 we need to be more creative and critical about how we're currently living and asking better questions of how do we change it. We need to be capturing people's minds and hearts in a whole different, you know, in so many different ways, whether it is through movies, whether it is through, you know, artworks, we need to be drawing in the science, the complexity of what the science is telling us, but then translating that into something that gets people at their heart to look at a beautiful artwork or a photograph of a forest and go, wow, like, that is worth saving. That is, you know, wondrous, that is magical. That is putting oxygen into the atmosphere and that is capturing carbon that we so mistakenly put up there, but we know how it's related now and we know what we can do about it. Anika Molesworth is my guest on this episode of Inside Ideas, brought to you by 1.5 Media and Innovators Magazine. It was the decade-long millennial drought on Anika's farm that spurred her interest in climate change and to ask, how are we going to feed a rapidly growing global population well in a climate challenge world? With a passion for rural communities and health ecosystems, she is committed to help create sustainable and vibrant farming landscapes now and for the future. Anika is a recognized thought leader of agro-ecological systems resilience. She has a PhD in agriculture science, is an engaging communicator and has passion for international farming development. Anika's dedication to raising awareness of climate change impacts on farms and most importantly, what action can be taken to reduce emissions and adapt to changing conditions has gained her widespread notability. Her career has taken her around the world to every continent, including Antarctica, meeting with global leaders and royalties. She is a sought after keynote speaker and educator who brings heartfelt warmth, authenticity and optimism to complex global challenges. Anika founded a climate-wise agriculture in 2014 and has a knowledge sharing platform for climate change as it relates to food systems around the world. She also helped establish farmers for climate action, which is a national network of over 5,000 Australian farmers tackling climate change. After being named in the 2015 Young Farmers of the Year, Anika went on to be awarded the 2017 Young Australian of the year NSW Finalists and 2017 NSW Young Achiever Award for Environment and Sustainability. In 2018, she was awarded the Green Globe Awards Young Sustainability Champion, the NSW Act Regional Achievement and Community Award for Agriculture Innovation and the 350.org Heroes of Low Carbon Economy Youth Champion. In 2019, she was recognized as a future shaper by InStyle and Audi and a woman of influence by the Australian Financial Review. Anika, welcome to the show. That is such a wonderful biography and you have done so many wonderful things and we're honored to have you here on the show today. I'm honored. Thank you so much for having me, Mark. I know this is going to be a great conversation. It will. Just for our listeners, I want to catch them up to speed. We first met in 2016 in Manila in the Philippines at an Al Gore Climate Reality training there for the people of the Philippines and from around the world who could come to that region for a training and have kind of kept in touch a little bit over the years and you've been real busy. I've been real busy and it's been a wild ride and a journey since that point in time for both of us. A lot of things going on around climate and the environment and the other thing is you're one of the wonderful contributors in my book, Menu B, that comes out the end of November. We just launched the website menu B.Earth on World Food Day, the United Nations Food Day and you're listed nicely on there as well, representing not only Australia but farmers around the world and also all the other wonderful things you do and so I'm very fortunate to know you, to have gotten to meet you and to kind of stayed in touch and I'm happy to have you on the show today. I want to start out first and foremost to have you recognize the Indigenous people of Australia and kind of your work and where you're coming from today. I'm in Hamburg, Germany and then I have a question of kind of how you've weathered things in this crazy time and I'll set that up once you've done your nice welcome and thanking the Indigenous people. Thank you Mark. Yes, so I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the lands where I live and work, which is Willakali land and the Willakali people are the traditional custodians out here. I live in far western New South Wales of Australia which is a very beautiful part of the country. It's a semi-arid environment so a red sandy soils and sapphire blue skies. Not many people, a lot of kangaroos and it's where I call home. That's beautiful and thank you for that. So having been a climate leader, having since 2000 through your family kind of been thrust into farming life and animal agriculture, also in a harsh conditions or very unique conditions of Australia and then taking this journey of sustainable agriculture and looking at different ways and how the climate affects agriculture and how agriculture affects the climate and your journey in many different areas and ways. How have you weathered this crazy pandemic and the reason I give it that setup is because I'm hoping that some of that knowledge or that experience is giving you some resilience or some help to weather the pandemic better or maybe some lights have gone on that you said, wow, this is and I'd like to hear that journey or how you've been through this time. Yes, well I guess the pandemic itself hasn't affected me personally too much in that I live in a very remote location in Australia or my family's farm, so very far away from people. So I guess I've been social isolating for quite a while now and I've been using online communication platforms for quite a while now to share my message and my story and it's actually probably been quite beneficial for my communication to actually be able to join a lot of online events now that were being run in person and I couldn't actually get to them but now they've moved online I've suddenly been able to zoom in or skype in and share my story and I think this whole transformation of the world and all of us coming online has connected people across the globes, across industries and really asked us to work together to think differently, to work differently, to respect science and the evidence what it's telling us and to do things differently than we have in the past and I think you know with that disruption and it has been you know a terrible disruption and there has been so much heartbreak and grief for so many people but with these types of disruption there's also opportunity to change things and hopefully change things for the better and I hope we can see that in the climate change sphere and as you set up that question with the introduction of my start in agriculture so my family purchased our farm in the year 2000 and I was 12 years old and you know absolutely fell in love with this place you know these endless horizons, the wildlife knowing that I had the privilege of growing food with my family that was going to feed people in our community and you know people far away but as you said there the year 2000 in Australia was the start of a decade-long millennium drought and so it was a very steep learning curve for us our introduction to agriculture was 10 years of little to no rainfall and so we had come to this new landscape a very harsh challenging arid zone landscape fallen in love with it had these grand ideas of what we were