'm disappointed that it doesn't give the $10,000 to each section because I know I've got neighbors who are just waiting to allocate But I would support this And I guess I'd respectfully ask the makers and the people who've put all that effort into this resolution To consider potentially sending it to the all ward steering committee and return it to the council for Adoption, thank you. Thank you councilor busher councilor dean and then councilor tracy Thank you president right. I I'd like to recognize Richard hilliard who's sitting in the audience tonight who Was awake early this morning when I was awake at about 5 30 And emailed me asking me what's going on. I don't understand What what's this all about? I'm getting nonsensical information coming back from the all wards And various things so I can't believe that this is before us Maybe I'm echoing councilor tracy's complaint that this showed up on friday It ended up in our you know being considered and then it was changed and it in nearly its entirety or the second portion of it disappeared this afternoon I feel as though it's not We haven't gone through a process that recognizes the the amazing contributions that the npa's make to the Um to the conversation and the debate about what's appropriate to our city. I think that It's well motivated. I I agree with that that we do need to provide adequate Funds to our npa's to do the work that they do to have these micro grants is a great idea I think the process is flawed I think that I you know might as I look at it now. I cannot support this And I would suggest that we we just back off a little bit take the time. That's necessary There's a good point made. This is not time sensitive We've had the opportunity to look at this Many months in the past. I think that we can do this also in the future We can get this addressed in the year ahead So I I I think I I I am coming down coming down the side and not being able to support this Thank you councilor dean councilor tracy I would just say that it doesn't seem to matter if it comes from the administration late Doesn't not a concern doesn't seem to matter never never answer a question Stuff's been coming to us late for years But no one's raised this concern then we make some concerns to make the resolution more more broad to water it down and suddenly Oh, it's the biggest deal in the world because we're we don't want to give councillor jang a win. Well, that's terrible That's embarrassing. Stay consistent on this stuff Second I would say that this is this is a you know this resolution I got to thank councillor jang for being Open to to making changes to the resolution because he heard back feedback on things Sometimes stuff comes out on a thursday in the public and you hear from the public based off of that That they have concerns with it like the good deed program Well, we heard from laura hail that she has an existing program that she didn't feel like would work with that So councillor jang was willing to to get rid of that and I think that that's speak That's how kind of democracy works. You have to hear from constituents We heard from many people who were involved in mpa's that said it's too specific We need a little bit more time to process and I think it's important to understand What exactly is in the resolution which says that we're going to Work with to quote it to work with neighborhood planning assembly steering committee members to identify financial resources that support the values The valuable services of the neighborhood planning assemblies in the city of burlington And then in the next resolve clause it says we're going to work with neighborhood planning assembly steering committee members and mpa members to gather examples of activities and programs in which the needed financial resources could be spent And for cito to identify the administrative support and management mechanism of the needed financial resources And we don't ask for these recommendations until may So How are you opposed to that? How are you opposed to going to the mpa's and saying do you need more money? What could you use that money for how much is that going to cost? I think that that's you know an open-ended conversation that we absolutely should be having in fact that we have had at our mpa Several months ago during the budget season and it was considered a little bit You know laid in the process and we said you know Let's continue this conversation because our mpa is at a point where we're bursting at the seams where we have You know where we're serving over well over a hundred people for the meal where we have more and more people attending We have more and more You know people who have not come before attending and engaging and we absolutely need this support I don't feel like we can really wait for this support We need to start the process of thinking about how we can better support the mpa's now Thank you councillor tracy before I recognize councillor hearton And I just want to I did not interrupt councillor tracy. We have violated a few rules tonight And we need to be careful about that, but I a rule was just violated about Imputing improper motivation for people's for people's votes how they're voting So I would just caution councillors to not go down that path councillor hearton Just a couple things I would say it is time sensitive if If you had visited all the mpa's throughout the city and see Really what I can what I see the decreasing Activity and and mpa's and really you know where they were and where they are now I do think it's time sensitive that that we act on this I I'm surprised that nobody else is here from The other mpa's that were so upset and concerned that they couldn't take a few minutes out of their night You know knowing this was on the agenda to be here tonight to speak out against it I will say That as I've said in the past I've met with the all wards mpa Every ward was represented except for ward five at the last one And everybody Was in agreement that it was time to do this on the all wards mpa, so for me There is no harm here And and for those who are saying You know they're surprised by this and the timing and I would say that you've been out of touch with your steering committees at your mpa's That's what I would say because that's not the message that they were given to me And I just met with them three months ago. I met with them a year ago. I met with