 Okay. All right. Yep. We had a good break. Let's resume from where we left off. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So we went through chapter 19, which is talking about the sacraments of the church. We looked at two different sacraments, water baptism and the Lord's table. Yeah. One point that I want to make regarding the requirements of it, and it's at the bottom of page 125 in your PDFs. It's towards the end just before reflection. It says, there is no explicit instruction in the scripture that you must be water baptized before partaking of the Lord's table. Okay. This is an important point because we as the pastoral team, we constantly receive emails about this. One of the things about this thing is that I know this person does not water baptized, but they were partaking of the communion. Why are you allowing? Some questions are polite. Some emails are polite. Some emails are not very polite. So our response is this point. Is that nowhere in the scripture it says that you have to be water baptized to partake of the Lord's table. And so this is what we follow at All People's Church. We keep participation of the Lord's table. It's open to all born again believers. Now we make that announcement. We say, okay, if you believe Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you are welcome to partake of the Lord's table. It's as simple as that. So there are churches that says, I mean, it's that that follows that only if you're water baptized, you have to partake of it. And there are more churches that would say that if you're, it's not enough that if you're water baptized, only if you're the member of this church, you can partake of the Lord's table. So there are all these practices that's being followed by different churches, but at All People's Church, this is what we follow. As long as you've confessed to the amount and believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord, you're welcome to partake of the Lord's table. Okay. Now another important point in that same page in page 125 on top, it says, the elements of bread and grape juice are symbolic. That means we do not believe in transmutation. So what's that crazy word? That means we don't take it literally. Okay, so that's why people in John chapter six were offended. They were like, okay, what are you talking about transmutation here? It's like literal thing, but it's symbolic of what it represents, right? It's the elements that I just prayed over and blessed over and we partake of it as commanded. Okay. So those are the two points that I just wanted to conclude with. Let's move on to chapter 20. Church deception and resolving conflicts. Resolving conflicts. Who likes conflicts? Do you like to resolve conflicts or to start one conflict? I want to start one conflict with you. Right, Matthew 18, 15 to 22. Let's go through that scriptures. Moreover, if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you and you have gained your brother. If he hears you, that means if he listens to you, that means you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more that by the mouth or two or three witnesses, every word may be established. And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like the heathen and the tax collector. Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you lose on earth will be lost in heaven. Again, I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by my father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, I am there in the midst of them. And then Peter came to him and said, Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me? And I forgive him up to seven times. Jesus said to him, I do not say to you up to seven times, but to seventy times seven. Okay, start multiplying now. Okay, seventy times seven. Conflicts is a very real thing in ministry. I'm sure you all have had conflicts within this room itself. Okay, Sri Radha. Oh, please. Okay, it's a very real thing. And especially if anywhere people are involved and let's just talk about the church itself, there will be conflicts. And within the church, let's say there are teams. You know, let's say worship team. There will be conflicts between individuals, members, right? We can't help it. We cannot avoid it, right? Because anywhere people are involved, there will be conflicts, right? So as pastor or leader, people will come to you with problems among themselves. So one of the ways that how would you resolve, what is your first step towards how would you resolve a conflict? Two people come to you. Anyone? You hear both the sides of the story, okay? That's what, by hearing both the sides of the story. Okay. Okay, you need to ask them that if they really want to resolve the conflict or continue as enemies. Just leave it. Okay. Right, I think, I mean, the initial response, sure, they come together. They meet with us as a pastor or as a leader, with you as a pastor or as a leader. And your immediate response is, okay, how can I help both the individuals to forgive and reconcile? That's what we strive for, isn't it? Some of the most, now, few of the most dangerous people I have met are those ones with bitterness, who have a bitterness, bitter people. I'm not kidding. And you're looking at one. Yeah, it's true. One of the persons that I just mentioned is definitely me, who've lived with how about bitterness for a long time. So once you, it's like an infection, like a disease, it starts to spread. It captures one place in your heart and it just spreads, like, you know, it just spreads. What happens is the way you look life after that will change. The perspective, everything you look at, you understand of any individual will be through the lens of bitterness. And it's, and I'm telling this, sharing this with you with experience, right? Because I've been there and I know how much it's affected my life. Not just my life, but people around me. I mean, it's the source, right there. Firstly, it affects you, it changes you. And then you come to a point where you cannot identify yourself. Like, you know, if there's enough grace, you'll say, okay, is this really me looking at the mirror? Because you'll know, okay, I was not like this, right? And then you can, again, like James