 Oh, what about the burritos about yeah, number one You need to calm down with your Taco Bell slander It is it is just out of pocket Roger. I Have I have never tasted a worse burrito than one from Taco Bell It literally is a it is sour cream and guacamole surrounded by a poorly wrapped Tortilla let's also understand that the guacamole doesn't even have guacamole Consistency and it is just sort of like a toothpaste that is flavored like guacamole and it's the best and To put all this other crap. I mean like number one You're throwing in El Faro as a as a fast food burrito That's that's unfair like you can't call El Faro a fast Like and then really this is this is something that is that is unfair and like we've been friends for years I don't know if this will ever recover That you would put a breakfast burrito from McDonald's or Burger King over a Taco Bell burrito. Yes, I would I agree I don't want to listen number one. This shows canceled like I'll just record it by myself because I like this We've all you both of you have damaged your credibility to the point that I don't know if anyone's even gonna want to listen to the show There is nothing you can eat at Taco Bell that is worth eating. It's like it's there's nothing healthy There's no way you can eat anything there. Okay, everyone. That's ridiculous In a ridiculous conversation and me and millions of others understand that Taco Bell is not Mexican It is Taco Bell and it is You guys have Del Taco. Yes Del Taco is bad Mexican food Taco Bell is Taco Bell It is its own thing. I will say I will say they put something in the Doritos Locos tacos or whatever the hell they call it that's pretty like makes you want another one Yeah, but the problem is after you eat three of those about five minutes you regret it It's like why did I eat three of these you regret it? It's Taco Bell is part of the experience You regret you regret white castle when you eat it you regret any fast food when you eat it I don't regret in and out. I've never regretted it out. I felt it in and out But I've never Listen Nothing that you get in a fast food nothing that you get and you can eat in your car is ever gonna make you feel good Make you feel good. Do you like Baja fresh? Yeah, it's all right. Here's the thing though. He's like When you're when you're talking about a fast food taco the closer you get to good Mexican food But without getting it you get into an uncanny valley Like what I don't need toy story to be Schindler's list like there's there's room on on the food spectrum for everything To a list You know, why don't they just ship everything and talk about and happy meal style, you know You know This is the one thing You know Burger no, no, just skip all that out together. I'm just saying why don't you just like go someplace, you know The worst case scenario waffle house. I mean I will love a waffle house. I love a waffle house that is Every worst stereotype about waffle house like I love the over chatty Cook I love the fact that it smells like somebody smoking in there despite the fact that that's illegal and gross like That's not happening But not today. They're pretty clean for the most part. I don't I don't think it smells like smoke and oh That's when I love I love that one No, no, no, I go to the ones that get like a 90, you know for score or something I mean, that's not I'm not doing that. There is a waffle house by my place when I lived in Florida That in the time that I live there and granted I grew up around there So this is over the span of about 15 years had no less than three murders take place It's Florida every story starts with a Florida man. That's just the way it goes. I mean Number one, absolutely. But here look at this mr. Anthropology in our in our slack says that the the fast food burrito hierarchy goes Taco Bell Going hungry Chipotle and Q doba Q doba's at the top of the list. So we went from bottom to top. I don't even know what is it going hungry? Going just going hungry not eating. Oh, that's not a fast food restaurant Okay, and so so that Taco Bell is below starving Taco Bell is below starvation Then we have Chipotle and then Q doba. I don't know who these Q doba people are Well, I mean like there I've eaten at a Q doba It's an I eat burrito, but I'll go with Chipotle over Q doba any all day of the week and also Q doba and Sorry Chipotle and Taco Bell are not in the same food group Because Chipotle is Mexican food and Taco Bell is Taco Bell You know, it's weird is as much flak as Tex-Mex gets Yeah, that's actually its own cuisine. It's not it's not like a weird half-assed Mexican cuisine It's it's a very specific regional cuisine. Oh, certainly. So I think if you Like great Tex-Mex tastes better or not better, but different than great Mexican Yeah, like it is it is its own It's own thing. I think the most popular one is chili It's most well-known. I think I don't know if nachos counts. It's nachos Would nachos count as is that me it came from Mexico though It came from one, you know from a couple of border crossers when shopping south of the border and they ate at a Mexican restaurant that's the only thing the Not the cook but the owner had at the time because I guess he ran out of food huh Gave him a bowl of tortilla chips that he diced and fried and added cheese I'm sure it's not like the kind you get at a county fair Where is that weird cheddar liquid that I used to serve up in the exploratory? I have never ever had a discussion so long about one of the taco or Mexican place right like just just go buy the stuff that it goes to store and make their own it'll be way healthier Listen sure man if you put enough words together eventually they make sense like like that's that's a That does not solve the problem of I'm hungry and I'm in my car and I need to eat something in my car