going to do as a family growing food out here and then had that challenged immediately you know we had to think on our feet you know learn about the soils the vegetation the wildlife and deal with this this drought that was you know its grip was tightening for 10 years so it was a very important learning experience in my journey because that's when I started to research more about climate change and the increased frequency and intensity of drought conditions and you know as someone who wanted to take on the family's farm one day how was I going to best prepare myself as the next generation of food producer to um to deal with these conditions that were becoming increasingly challenging thank you for sharing that with us um there's a couple things that that I know that I also want hoping that you can kind of bring out if it's not if it's not too personal for our listeners so one you you finished your PhD during this time you started a book and in March if I remember you were supposed to get married wasn't that wasn't that the begin beginning uh the how did all of that go during this time and uh was it different than before did it did it kind of that transition and one one one more thing the beginning of this year you know the decade of action 2020 the decade of action was really for me and a lot of people around the world a lot of action and momentum around climate change around action towards climate action and things that were going on but what a lot of people forget is I tell you it was burning during the beginning of this year and so I'd like to know how that was how it affected you if you were further away if you felt the ripple effects and things like that so there's a lot of good bad and ugly this year but uh I hear a lot of positive as well from you and I'd like to let our listeners know a little bit about that as well yeah it was um some crazy months at the end of last year and the start of this year so I went to Antarctica in November last year and I flew out of Australia and the bushfires were just starting and you know everyone thought oh gosh like it's early it's springtime and bushfires have already started in Australia so that was concerning then I went to Antarctica and I was completely disconnected you know no phone no internet and in December when I landed back on shore in South America and realized you know what was happening in Australia and I flew home and oh gosh the devastation and you know every hour the update on the news of these bushfires raging of homes being lost of animals being you know burnt alive it was just horrific um you know we we were constantly looking at the maps of Australia and just you know the red this this spreading redness on the map you know indicating where the fire zones were and you know where people should be evacuating from or it was too late you know you had to bunker down and just try and survive it it was absolutely horrifying even over um New Year's Eve the images of you know hundreds thousands of people lying on the shorelines of the beaches and the sky is just you know blackened with this horrific smoke um and I got to a point where you know you wanted to turn off the news and just not look at the news people because it was just so overwhelming and I'm you know living in a very remote part of the country far away from the forest bushfire wasn't a threat to me or my family but we were being smothered with smoke and that was smoke traveling thousands of kilometers so you know my heart was going out for people who were actually in amongst um you know those forests who were actually there on the front lines uh in January I submitted my PhD thesis and that had been um quite a long four and a half years for me um and yes in March I was supposed to get married and so there was you know wedding planning going on and March was when COVID started to get very serious here in Australia and I think I was in a state of denial for a few weeks thinking oh you know by by next week COVID will be done it'll be fine we'll be back to normal no worries about the wedding anyway it got progressively more serious as as we all know um and yeah every you know 12 hours you're looking at the news update of what um you know new restrictions had come into place um so I think it was yes about three days out from the wedding that I had to call all the suppliers and all the guests and council that you know in the scheme of things that's that's nothing um and so yes we we bunkered down here on the farm at Broken Hill and this is where I've been for the last few months and readjusting or adjusting like everyone has across the world working out how I can still continue to speak about these issues which I'm terribly passionate about how do we create a sustainable food system how do we still talk about the urgency of climate change while not detracting from the seriousness of COVID but how do we keep these conversations going and the pressure on that we still need to be working on these big challenges these other crises that the world world is facing thank you so much for for giving me that and my listeners that kind of update so I mean there's the spectrum from one end to the other that you've experienced but I really hear a lot of positive things and and you're obviously been very busy during this time not only with your book and other other things around farming and your activism and what you're doing so I really appreciate that you you really focus a lot on Australia and kind of really staying indigenous and staying local and trying to fix the climate and your situation and then spread out from from there even though you speak around the world that that's really your focus is what I see if that's correct but my my first question is do you feel like you're a global citizen and how would you feel about a future without nations borders walls divisions of humanity and how does that maybe tie into your lifestyle what you do around farming what you do around agriculture and your your own thoughts and visions of of what a real different world in the future is especially towards how we see the climate and how we interact with that because some of the things you you've mentioned touched upon not only the fires but what you talk about a climate climate is a global citizen air water agriculture species they're really global citizens you're you're landlocked I mean Australia but still the resources and things are global the food travels globally things like that so I'd like to get your thoughts and feelings on that absolutely as you say I mean it's it's a global climate system that we are disrupting and that's having global implications I guess one thing that COVID has sort of encouraged is you know people jumping online and having conversations of you know how do we fix challenges not only the COVID challenge but um other challenges and it's actually been quite remarkable the last few months that I've been able to connect with so many farming groups you know Pakistani farmers Argentine farmers farmers in Nigeria in all around the world and it's been incredible because even though we work in different agricultural sectors you know producing different types of food we live in different climates different social settings there are definite common threads of how climate change is impacting farmers what higher temperatures and reduced rainfalls actually mean to our productive capabilities and there is a first of knowledge um you know wanting to learn more to share understanding within the farming community and I think that's something incredible and it's a reason why I love working in the agricultural sector so much and with farmers because they do seem so open to having conversation