says, it's like a person who looks into the mirror and walks back. So you have an opportunity to change that you want to pursue continuing that, or you want to change, right? So, yeah, and I'm saying this because I know that and the person who is bitter, the person is always right. And the person is always right. So it can be turned over back to justify their case. You know what I'm saying, right? So this Matthew verse, it started out like this. If your brother hears you. Okay, let's just, so, yeah. It's fine now. Okay. Okay, so conflicts in, so we're leading worship ministry, right? So, and this is one individual that I had to deal with who would take offense for everything against anyone in the team, right? It's almost like that person always felt that everybody who came to church that Sunday morning woke up just to come and criticize this person. You get what I'm saying? So have you been around any individuals where you feel like, okay, I have to, it's like walking around broken glasses, right? So you are careful, like, and not I'm saying it's an uncomfortable careful, right? It's like, okay, anything I do or say might just set this time bomb off kind of a thing, right? It's and now, see, people are going to be people and what I had to tell this person is this. And I said, you have to believe and know that nobody is waking up that morning, coming up to you just to be rude to you. Yeah, and that because and that I think helped that person in a way that started changing the perspective. And the person said is like, yeah, okay, you know, I understand because sometimes it can be frustrating, especially let's say for example in the music band in a music team that you want everybody to have a similar chemistry. Like if I'm the worship leader, I want everybody in my team to understand me and follow me well, like understand my cues. If I left my guitar, stop the song, you should know when to pull the song what to play when to play, etc, etc. If someone does not do something like that, I will tell them to do that. But then I don't let it just grow into some kind of a bitterness thing. They're like, okay, this prince is not stopping or not playing the guitar properly, simply because he does not like me. You see the difference. Okay, this person is deliberately playing wrong chords because he doesn't like me and he wants to make me look bad. You see my understanding and how just bitterness can change everything, right? From what can be as a skill developmental opportunity, it's become very personal now. So it's like the classic, hey, it's not personal, it's professional. So in all things, we need to believe in offence. This is a book, it's called The Bait of Satan by John Bibby. And you should read that book if you can also please read the ABC publication called No Offence, Offences, Don't Take Them. Yeah, because that's like the seed of bitterness, taking offended. Sure, I mean, again, people, we can't live in denial. You get offended, you get upset, how do you respond to that matters? How do you respond to that matters, right? I mean, trust me, as pastors and leaders, the amount of emails that we get, you know, above, it's amazing. But it's very easy to be upset and that upset leading to offence and that offence leading to hatred towards that individual. It's very easy. And I'm saying that, right? And this is very important, guys, ministers, leaders, pastors, future leaders, whatever. It's very important to guard your heart. The Bible says guard your heart, isn't it? You know, guard, it's like it's a language used there of a security thing. Who do you guard? Something that is weak. We guard our children, isn't it? You're in a dangerous zone, you stand in front of them so that they say, if someone is playing football, you stand in front of them, you put them back so the ball doesn't hit them. Yes or no? What are you doing? You're guarding, isn't it? And the Bible says guard your heart with such cautiousness. Again, the Gospel says with every evil thing comes from the heart, everything. Everything comes from the heart, right? And it's the same heart Jesus wants. We're the king of my heart. You know, we sing all that songs very nicely. But how's, search me and know me and see if there's any wicked ways in me, right? It's very easy for us to get offended. But then immediately you ask for his grace to deal with that matter and your surrender and you kind of try and resolve the conflict. Or even anyone who comes to you, I think you push them, encourage them to work towards forgiveness and reconciliation because the opposite of forgiveness is unforgiveness and forgiveness leads to bitterness and bitterness eventually leads to the destruction of yourself. That's why you ask them to embrace forgiveness and reconciliation, not because it's just a nice idea, right? Are you all with me, right? Okay, so I'm not going to give you a certain examples or just talk about a couple of points. Okay, if this conflict comes, react like this because, again, in ministry, you will come across different kinds of conflicts, various kinds of problems, et cetera, et cetera, right? And so there's some guidance here. It says, if possible or necessary, have a team of one or more leaders or a team of people qualified. That means if a situation is getting out of hand, if a situation is getting escalated, if possible, a leader should have a team or elders just as a witness and be able to guide. In the multitudes of counsel, there's wisdom, the Bible says, right? Proverbs. So make it clear that all decisions will be made without any partiality. That's very important, again. Okay, so it is possible that, I mean, any two individuals might feel that a leadership is biased towards a certain individual for various reasons. So at the very start of, you guys understand what partiality is? Favouring one person or one side, regardless of what the other story is. Yes? And so, again, your character and integrity as a leader will be tested on that. Okay, standards are standards, moral standards. Right is right, wrong is wrong, et cetera, et cetera. So it's very important that you make that very clear to the person that you're dealing with is that you are not partial. Right? And finally, this