I ain't got a kitchen in my car. I don't have a skillet. I don't have a chopping board like yeah sure like you could do it But also I I see a Taco Bell or they found a new way to combine meat cheese and refried beans And I need to find out what this new artistry is Delicious I Just try not to do those things No, it's better. It's better for your health. It's better for your life to not do it, right? But there's you can always you can always time it like a little health store and get one of them nut bars and eat Those things can be bad for you though Like the really good ones tastes like crap like the ones are actually not I shouldn't say healthy But actually do what they're supposed to do. They just taste like chalk Yeah, because all the stuff they make it palatable makes it unhealthy but chocolate chips that You know the overly sugar whatever They dust on it All right, I'm gonna hide All right, I'm still recording locally, right? Yeah, so you're just gonna record the show. I have to record the whole thing for the treasure chest Yeah, including the conversations and stuff So Scott Justin's is basically gonna start the show is gonna read off a few things and then he'll bring you in at the with the news Scott a molten right. Yep, that's correct Okay, and then I'm gonna go through the news if you if you have anything to comment on Then please feel free. Otherwise, I will just rock and roll past it All right, you're gonna start a minute early Sure, we have been I think we have a couple of times this week. Oh Let's go ahead The Daily Tech news show is powered by its audience and not outside organizations to find out more head to Daily Tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech news for Thursday, September 8th, 2016 I'm Justin Robert young filling in for a vacationing man in Japan Tom Merritt. I'm going to be joined By well here. Let's introduce him. No, why don't we Scott Moulton computer forensics and data recovery expert Scott? How you doing sir? I'm doing great. How are you doing? Oh? I can't complain. It is a joy as always to host the Daily Tech news show and we Have a very very very interesting conversation coming up specifically about Data and whether or not it is a tangible property just to give people a little bit of a Wessel wedding whistle whistle wedding on this subject You are not only an expert on a subject, but there are some interesting legal precedent that is imminent to be set Right, that's correct, and I'm happy to be here. Thanks. Thanks guys for having me Well, let's go ahead and get into the news In an interview with Buzzfeed Apple senior VP of hardware engineering a Dan Irichio explained that the removal of the headphone jack on the iPhone 7 saying it was quote Fighting for space with camera technologies and processors and battery life and frankly There's a better modern solution available. It's crazy to keep it around Of course to replace the audio jack Apple created the AirPod earbuds powered by the w1 Wireless chip according to recode the w1 wireless chip is Bluetooth with some additional code to allow seamless pairing with the iPhone 7 And to register earbuds over iCloud with iPads Apple watches and Macs But and this is something that I feel like got lost in a lot of the discussion yesterday They will work with non-apple devices as Bluetooth devices by themselves So you won't get this seamless special sauce code, but you can connect them with non-apple devices Scott what was your take on some of the Apple announcements yesterday? And will you mourn the loss of a headphone jack? Should you get an iPhone 7? Well, I feel like you know They keep messing with certain ports and I've always kind of felt like those over over time computers and everything That certain ports that we had no problem with that's the only port that like there was never fuss There was you know, you plug something in you could test it it worked And I will mourn the loss of the headphone jack for that main reason that it was very simple And when you have a complicated problem and you're trying to troubleshoot something what you know For most of us that's our whole life is to try to deal with problems that other users have or something that happens And so so I'm concerned that you know, I felt that way about the mouse port when it originally went away the keyboard port I mean, there's a couple of things they added complexities to but to be fair After they did it there were some problems in the beginning of getting rid of keyboard and mouse ports And they eventually kind of went away and I don't really consider them to be a problem You don't feel a lot of times like your Bluetooth or or something's not working right by comparison So maybe there'll be some growing pains at the beginning It's really gonna be for people who listen to music in their car And they don't have a direct connection in their car already because there's still a lot of you know Ten-year-old cars even five-year-old cars that don't have a Bluetooth connection or an auxiliary jack. It's gonna be easy Now I do understand. They also have a plug where you're gonna be able to use Through through the bottom of the phone You can still plug in a dongle and then plug in your audio And that dongle is coming free right except that it doesn't charge as I understand at the same time right now currently that If I understood correctly what they said is you could only listen to audio But you could not charge your phone at the same time So if you're on a one port previously you would be able to plug in your headphones and plug in the charging at the same time I do think that there is one thing that sort of became clear in Apple's justification of the move Afterward which is that this is not us making a cavalier decision and certainly Phil Schiller's courageous comment got I think not