them two years ago And so somewhere there's a disconnect here Right and I agree with councilor tracy. I think partially the disconnect here is where the resolution came from and that is unfortunate counselor Pine and then councilor jane. I was not ready. I thought I saw a hand go up before me so um the I have to give a little bit of history real quick I served on an mpa steering committee when I was just out of college because the ward one mpa was such an exciting place to go for a recent college graduate and councillor busher was a member but um the I think it's probably Safe to say that all of us Got involved through our neighborhood planning assemblies really most of us did and it's an avenue for people to to enter civic engagement that's really Um accessible and is non-threatening and I think it's it's a fairly easy way There's not a lot of barriers to entry, but it doesn't serve everyone either um it was once told to me by a constituent that she thought that the mpa was Basically not for her because she thought it was for College educated and middle-class people And I didn't think that was the case but that was that was her perception and I heard that and it has always Stuck in the back of my mind as a way to Open up the doors throw those doors open and bring more people in and I think we've never fully Realized that potential. It was a great idea in 1982 There's probably a dozen people who take credit for it in 1982 But it doesn't really matter who created it really what matters is that we have As richard hilliard said earlier if we didn't have it we'd be figuring out how to create it now and come up with a way to do that um Really what can councillor jang and heart net? I think put forward is a starting point just a discussion point to begin this process To engage the community in a way to support greater civic engagement. I don't see it as Stepping on people's toes or really I think it's unfortunate that people perceived it to be this great power grab and there was stuff all over facebook About how it's the end of a 35 year old institution and I mean just complete hyperbole complete conspiracy theories Were undertaken and it really did a disservice to this community. I would hope that we cannot Stoop to that level and just stick with what we're trying to do here is to create a venue for people to come together Identify mutual needs mutual problems help to solve problems Provide a real input to city councillors and to the administration Give the city a way to really engage with the public in a meaningful way. I think we all Share that goal. I hope we all just remember We've got six months for this process done full. This is not you know, we're starting it now We're not asking for a huge Undertaking but in six months. I think the community can accomplish quite a bit. I hope folks will support this Thank you councillor pie and councillor jang and then councillor paul and I think we should be moving toward A vote councillor jang councillor jang is passing councillor paul Okay, I wasn't quite expecting that um, thank you president right Um, so I wanted to just mention that um, I did send A number of emails back and forth. I'm starting on friday to the four Sponsors of the resolution and do want to thank councillor jang for his willingness to respond Not once or twice or three times, but many times to the questions that I had and You know, I I was surprised when Um, I I got an email from councillor jang Just a couple of minutes before a new resolution was posted And given the fact that it was around two o'clock in the afternoon and Uh, it was then going to be three hours later at a board of finance meeting. I didn't have time to really Respond to it. Um and I also You know, I feel as though the You know, what we've all said around this table is that one of the hallmarks of the npa's Is and one of the things that they fiercely value and and we fiercely value about them Is their independence and self determination and you know, I I know we've all gone back and forth at this table. I don't want to get into a Debate about timing On for all of us. We're all used to that kind of timing of things coming out at the last minute But I I'm not sure that the npa's are as Used to it And I feel like we could make this something that we could all be incredibly Enthusiastically supporting if we all had time to go back to our npa's and see if this is something that is more amenable Than the first one which I think councillor shannon has already mentioned in ward six. There was A lot of pushback to the original resolution And I'm grateful that you that you made changes I just don't know if there are changes that They can live with and I feel like we should be asking them first Since they're the ones that really are affected by it There were a couple of people that came and I appreciate that there were a few npa steering committee members that were here There wasn't one here from ward six Um, and I didn't have a chance to get in touch with them. Um, so uh, you know And it does represent a bit of a a shift We're now asking cito to do this work They probably are already doing some of this work in their outreach because of the public engagement specialist Having it referred to a public entity like cdnr I thought that actually was a a better approach But in any event I don't think that it's something I can support now if if it were to come back to the council At some future date After there has been an opportunity for the npas to fully respond to it I would be more enthusiastic in supporting it. So thank you Thank you councillor paul councillor no doubt. Um I would like to hear from the makers Uh, why this is going being tasked to cito instead of cdnr Instead of the committee I'd like to continue Thank you councillor nodell councillor jane. Would you like to address that? Yep, um, because already we have cito staff Already staffing all the npas. They go to them every single meeting not only in one ward but across the city and cdnr It is going to be actually the opposite instead of cd staff to go to npa now npas are coming to us and I think what Councilor paul was just talking about npas why they great it's because of their apolitical Notion and also their autonomy And I think in order to preserve that we have to let them drive the bus And letting them drive the bus is basically bringing a staff who can find them where they are and ask the