is very important, put everything down in writing. Okay? Put everything down in writing. So we are in person here. Okay, we've just resolved a conflict. She's helped, Ravali has helped resolve a conflict between me and Anand. And we shook our hands and all of that. But then you go back and, you know, you respond with an email saying, okay, we glad we did this, you know, with some exhortation thing. Okay, this is what it is. It's very important, right? It's a sense of professionalism as well. Right? Again, in ministry, this is a problem with the church in India is that we, there's no balance. If you think we, if you say that we are in ministry, nothing has to be organized because it's ministry, you know, right? One of the things that actually what we follow in APC is, so let's say I'm planning for a worship team retreat. I would have verbally spoken with Pastor Ashish saying that, Pastor, this is the venue. This is how much it's going to cost. And Pastor Ashish will say, okay, Roshan, go ahead. Right? He's given a verbal approval, but that is not enough for the accounts team. So I have to go back to my computer, draft an email saying, okay, this is the estimated expenses for the travel, bus, accommodation, venue, portal transport, all of that stationary copy, photocopy expenses, all of that and say, okay, estimated expense might be 50,000 rupees. And then send it to the account's teams copying Pastor Ashish, because he's my boss. And, you know, and so then approval comes. So everything is in writing. That's the point. Right? It's not just, okay, let's shake our hands and go ahead. Are you all with me? Right? So resolving conflicts and bringing correction as I think is another important thing. You have to correct individuals when you see that they need to be corrected. If you are a leader and you say, okay, my character is, I don't like correcting people. You can't be a leader. You cannot be a leader. That's one thing. So one of the traits of the leader is that you have to correct people. You're correcting in love and all of that is there. Right? But you have to bring about correction. It's up to the other person if they want to be corrected. Are you with me? If they are spiritually mature, they are open to be corrected. Isn't it? Like, I mean, every great athlete has a coach. Why? A coach corrects them. If Roger Federer says, okay, why do you, I know how to, you know, hit a forehand smash. You don't have to teach me. That means he wouldn't be the greatest player. Are you with me? Right? You're growing as a champion. Right? So that's one thing. As a leader, you cannot ignore correcting people. If something is wrong, you have to correct. You know, you address that mistake. Second thing, what you, most of the time is why leaders don't correct people is they think, oh, if I correct them, they will feel bad. I'm sparing them of the embarrassment. Are you with me? You will be in the situation if you've not already been in that situation. Not my words. You will say, okay, let me not correct them because I'm correct. That person might leave the team. That person might leave the church. That person might leave the country also and go types. Okay. You are thinking as a leader that you are sparing that person. But in all actuality, you are sparing yourself and that's a very selfish thing. So when you don't correct an individual, you are being very selfish. Did you know that? Because you want to continue to look good in that person's eye. Because your fear is if you correct that person and you think, okay, that person is going to start looking at me very differently. Yeah. But a person who appreciates healthy relationship, if a person actually values you will receive that correction and know that your intention is behind it. Are you with me? So anytime one more thing is another very important part, a mark of a leader is that if you're correcting people, you have to make it very clear in a way, sometimes you can't say it in a way that you, the other person that you're correcting needs to know that you are for them. Right? You are correcting them for their well-being. You are not, they are not doing any favor. Right? They need to know that you're doing whatever you're doing for their well-being, for their good. It's like literally like a parent and a child's relationship. Isn't it? My son likes to stand behind me and just watch me shave. Are you with me? And if given a chance, he would imitate me using that razor. But what is a blessing for me now can be a cause for him because he doesn't know how to handle the razor blade. Isn't it? And so it is my duty to correct and say, okay, it's not safe. Don't touch it. Give what I'm saying. Right? If I just seem playing with the razor thing and don't care, that means I really means I don't care about, okay, go cut yourself. Go fall. I don't care. Are you following? Right? So there's a lot of beauty in relationships. You know, there's a lot of beauty in valuing people in a sense that you must be willing to see the the gold through all the ugliness. You have to be ready to walk through that. And it's not just we're talking about, you know, Exodus. I think Exodus, the Deutronomy, it says, Moses sat on all day from morning of the rising of the center in the evening and sat through and listened to all the people's problems. My God. Boy, please God for counselors. So please go for professional help. Counseling is hard. But anyways, right? Please go through the chapter. There's a lot of points there about correcting people and all the different points that addresses that in this chapter, especially, right? Now you will also receive emails. What will happen is that now say I'm the pastor of a church and say any one of you have been a major leader and have been part of the controversial news. Okay. So something you might, I must have done, must have irritated some person in another part of the world. And they will send an email to me saying, why, because I would have stood by that person, you know, given that person a platform, et cetera, et cetera. The person will say, how can you stand with that person when that person has fallen and, you know, do all these things, et cetera, et cetera. Now, are you guys, this is