and I think it's because farmers you know they have their eyes on the horizon they're always looking at well um you know how do we keep enough water for next season or how do we maintain enough uh ground cup of vegetation to fatten the cattle for assailable weight how do we pass on a farm business to the next generation you know in in 2030 years time so I do find farmers are quite forward thinking often and because they live and work so closely with the natural world of course they're some of the first to feel the true impacts of climate change and the foundation of any farm business as you know it's it's the soil it's the water it's the biodiversity and if we don't have a healthy ecosystem if we don't have a healthy foundation then we cannot have the privilege of producing food so it's all very much intertwined interrelated and I do think you know by fragmenting parts of the system and dealing with a challenge over here and trying to fix it with this you know siloed mentality it's never going to work one's never going to be effective one's always going to be wasting precious resources like labor and finance but I'm looking at it with a systems perspective actually understanding how all these you know challenges are interlinked that's you know by improving education does lift people out of poverty which means they don't exploit um you know forest resources things like that just like seeing how it's all connected helps us to be much more impactful in dealing with challenges like climate change and you know the topic of global food security that's beautiful and um I really thank you for that do you um you're really saying you do feel like you're a global citizen as well absolutely absolutely and I mean I've been very privileged privileged that I've been able to travel um and meet people face to face but even this year in you know these COVID times these lockdown times it's been wonderful to travel from my computer screen and meet farmers all around the world to share stories to share you know our fears our worries of what you know water scarcity means of what you know new pests and diseases that we're experiencing but also to share ideas of like what we can change both at a farm scale level at a community level and at a national level and then I think those ripples actually you know they move out and form the waves of change which we then ultimately see at a global scale. Fabius um as you know I think we spoke about this and Manila come from six generations of Germany's largest organic farmers and hydroponic farmers um using aquaculture um I want to get a little bit personal uh with you and ask you some questions on the journey that you're still on if it's okay and if it's not just say no let's move on to the next one um because I really tie my personal life uh and pretty much everyone else is to the earth you know you see the map behind me and and uh that we're really integrated into the biome of our earth and and uh what we do and and very locally where we're at and with indigenous thinking indigenous wisdoms and also the indigenous um character and uh biome of local regions you live in a very arid area red red soils and um you know different things that most of us can't even imagine um so I I don't think there's one solution that fits all especially for where you're at have you already transitioned and taken over the farm or your or is your family uh currently you I know you have some brothers is your family currently still still doing that are you all doing it together and are is your family also on this climate awareness and journey I've seen them in some pictures and I'm sure they're very supportive but tell us how how that has been you know not only when you purchase the that your family purchased that farm in 2000 but how that journey has been and have you changed um what the land was used for originally to maybe something more regenerative or what kind of approaches and journey has that been for you guys hmm it's been a very interesting journey that's for sure so I live here with my parents my brother and my fiance um it's 10 000 acres and we've had it for 20 years now um and yes when we first purchased we had the drought time so we rested the land then after you know rainy seasons and some good conditions we were able to stock uh again so we purchased an African breed of sheep and the African breed of sheeps the Dorpas and Damaris um are quite hardy you know they're quite drought tolerant well suited to arid zones simply arid zone environments uh there are also um their feral goats rangeland goats that walk around this part of Australia and when they walk onto your property you can catch and sell them and the prices go up and down of course depending on um uh yeah once of people for goat meat but at the moment they you know are about the same price as a sheep so it's quite a profitable business to catch the wild feral goats uh we've been in drought now again for about five years so in that um 20 year we know we've had the property first 10 years were drought we had about five good years now we've had five years of drought again so we're um very used to the the struggles the stresses of dry times um we've become very accustomed to the dust storms that sweep across this part of the country and turn day to night and we've really had to ask ourselves as we've learned more about climate change as we've looked at the projections of what the science is actually telling us for this region what is the future out here uh my dream was to take on the family farm but what does that mean now um I look at the 2050 projections of how hot it's going to be at how dry it's going to be out here and there is no way you could actually graze sheep in this area anymore because it is becoming so hot and so dry at such a rate uh you know a sheep actually have temperature thresholds as do goats as do cattle where they actually stop producing young um and we know that time is coming because the science says so and unless we're able to you know drastically change the trajectory you know those times are coming so as a sensible land manager one has to ask okay well with the best available science and knowledge um what are we going to do how can we be proactive and respond now and not wait till things get really dire and then having to be forced to respond and with limit more limited options at that point uh so in the good seasons when we did have um nice vegetation and rain um and water resources we would run about a thousand sheep out here today we have about 30 sheep left on the property so we've drastically destocked there's pretty much zero grazing pressure on our land anymore we've also been able to identify rare and threatened species here and we've established conservation reserves so my family and I have gone out with the fence posts and we've um yeah set up these conservation reserves to prevent animals from going in and eating um trees and shrubs that we know are incredibly um we're at risk of losing and of course rare and threatened species because they have low population numbers they are more vulnerable to climate change because you know a heat wave a flood or something if you lose um too much of that population it will not regenerate it will not come back and then it's lost forever um as you say you know there is a lot of knowledge in you know the indigenous cultures and something that I'm very passionate about is looking at native plants and animals as food sources for the future because if we bring in introduced species to anywhere um it's not as well suited and so it generally requires more inputs whether that's you know more water resources, fertilizers um whatever it is to keep that plant