real great question What are your needs? How are you going to use it and how we can work together and I think those are the reasons why Tasking a cito staff who can go To npa at meetings at night or organize meetings where they can come join would make the most sense But I think the questions to ask are if the reports Come from the cito staff. Where does it go? Does it go to cdnr To be refined or does it specifically go to the board of finance? Councillor nodel. I'll send you. Councillor nodel is all set Councillor Jang, did you also want the floor back to speak? I know you had your hand in Yes, yes, I wanted to speak to just a couple of comments that I heard here and I think one of them is The updated resolutions Most npa steering committee members actually like it including people who are in world five People who are in world six. They seen actually this resolution the original one We also have so many npa steering committee members who came over here in front of us Asking for the support Right supporting this because they feel this is an open process and people will have the time to be able to work together I wanted to clarify that and also when we talk about there is this distinction between taking a decision and opening a process Taking a decision hiding information to take a decision and also Having decision to take a process. I think those are very different and it's important to make the distinction This is calling to have an open process to better work with our nps Thank you president. Thank you councillor jane councillor dean Thank you president right I would like to offer a motion That would allow all of the city councillors an opportunity to go back and talk to their npas to gather input And then to return and pick this issue up again at our next council meeting Or after a time after the the city councillors Have had the opportunity to actually consult directly with their npas councillor dean you're making a motion to postpone action on this Resolution until our next meeting to allow the the the councillors an opportunity to speak directly with their npas So the motion is to postpone action correct Needs a second Second by council roof So we now have a motion on the table to postpone action Um point of order point of order councillor shannon a motion to postpone is to a time certain A motion to table puts it on the table until Uh, it's picked up by the council so I'd like to If I could amend my motion to say this is uh A motion to table this until such time As councillors that have that the opportunity to talk with their npa so not Necessarily at the next meeting but until councillors have had a chance to talk to their npa members and come back Okay, so the motion is to table this um Point of order I think is a motion to table debatable Uh council city attorney blackwood is this debatable a motion to table If you need a moment, it's interesting point of order. Hold on one at one at a time Councillor pine, what is your point? Hold it. Okay, please. All right, councillor pine. What is your point of order? That I did consult reverence rules. Um, we can certainly give the city attorney time to do it One thing I did determine is that a tabling requires two-thirds council majority. That's one rule that we should be aware of I have that Okay Point of order man point of order councillor nodel. Thank you president right Um, I believe councillor deans is the motion to postpone That somehow got morphed into a motion to table and I believe there is a an ability to postpone indefinitely Or I don't believe that that you can postpone until You know after some action is taken and then take it back up without providing a specific date So I don't think we should be treating this as a motion to table because I didn't hear him Make that motion It did actually sound like a motion to postpone to me He hasn't he has now put it out as a motion to table So there is um There is a motion to postpone indefinitely So yes, it could be made as a motion to postpone indefinitely There is also a motion to postpone to a definite time. Those are two a different one um And is there a difference in a requirement for two-thirds between tabling and postponing that i'm trying to find I don't need different counselors jumping in with this. Sorry. I apologize City attorney blackwood. Do you know if the motion to table is debatable? Well right now he said table Can we have a discussion while we're waiting or uh, no, no, okay Just I get some cheap shots in We don't need anymore. Okay. Okay point of information Point of information councillor dean So my intent here Is that this motion allows the opportunity For all of us to go back and speak with our npa's directly and gather information Whether it's a motion to postpone or a motion to table That that's a technicality, but I want to get to that point That's what I want my motion to say So if I can get the help of the city attorney to make that happen or my colleagues here, that's my intent There is a there is a difference. So Would you do you want to make this as a postpone action to postpone indefinitely? You want to make it a postpone to the next meeting? I want to make it a postpone until such time As all city councillors have had the opportunity to go before their npa's to discuss the issue and gather information So a specific action item that happens So that does not put a particular time you're saying such time as which could mean any time Chancellor mason point of order point of yes I believe what he's asking is if we knew like I know my npa meets this thursday So fine I can go until next meeting, but I don't know everyone else's npa I believe what he's asking is whatever that date is a week out two weeks out three weeks out It would be a motion to postpone to the that date certain which is that meeting that follows the last npa meeting Councillor paul thank you, um I just wanted to add the board said ward six does not meet in Ward six meets at the beginning of the month and does not meet in january Because it tends to be the day or two after new years So the next npa meeting in ward six is not until february Okay, so we have a we have a motion on the table to postpone action on this Until people have had a chance to talk to their npa's City attorney blackwood. Do you have anything for us yet? I can tell you that the motion to postpone is debatable and it And it appears to me that There are