very important. Are you with me, right? So I have a personal relationship with Prince. I have walked with him. I know who he is, et cetera. Right. I know how he treats people. And so if I receive an email, say for some controversial thing unnecessarily, condemning not just him, but also me saying how can you agree and walk with a person and have a relationship with a person like Prince? How do you stand? It's also very important, right? And a scenario like this has happened in the real world, and I want to read an email response of one person who responded to a person who wrote an email in a similar scenario, condemning an individual that they did. And so this person wrote, this person has a person who's standing with a person who's fallen, who's been accused, wrote saying, have you spent time with so-and-so? For example, I'm going to use Prince's name. So have you spent time with XYZ? Do you know him? Have you watched him with his wife? Have you seen him treat his kids? Have you spent any time with his staff? Have you been to his ministry? Has he been to yours? Have you laid hands on him and prayed? Has he laid hands on you and prayed? Have you grieved over tragedy together? Have you celebrated victory together? Has he sought your counsel? Has he traveled great distance just to be with you for advice? Have you ever received his counsel? Have you ever been in a room when God shows up on him and used him in a stunning way? Have you seen him operate in a world of knowledge and in the prophetic? Have you benefited from his gift in ministry? Has he benefited from your gift in ministry? Has he ever honored you for who you are in God? Has he partnered with you as a friend? Have you sought God with him? Have you ever worshipped the Lord with him? I didn't think so. I have. He is my friend and more importantly, God calls him friend. And if you and I were friends at that level and people hated you and turned against you, started web pages to turn down your ministry, criticized you to your friends' magazines and in the radio, I'd still be your friend. It's friends, wisdom, spiritual maturity, grace, so many things in that email. Yeah, it is. And so all of this will happen in ministry. And in every area at home, we need his wisdom, isn't it? Yeah. So when somebody came up with an accusation or an allegation against the person, you know, so yeah, this response is right. Absolutely. But what would we are on our part? Do we also check with that person? Right. Like if what is exactly happened, if they have done something that needs to be addressed. Absolutely. That needs to be corrected. Absolutely. Yeah. Has to be corrected. Has to be addressed. Anything in nature, if it's doctrinal, theological and based character, integrity, et cetera, anything that you see. And that's a mark of a true friend, isn't it? See, what is the difference between conviction and condemnation? Different, Francis? Yeah, so my question is very simple though, is what is the difference between conviction and condemnation, Francis? I mean, there is a factor of love that will be there in conviction when you're talking and that misses when you're condemning the others. Correct. True. So one of the scenarios that comes to my mind is Prophet Nathan and David, right? Prophet Nathan and David, that is after he has sinned against with Bathsheba, you know, ordered the murder of the husband Uraya, what's his name? Uraya, right? Yeah. So here's the thing, long story short, condemnation points to your identity. It hurts, it touches your identity. It condemns you versus the conviction will address the event that has happened. Are you with me? So Nathan didn't go and say that, okay, you are so-and-so, you are so-and-so. He was addressing the event that happened. That leads to conviction, isn't it? And so again, it's very important when you're correcting people, you don't condemn them, right? You don't touch their identity as leaders, right? You talk about the event. This happened, right? It's a big thing in the world of identity. So once we understand that as individuals and as leaders, it will change our lives. Why I say that again is, so for example, for the longest time, just because I failed in my 12th standard, I believe that I was a failure. What helped me in counseling was I was made to understand that my failure in 12th standard in mathematics is not who I am, but that's an event that happened. So once you realize that's just an event, then there's more things to life, you'll come out of it. You get what I'm saying? Okay, so that's how you kind of correct is you address it. Okay, so this is a wonderful chapter that I would like you for all to go through. Yeah, I mean, I think with that, we kind of conclude this course. The meat of this course is section one and section two. Section one is all about the origins, God's idea for the church, right? It all starts with Matthew 16, I think, where who do you say I am? Jesus asking that question. And if you remember that first class, we spoke about the geographical significance of where Jesus asks that question, right? And then from there on, we go just deeper into God's idea and we saw 10 different perspectives, facets of the church, the way that he looks at. And then everything else, it's a little practical. And as I mentioned, section four and section five will be covered in the other courses next year in church and ministry administration and urban church planting even. Yeah. Okay, so thank you for joining this course. I hope that this has been helpful. And I can just go through, we've covered most of the content in the book, The House of God. Go through the remainder of the chapters in your assessments, final assessments. I'm also talking to those who will be joining, doing the e-learning courses. Your assessment will be an open book quiz, so to speak. Yeah, it's an open book quiz, so I think complicated. I would have asked questions outside of other chapters as well from the book. So it's an open book quiz. Okay, so it's all that challenging. Okay, but I hope it's been helpful. I hope you've learned something from this course. Thank you for being patient. Thank you for joining in. God bless you. I will see you around. Take care. Thank you.