crop that animal um you know vibrant and producing the native plant and animal species are generally better suited to those soil conditions those local weather conditions and generally you know have better vitality um in Australia there's not very much of a good market for native plants and animals here we've become very accustomed to eating food that originates from different parts of the world and so I'm advocating for a shift in that understanding of what actually incredible native plants we have here in Australia that we could consume you know how rich they are of nutrients um can we look at ways of producing these on a larger scale so we can be stocking our supermarkets with these local foods instead of um you know these species that have come from elsewhere on the planet and require more inputs. This will be one last question as far as personal and your own your own property and from have you guys uh looked at any kind of like regenerative ranching or some maybe even larger scale or on your your 10 acre acre scale where you think okay how can we use um indigenous wisdom or indigenous plants of biodiversity that's already indigenous to this area to regenerate or or get those up with uh you know regenerative ranching practices or maybe even a little bit further some kind of geoengineering where you're where you're um maybe using an old Tesla uh wisdom where Nikola Tesla not Tesla the modern Tesla wisdom where they they they charge the the the particles in the ground that there's more dust in the air which occurs probably naturally already what you're saying you have dust bowls and you have a lot of those um during the rainy seasons the more um cloud seeds there are there's more dust that's in the air at that time during your natural rainy seasons the more water will come down the more seeds and dust and that which which has also has some form of nutrients in there that mix with maybe some regenerative permaculture some some mix of indigenous plants there might be a way to um take an arid area and turn it into kind of you know a forest or something that's you know changes the landscape a little bit as far as the the way it's green or thriving or wild species that are there have you guys looked into any of that that maybe you know you're saying yes this is what we're at we're in these drought periods we're in these and naturally they're historically probably occurring droughts just more intensive because of the Anthropocene and human made climate change and things that are kind of raising the levels but maybe that we use some of that climate change to kind of on the flip side to positively regenerate an area what most people and before I let you answer I just just kind of get people on the same line of thinking what most people don't they only see the negative effects of climate change and it's almost controversial to say there's a positive because there's really not but what happens is when we have global warming when it gets warmer there's more moisture in there so there's actually more ambient water and the reason we see supercels in these intensive hurricanes and droughts and floods and all these things has to do with that that extra mix of warming and moisture not only we see more pesticides pests and and and animals that thrive in those can those hotter conditions that eat the crops and ruin the crops but also we see that the soil is degraded and can't hold the water and that's where we get these floods and droughts but if we kind of think on the other side because now our atmosphere's warmer has more moisture in it is there a way we could use some of that as our benefit to positively capture that pull it down get it into our soils regenerate the soils and and do something positive have you looked at any anything like that specifically to your area that might be a solution or help or what have you guys kind of what's the what's the path that you guys are thinking forward for your specific situation well i guess i haven't looked too much into the geo engineering because personally i sort of see it as you know the last resort that we've you know altered an environment so much that it cannot look after itself that you know we cannot return it to you know it's normal health and functioning and so we have to we you know the geo engineering is looking at something quite radical quite different of um as you say you know seeding clouds or something like that out here in far western new south wales it is um largely what one would describe an unmodified landscape you could you know take a time capsule and appear 1 000 years ago here and it would look exactly the same so we don't do crops out here um you know it's still large open expansive of um pretty well i wouldn't say untouched landscape because obviously you are grazing livestock out here which has yet changed it to a degree but when it has been done in a in a conservative way of grazing um you know the environment is in its natural pristine condition um in terms of regenerative regenerative farming so absolutely i think all farmers are on board with the idea like how do we um increase fertility of our soils and get more carbon into our soils how do we um you know maintain the best vegetation biodiversity when we understand how it's into interlinks and how it you know what those co-benefits are for our production systems it is challenging though i mean it's easier to say be a regenerative farmer put more carbon into your soil um get better biodiversity than it is to actually achieve those things for example on my family's farm uh last summer i think we had you know three weeks over 40 degrees centigrade um you know the heat waves that we are experiencing uh last year we had 60 millimeters of rain um i mean it which is a drop yeah yeah we we have had just such extreme weather um in terms of how hot it's getting how dry it's getting and this is happening so quickly you know it is so hard for farmers to actually keep a pace to know you know how to respond quick enough if we had known that that summer last summer was going to be what it was we would have sold all our sheep you know long beforehand but you don't know i mean you're learning as it comes and because you know these are unprecedented conditions that we are experiencing now and like all around the world i mean farmers are an older generation i think the average age of an Australian farmer is about 60 years old and you know they have done what their parents did or what their grandparents did like there's a culture in farming as well so to say okay well the last five years the last 10 years the last 20 years have been something that we've you know no one has ever experienced how how does a farmer even know what to do how how do we you know develop the best genetics in our livestock or crops fast enough how do we know um how much water that we have to keep in the rivers because the inflows are going to be so much less from now and and that's why the the population is is booming is going up so we need to be producing more food or um you know educating people about food waste and eating nutrient dense foods and we have to be doing it with less and less environmental footprint we have to be asking less of the planet because it can't give us anymore we've already asked too much of it and so i'm i'm not answering your question in a very straightforward manner but i don't think one can either because it is it's so complex and you know even for myself with all good intentions of you know learning what i can about climate change of being you know most respectful to this landscape that my farm is on um as best as i can i look out the window and i'm heartbroken seeing you know the soil being