undo criticism although Considering the fact that the volume of headlines that came out both yesterday and today It certainly does take a little bit of fortitude to face that kind of music But that being said Apple's justification is in their mind what they're selling today is That this is not the loss of the headphone jack for the loss of the headphone jack and although we believe that the future of audio is wireless It's not even necessarily the reason why we did it now the reason why we did it now is battery life camera functionality and haptic feedback and Waterproof and water proof right yeah, we could not and I agree with the water I definitely agree with the waterproof statement that without a doubt That's one of the places where water does you know doing repairs and doing forensics and doing things on damaged phones It is one of the places where that is more likely that water is going to get in through that audio port and affect the phone more than anything else And so I agree with that. It can't hurt to have an additional speaker I've always felt like the current audio on the phones sucks really bad and having an additional speaker will be very helpful But again while I miss it and there will be some adjustment I think there will be things that you know some innovation that will come instead So those cars who only have audio jacks will come up with some Variation of a Bluetooth device that they can connect to while they're still charging their phone that they can use Bluetooth I mean Bluetooth has become fairly common from a standpoint of of even though we might still have a connected headphone jack That there is still plenty of options that are Bluetooth. It just hasn't been a really good set of headphones in my opinion I guess We have quite a few like on motorcycles and things like that that it worked really well have good long battery life Last you know 12 14 hours But I just don't feel like there's been a really good set that plugs into your ears And I'm not sure five hours does it either for what they actually have on their current upcoming Yeah, five hours of talk time and 24 hours of listening time, right? That I don't know. Oh, yeah Usually apples pretty good about battery battery. I agree if anybody is it you're right They have been and hopefully that will be a good solution And then somebody will build on that and do something similar or license their technology and hopefully come out with You know because I do think it's a great idea that it's detecting when there's in your ear and it turns off the power So it doesn't burn the battery like things like that little little touches like that help the tremendous amount And and there have been like I said in some high-end motorcycle helmet Headphones and things like that they do things like that they detect You know when something's playing and turn itself off or they detect the remotes and turn them off and you know I do feel like at least we're making some headway that might solve this problem I just really think as a whole it's just going to be people in cars or airplanes that might have some problems Yesterday Twitter enabled live video notifications from individual accounts the subscribe button appears on the accounts profile page Subscribers will receive alerts when a periscope stream goes live for example However, according to Buzzfeed as of today Twitter is killing the button at least for now But at least Twitter did roll out new features for direct messages adding read receipts and showing who in a direct message has read and responded to it Typing indicators and web link preview so getting a little bit I guess one step forward one step back when it comes to being able to subscribe to various video creators and getting a little bit more chat friendly the Love it leave it hate it back together break up relationship that Twitter has with direct messages now Seems to be on again as they are building a more robust way for people to communicate on a regular basis with direct Message do either of these particular Advancements tickle your pickle Scott. Well one is I love any of this kind of content because it produces Forensics content for me to review later and so anytime I see more data and more content people doing direct messages I'm pretty happy about it because it'll produce some data that I can review and get paid for but second Twitter's got to do something to To be viable so that they can actually figure out a way to make some money So that they don't continue to to fall in this collapse that they are and eventually going to disappear if they don't solve This problem very quickly of how they're going to produce some income so anything that they have as a positive step I'm going to say I will tell you it is getting really tiring dealing with you know 140 character messages and trying to actually do anything from a business perspective It's very difficult if you're going to try to be on a business platform I understand the the you know why it's there and trying to stay in you know 160 characters of an SMS message but those days have kind of passed and we don't really even have that limitation on phones for the Most part anymore, so I'd be happy to see You know at least an increase in size maybe a double Well, I mean however they go ahead and handle the The specific issue of character limits the one thing that they are absolutely pushing forward to and this is very important today As this is the kickoff of the NFL is that they are going to be a partnership with the National Football League to air games Ways that people can make sure they do not miss a game on Twitter's platform is very important for them because again, they are going to be the ones who are selling advertising against this extraordinarily if not prohibitively Expensive content, so it's curious to