numerous Citations in here indicating that while they are two different motions they Can equally apply in this situation. I think either Motion can be made it does appear that the motion to table is not debatable and does require two-thirds So we have a motion to postpone so it is debatable. So and and that does or does not require two-thirds That does not appear to require does not require two-thirds Okay, so let's open up the debate on Specifically, we're talking about whether you support the motion to postpone. So let's keep the comments to that specifically Councillor busher and then council heart now So I would be supportive of this however I would have preferred to have it be To send this to the all wards and steering committee because that I think would get The job done in a more complete manner And so I'm I think that Councillor pine mentioned Or someone else mentioned that there was some sensitivity Because we're talking about needs for the npa's and funding And so I would hate to see they may deadline slip away and with each month We get further We we don't address the issues that we know we have that our npa's face. So At this juncture, I don't want to just have this Go on till march or april. I think that's unnecessary. So i'm not going to be supporting the motion Thank you. Councillor busher. Councillor heart and then council roof. Um, I don't support the motion I was just here sitting here thinking that it's like coaching my little league team Right where the where the kids are great and the parents are the ones that are the problem And I think this is the problem here like the mpa's are great and the councilors are the problem and they can't get out of their own way And they can't put their eagles aside And it's it's unbelievable to me when I look around this table and see the years That are here that you don't have a good enough relationship with your mpa's or you haven't discussed That funding is an issue with them. I find that hard to believe That participation is down, right? We need to Put energy into these mpa's. I mean, I've seen them all I've been to them all I mean, this is just simply You know at first it was oh, we can't step on Laura hails toes, right? We're offending her I saw those twitters and emails and all of a sudden, you know, and now then it was funding Like, you know the budget process and I mean It might as well just go for sort of three in a row here and come up with something else at this point To find our excuse to table this or to delay it or to vote it down I mean, I'd rather have you just be honest with us And just say look we want to come from our side of the table over there and and it was I Our dear first and I mean, I just it's beyond me that we're sitting here at 10 after 11 Discussing whether we want to make a difference in our mpa's. It really is it's baffling to me So I don't support the motion Thank you. Councillor Hartnett. Councillor roof. I agree people in home must be going what the hell is going on Um, and I you know, I don't know if the intent, you know, we we're getting into intent a few years a few times here Uh, councillor dean. I think the intent here is looking at the situation going holy shit We can't sorry what we we can't let let's yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. I retract that Oh my goodness, I apologize. Oh my goodness, you know The intent is clear here. We want to support our mpa's and now we're talking about sides of tables. It's it's a lot going on Um, I'll support the motion getting more feedback from mpa should be a relatively simple Simple thing, uh, you know, we're getting very elevated here. Maybe it's the hour, but uh, I don't think we need to get in into this Either way that's that maybe that I'm not going to ask to call the question But let's act here. I think the I don't think that there was any malicious intent On this motion. We're just trying to find a way through here. Um, that's all my goodness Thank you council roof Call the question the quite motion to call the question has been made. This requires a two-thirds vote Uh, all those in favor of calling the question I know I believe too. I believe it's two-thirds to call the question. It's two-thirds Yeah, call the question has been called All those in favor of calling the question, please raise your hands The question has been called And we will now have the vote, uh, and please raise your hands if you support the motion to postpone action Until as councillor dean suggested until councillors have had a chance to talk to their npa's all those in favor of that motion Please raise your hands Vote is six all those opposed Six to six that motion fails. We are back to the Regular motion the the motion that's on the table with the resolution Um, do we need further discussion call the question? Councillor hartnett, I had my hand up before the the the motion to call the question was yelled. So Councillor dean, thank you I you know, I I just like to respond to Certain city councillors who say that this is somehow Have indicted effort to somehow take this the credit for this initiative away from them That's not what this is I think that this offers every opportunity for the councillors who've led this this initiative to move forward To come to us with something that's really thought through and something that we can all support We have no desire to take, you know, I personally I do wanted to check in with my npa, but I have no These counter jeng and and and councillor hartnett deserve the credit for picking this up They should lead it. I just want to see a more thoughtful and and Informed process bring it to us with better language. That's that that's really thought through It's a great. It's a great motivation. Let's get it right Thank you. Thank you councillor dean councillor jeng All right, and then I hope that we are ready to vote councillor jeng Goal to question. I think you're calling the question. Yes councillor jeng is calling the question So again, two-thirds vote all those in favor call in question. Please raise your hands Any opposed that passes unanimously the question is called Please raise your hands if you support the resolution now those that opposed The resolution fails by a vote of six to six Motion to adjourn moved by council roof seconded by Councilor shannon all those in favor of adjourning, please say aye. All right, as opposed we are adjourned. Thank you