blown away seeing the impact of the drought and i know that i've played a contribution in that um that is the unique position of a farmer is that we are contributing to climate change we are part of the big story on biodiversity loss on deforestation we have to own up that we are part of these really challenging times and we in agriculture have a very heavy footprint on this planet we're also very unique because we are one of the most vulnerable and exposed industries to the impacts of climate change we are feeling at first it is impacting our livelihoods it is impacting the mental health of people in our rural communities but the exciting part is that agriculture is unique because we can actually play a very leading role in the solutions of climate change we can actually draw down carbon that has been put up in the atmosphere and we can sequester it in trees in vegetation back into the soils we play a very important role in reducing methane emissions from livestock in reducing nitrous oxide emissions from fertilizers and we also have a beautiful story to share to people in the urban environment about how climate change impacts them through their food and why we need to be respectful of food systems as a whole and not waste food because it looks ugly or that that has been bruised so it's building you know that that love and respect for food and then the food systems as a whole and then you know to the to the environment so it's a complex story to tell but it's you know none is more important I believe I truly believe that you know you you hit it on the nail that it is a very complex story it's a very long story and it's a made up of systems thinking critical thinking and really getting to the root of that and to solve our problems our global grand challenges that we're having around the world we we really need that complex systems view approach where we address it in and not a siloed fashion but in a very big systems approach and and really try to work with through biomimicry through other practices with nature to kind of become part of this symbiotic earth I mean you you touch upon something during with the soils and capturing carbon and doing sequestering carbon and and healing our soils there was a fabulous movie that came out or documentary that came out during this time it was kiss the ground I don't know if you saw it as on Netflix fabulous information there that a lot of people don't know but it's been around for a long time so the Rotedale Institute has been well over 17 years if not longer on science and research around farming agriculture regenerative practices permaculture pride and tested large-scale small-scale and in that movie there's something that's really could be helpful and I hope you would you would find it especially for Australia Alan savory was a big part of that movie and he has done a lot of regeneration restoration in Africa a lot of arid areas a lot of dust bowls a lot of areas that were totally gone that today are thriving and flooring they're very flourishing they're very green and it's done with regenerative ranching it's done with animals it's done with chickens it's done with a certain type of grazing and pattern but there you just like you mentioned earlier you know in your 20 years experience with your family there are dry seasons and there's time you let the land kind of regenerate and do its thing there's there's some ways that are that are also geoengineering that we we don't understand in a positive way where we can restore and regenerate those properties with just some little tips and tricks what what most people they get they get scared about GMOs they get scared about geoengineering but we've been running the biggest geoengineering experiment since the industrial revolution a minute we've got cars and big industry and chemicals in the air and pollution that's a that's the biggest geoengineering experiment we've been running on the earth all together there's a there's a way to do it in a positive way was very beneficial and harmony with nature that's not you know chemicals and pesticides and big industry or you know these crazy things but in a way to help the earth kind of regenerate itself and so I would I would push you your family and others that you speak to and your associations you know look look towards the savoury institute Alan savoury and some of other that have had some experiences with specific land types that you're dealing with that maybe would be a good help I mean even even I'm from the United States I live in Humbert Germany but even in the United States a certain parts of California were basically desert that they turned into rough flourishing landscapes and things and now it's it's going back to drought and decertification and other issues but I believe there are practices and ways to do it in a very indigenous way and if you can tap into that indigenous wisdom of the cultures that are there that have been around or pass that information on over generations that maybe work with them closer to see how we can restore or get it back to nature and not bring in outside influences that's just my suggestion and I think there's some wonderful things that we're learning as well and that touches upon you know you're you've got these climate wise agriculture you've got youth voices leadership team and you've got farmers for climate action and so those are people now coming together for amazing things you're getting you're you're rallying I think you said something like 5000 farmers and some of them and you're really getting this collective of wisdom around the world but in Australia as well where you're shifting that perspective just because we've been doing it for generations this way and like I said I come from six generations organic farmers doesn't mean that that was the right way you know we the minute we started farming started agriculture we we began moving rocks tilling the soil cutting down trees for farming that's when we began in our world to influence our climate releasing carbon into the atmosphere messing with our soils and thinking that disrupting that that system and because of that that that's doesn't mean that it was right we can learn that there's maybe some some indigenous ways or some ways we can work with nature to get get better or the same results in a much different way and so can you tell me about these three organizations of what what you've seen what your growth is and kind of motivate us a little bit about what's going on there and how how what optimism we have to look forward to yeah sure so um the first one you mentioned climate wise agriculture that was a platform that I established um of six or so years ago because I was learning you know fascinating things in university and my readings and I wanted to share them um I want to help people in my position in my community other farmers to you know understand what the science is telling us so that's why I established climate wise agriculture the next one you mentioned was the youth voices leadership team so I'm very lucky to work with young Australian people in agriculture and living in rural communities and this program is a multi-gear mentoring program for young people to help them build the confidence the capabilities to share their stories to share their passion of why they want a future in agriculture um you know what is their vision for a healthy rural community and these young people then go into urban schools and they give lessons to primary and secondary school students and help connect the next generation to people who grow their food and told by other young people because young people teaching other young people about you know how exciting it is you know um you know the stories of riding motor bikes across the paddock and seeing the most incredible things or planting seedlings and seeing them bloom and harvesting food from them you can really get a lot of energy from these these conversation and the school kids they just ask the most fantastic questions you know they do not hold back they give you their creative ideas of what they think you know what farming of the future could look like and so it's a really exciting exchange of ideas between young people and the third group you mentioned is farmers for climate action um about five years ago a group of 30 farmers met in the blue mountains and we did so because even though we were from very different industries in very different parts of Australia we had banana growers from far north Queensland in the tropics to uh Gippsland dairy growers which is a very cool climate where they have the dairy cattle to myself who's a arid zone sheep and goat farmer we sat down and we had a conversation that we were all feeling the impacts of climate change we're all very concerned with what the science is telling us what you know the trajectory that we're heading on but we do not feel like we're being properly represented by our elected um uh members of parliament we did not feel like we were getting the best access to the science and we didn't know how to actually apply that science to you know to the paddock to the field and we also felt like the media the um the urban media wasn't telling our story properly so we said about changing all that and in the past five years we now have a membership of about 5 000 Australian farmers all different parts of the country every food and fiber you can imagine um have come together and we're not preaching one particular production philosophy we're not saying you know um one type of food or fiber is better than the others it's about all of us saying yeah we're in the same boat we are you know all passionate about looking after our communities we all love our homes and our land and we want to do the best that we possibly can and we know that that might not look the same as what the neighbour is doing or what the guy down the road is doing but if I can learn how to do it the best I possibly can with what I have available then that is a good start so we have been connecting scientists world-leading researchers with farmers we've been holding these master classes out in the food producing regions so farmers actually know what the science is saying what the projections are how they can adapt their farm business how they can reduce on farm emissions we've also been working very hard in upskilling the farmers to tell their stories better so we've been giving them communications training and connecting them with you know radio with um newspapers with editors so you know these these honest authentic stories of how climate is challenging the way we produce food what we produce where we produce it is being told but also the stories of hope of what farmers are actually doing in their paddock in response to these changing conditions of what their vision is for their region or what they would like to see change you know if there is the right investment if there is the right direction from our government it's inspiring a better vision in the the larger population and then lastly is working with the policymakers and with the industry bodies so here in Australia we have you know a grains industry we have meat and livestock industry we have cotton industry and we're working with all these different groups that represent hundreds thousands of farmers to you know have a more impactful common voice that you know we all want the best for our climate we are all dependent on the seasons on the rainfall on a stable temperature conditions we want you know the latest research so we need our government to actually put in place strategies to deal with climate change we need a roadmap of how we're going to get to net zero and beyond because if we don't have a roadmap if we don't have a strategy then there is fear in that transition and people would you know prefer to ignore that the problem is occurring but if we have a roadmap and we say you know this is what we can achieve these are the benefits that will happen for the agricultural sector when we actually get there and this is how we're going to do it and make sure there is a just transition and that no one is going to be left behind then that gives people confidence that gives them courage to change their practices and it makes them feel like they are part of something bigger and something better so Farmers for Climate Action is an incredible example of you know when a few people come together and say we need to change the status quo of what can actually happen I do encourage listeners to look up Farmers for Climate Action because it's an incredible resource it's an incredible movement we'll put all your links and your website and everything in the show notes in the description and when we post it and we'll talk about it as well so that you they can look up and find you and see what all you're you're doing in all those organizations do you believe that there is a big plan a big earth shot a climate shot or moonshot to get us to 2030 to get us to a more sustainable future what do you mean by that I haven't heard the the term earth shot sorry no that's fine so matter of fact it's a it's a new term that was kind of coined I believe it was at the end of last year it was coined by British royalty Prince Charles son I can't even think of his name now and Sir David Attenborough and many other greats have come together and launched this instead of a moonshot an earth shot you know kind of what can we do to regenerate restore and get our planet on on this new vision or this new track for the future and it's really tied closely to the United Nations sustainable development goals the Paris agreement the 2030 agenda and most people call it a moonshot because you know but that has to do with going to the moon and outer space and you know maybe even Mars if you're Elon Musk or others but that was something it's kind of like a prize and award over times until 2030 were innovators farmers and people who can make big impacts to improve our our earth our farming our agriculture and those things and you know the royal family of the United Kingdom Prince Charles himself he he's big farmer and into organic practices and things so I just wanted to know if you believe besides those not those specifically is there an earth shot a climate shot a moonshot a plan somewhere out there to get us to 2030 do you do you feel like there's a goal or a roadmap to get us to a better future or it's all national local what are your thoughts or your feelings on that yeah there's a um there's a beautiful quote and i'm going to absolutely butcher it trying to tell you it off the top of my head but it it goes something like um if you want to build a ship don't tell people what to do what work to complete but teach them to yearn for the endlessness of the sea and i that quote really resonates with me because it's all about vision and then a narrative if you can describe your vision of like what this sustainable um carbon neutral world looks like of all the benefits that flow in terms of you know flourishing forests of healthy biodiversity of you know better human health of more productive farming systems if you can articulate that vision then people will naturally you know gravitate towards it because that makes sense that sounds desirable and when you compare it to what we've got when you make people feel you know uncomfortable that you know there are nearly you know one billion people hungry at the moment and we waste you know a third of food that is produced i mean there are some serious problems in the world at the moment and it is easier to turn a blind eye or think you know that's a problem for someone on the other side of the planet or for some time in the future but that's not a reality i mean this is our world and we're all part of this incredibly um interrelated system so by articulating a vision and by telling it with good narrative you know by you know us as individuals telling our stories you know you don't have to tell everything and you don't have to tell someone else's story you just have to tell your own and that's you know authentic and that's honest and at times it's very raw um you know when i describe the impacts of the drought and the toll it has taken you know on my own mental health of you know the heartbreak i feel when i see the land around me you know crippling you know drying out of knowing what my future that i had dreamed of you know is it's not actually going to be a reality anymore those hard truths when you tell people about that and you connect them you you connect their hearts and you connect their minds you help them to see the world as you see it and i think by doing that you then have the opportunity to change people's behavior and you don't have to tell people to do certain things because everyone has a different situation everyone has different resources a different social context they have different abilities on what they can change but if they see the vision that you see they will naturally gravitate towards it and they will figure out what changes they can make in their own lives you know maybe they can't ride a bike to work maybe that's unreasonable for them but maybe they can put solar panels on their roof or maybe you know they can't change the curriculum in their kid's school but perhaps they work in the local council and they have very good connections to local governments it's about looking you know what is our own personal circle of influence because my circle of influence is not the same as yours mark and it's not the same as any of our listeners i will never be able to reach their friends and families like they can and we know that you know friends and families are our most trusted messengers so we shouldn't we should recognize like just those important conversations around the dinner table when we talk about climate change when we talk about our visions for the future and our hope and what changes we would like to see we can actually really inspire others and yeah as mentioned before i think it's it's using our circle of influence to create those ripples and if everyone did just that you know just what they can with what they have where they are then that would make a huge difference i love that that was so eloquently said and i i i believe that they you know climate communication and and these discussions need to occur they need to occur in our communities and our microcosms and our our our little areas all over the world and i think they're so vital i really love the fact that you you express that and i i totally agree so this vision this dream this something that you can visualize when you hear the story that that specific story of what's the vision of that future like when i was younger the star trek was a big sci-fi but it was a vision of the future you know of you know space travel and you know tricorders and hologram rooms and transporters and all these things and it was this you know diversity mixed relationships mixed genders and cultures no smoking you know different type of a sci-fi world but a lot of those innovations those technologies those visions have come through in our lifetime you know cell phones and computers in the palm of your hand hologram vr 3d printers etc that have come very close but for now until your generation until generation x and z uh millennials there's not a lot of visions or stories or these these narratives that can show us what's 2030 gonna look like what's 2050 gonna look like and how how does it look like and feel and uh and especially on media so most of us are trapped you know we watch tv we see movies we you know listen to the radio or we watch a ted talk or that really you know there's black mirror and there's ted talks that have kind of shown these narratives or these stories about the future but other than that and they're all dystopian everything that we see on tv they show us about the future but it's all dystopian we're fighting each other there's wars we're fighting over resources and so i really like the fact that if we can create these stories these mediums but also show it visually and kind of use movie magic use creative storytelling and narratives to say you know this is what the future could look like if we start now if we we tell our stories and say this is what we're doing in our community our circle our family our ranch our our our place where we're at no matter how small um and uh create those visions of where we're going what's the path the roadmap that we're on on this journey and i love the the quote that you you said whether you butchered or not i thought i think that's beautiful that really leads to probably my my last hardest question for you um because of this setup of that and it's the burning question wtf and it's not the swear word even though i'm sure people have been saying this year the swear word many times you know what's going on but the question is what's the future and so since you you talked about those stories and narratives and and creating this edition i would like you specifically not country policy whatever i want you to tell me what's the future yeah i would like to see a world that doesn't need protecting that people actually love and respect the natural world for what it is and they understand how closely connected they are to it that the health of that river system that you know those standing giant forest trees um that's you know the oceans full of fish both healthy ecosystems are directly related to a healthy society to a healthy person because they are but we've lost that and and i think it goes back to what you were saying about you know connecting people and storytelling and using different medias to do that you know we can take beautiful pictures at you know at the so easily these days we can take videos we can tell stories we can do podcasts we can share them with friends and peers around the world instantaneously and we need to be doing that um we need to be telling our stories better and we need to be telling better stories so i don't know where it begins you know it is something to do with education of course we need to be more creative and critical about what work how we're currently living and asking better questions of how do we change it we need to be capturing people's minds and hearts in a whole different you know in so many different ways whether it is through movies whether it is through you know artworks we need to be drawing in the science the complexity of what the science is telling us but then translating that into something that gets people at their heart to look at a beautiful artwork or a photograph of a of a forest and go wow like that is worth saving that is you know wondrous that is magical um that is putting oxygen into the atmosphere and that is capturing carbon that we so mistakenly put up there but we know how it's related now and we know what we can do about it so i would like to yeah see a world where people feel that connection to feel that emotional connection which i feel um and i think if more people felt that emotional connection they would work out what they need to do in their own lives what they can do um there's no easy solution there's no silver bullet it's it's going to be a thousand a million different things to the billions of different people who are out there but yeah as i said earlier if all of us could just you know make a few tweaks in our lives it might seem small but you know gosh they add up and that's where you make a difference that's fabulous thank you so much um the last three questions i have are really kind of selfish therefore my listeners i want to give them a sustainable takeaway from you something that you can depart and give to them that would help them on their journey i'm sure they've gotten tons since in our conversation so far um the the first one is basically if there was one message that you could depart to our listeners uh as a sustainable takeaway that has the power to change their life what would it be what's your message ah there are so many different things but if i have to say one um share your story because your story is unique and you're the only person who can share it and you are the most trusted messenger to your family and friends and if you can share your story even if it's just within a small circle and you inspire them to think just a little bit differently to ponder that question of what climate change actually means of how important recycling is of you know maybe i will plant a vegetable garden and learn how food grows um it's incredibly important and everyone's story is going to be different and each of us is going to you know focus on a different a different thing that we are passionate about i'm i'm passionate about farming but someone else might be passionate about cars and they want to talk about electric vehicles and like what's the future of the car industry and that is just as an important conversation and i'm not the person to have that conversation but if they are then wow like what fraction they could make so share your story that's great what should young innovators and your field be thinking about if they're looking for ways to make a real impact and and i guess the caveat is we that answer you gave before is share the stories but you've done numerous podcasts with people pulling their stories out talking to them letting them have a voice so i know that you've done that for many more people and and you're you're you lead by example so i just wanted to caveat that before but really what should young innovators and your field be thinking about to make real impact i think it's working out you know where your passion lies what skills you have um what area you want to focus in to make that difference because too often when we look at the global problems that we are being challenged by when we look at climate change we can feel daunted and overwhelmed and just not knowing where to start and think you know so many things need to change and they all need to happen together and when you feel that overwhelm when you feel daunted you end up in the default position of not doing anything um you get exhausted before you even start so for me you know i'm i'm very remote i live a very far away part of the country i probably could have been excused to be a quiet voice on the topic of global climate change but i realized looking out the window that my gosh i live in a beautiful beautiful landscape and at my core is i don't want to see that landscape be hurt ever i'm going to do as much as i can to protect that place on my watch because it is my watch for this landscape so i speak about the land i speak for the land and i share photos of it and and i just do what i can in my little bit and that has you know over the last few years that has resonated with people who have never been out here who are disconnected from farmers but they go wow i didn't know that and i'm going to listen to that voice and i'm going to learn about that topic so it's finding yeah your passion point it's working out like what content you want to make a difference on so don't don't feel overwhelmed with the you know with the enormity of it don't feel like you have to do everything because there's you know seven a half billion people out there who can help you they can share the the load so do your part and try and inspire other people around you to do that little bit too wonderful the last question i have for you is really and your experience uh what you've learned uh in this journey so far what would you have like to know from the start you know looking back now say jeez i wish i would have known that and would have saved so much time or effort or is there anything like that um i guess i would have i would have been like to would have liked to have been told that there's a lot of people out there who have got your back that they understand they're working on this problem too because i think yeah five seven years ago when i was finding my own voice i was quite cautious and you know i knew by putting posts on facebook or doing tweets that people were there are people who don't see the world like i do and they will pass comment and criticism and i think i worried for a long time that you know i i didn't want to upset other people and i didn't know how i was going to cope with that criticism when it came my way but i've found people within my community um not even just you know geographically my community but farmers around the world who you know we're totally on the same wavelength and i know if i have a rough day and we're all going to get pushed back and we're all going to have those rough days and we're all going to think you know progress is not happening as quickly as it needs to but there's a lot of other people sharing the load and there's a lot of people out there who would be more than happy to pick pick you up when you're feeling down and it's also important to remember that if you need time out if you are feeling drained and your batteries have run low take a break like you know recharge make sure that you have the mental strength to continue because it's it's not a sprint um you know it's it's a long run and it's a it's a difficult one at some at some points but i don't know when you when you've got that passion and you've got that purpose um yeah not much can shake you is there anything that you would like to ask me before we say goodbye or anything that you did not get to say during our conversation that you would like to touch upon before i tell you goodbye uh i just want to say thank you to you mark because you're doing such an amazing job you know sharing stories and actually communicating big complex topics like this and you're reaching out to audiences and it's so important that we you know we educate that we engage and we empower people and that's exactly what you're doing so thank you i really appreciate it and i'm so glad that we've had the opportunity to stay in touch over distance and reconnect and do this podcast and and do the book and and we're going to have many more times in the future and it's going to get better and our stories and our vision our clarity of how beautiful resilient desirable futures and that vision of where we're going and what we can do to engineer farm create and reach that future is really bubbling to the surface stories are popping up all over and i think we're all becoming aligned with this beautiful vision of the direction where we could go and and so i'm i'm totally excited and i'm excited to to to be in touch with you and then we'll see each other much more maybe we'll get an update in about a year and do another podcast and and let everybody know the journey we've been on again for this next year i wish you all the best and thank you so much and have a wonderful day thank you so much muck thanks