see that they have not settled on exactly how they want people to do this While the NFL is already in the process of kicking off ZD nets marry Joe Foley reports that Microsoft will launch a new surface branded all in one PC this October according to her contacts the product is being called Cardinal and is being positioned as a machine that can turn your desk into a studio Fully fully speculates that the all-in-one may ship in different screen sizes from 21 inch to 27 inch Microsoft is also rumored to be highlighting an OEM device at the same event Either of these interest you Again for kind of the same reason like I really love the devices that they're putting out and the way that they help Us deal with forensics and deal with content The more devices the better I see a lot of things in a lot of different cases and a lot of the data recovery stuff that I'm working on so You know, I think they're heading in the right direction I think they are becoming more popular and I'm seeing them more and more in for forensics and for data recovery cases So that kind of shows me at least their popularity is increasing over just say the iPad or something. That's a lot more closed platform Now I do want to apologize for all of our listeners and viewers Obviously, we endeavor every single day here at daily tech news show to bring you the top news The the stuff that not only shapes your world, but specifically the world that you will face in the future However, with Tom gone for the last week and a half I can now I'm gonna issue a proactive Apology that we have buried the lead in this week's news and that is that we did not immediately Tell you up top not about apples earpods not about the new surface all-in-one, but rather Alphabet's project wing unit and Chipotle who have teamed up to deliver burritos by drone to the students of Virginia Tech The FAA approved the experimental service that will start this month and run just a few weeks The drones are self-guided hybrid aircraft that will fly like planes But convert to hover like helicopters and use a winch to make their delivery Human pilots will be on standby to take control to satisfy FAA requirements Chipotle burritos by way of drones We might not have flying cars Scott, but at least we have this tasty consolation prize Obviously, this is this is something that is a bit of a gimmick And we're kind of joking around here, but I Think it is encouraging for drone enthusiasts to see some Commercial application even one that is as silly as this out there in the world that the FAA is is starting to at least dip their toe in agreeing to these sort of experiments Now I think you are just waiting for Taco Bell to do the same thing so that you can have your delivery without actually having to get In the car, I mean, you know I live on I live on a I have a beautiful view in my apartment here in Oakland I would love to retreat to my roof and have some kind of Taco Bell activity land right in my hand It would truly a glorious day Air B&B introduced policy changes to short-term rentals in response to allegations and criticism of discrimination by hosts and potential guests Starting November 1st They will ask all users to agree to a quote community commitment and quote that works with others that that you will work with others quote Regardless of race religion national origin disability sex gender identity sexual orientation or age and quote Because the the company will also experiment with reducing the prominence of user photos and accelerate the use of instant booking They also in a letter to users Touted a new program wherein if somebody proves or reports an instance of discrimination Airbnb themselves Will try to find you an equivalent air B&B in the area and if not find you other lodging This is retroactive to other people who have lodged complaints of Discrimination this all stems of course From a lot of bad publicity that came Aaron Airbnb's way Where in somebody specifically one pops the mind of a gentleman of color that tried to get a room Was denied after he had been initially accepted then had a friend of his that was white That tried for the exact same room and was given it Airbnb of course is not Any stranger to controversy does this seem like something for you Scott that is a good-faith effort going forward Well, I think it is a good-faith effort However, there probably are going to be a lot of problems going forward and you know This is kind of right up my alley because the same user I believe also sued Airbnb and they're trying to quell kind of the lawsuit side of people suing them for discrimination and race discrimination because they do in Airbnb put right up front your photo and reviews by other people and try to kind of you know Give a good impression about who you are because you're you're doing a lot more Profile building when you're trying to stay at an Airbnb as opposed to you know Uber or something like that where it's you know there's a lot less material and so that means they're gonna have to do a lot more to Get rid of stats and things people are gonna do but the problem I have is that there's some of these instances where you know Maybe and I don't want to start like a whole another controversy here about racism and things like that But I mean, you know, I might not necessarily want to stay at someone who's like the head of the KKK or something like that So there may be some premise to know who you're staying with or stay You know and I understand what the problems are from that happening that you know the putting profiles pictures out there and they're trying to do that but Why would you want to make somebody? You know, what if a a person of color does end up staying at a KKK member's house? That's not gonna be very helpful for them either. I who would want to do that So I don't know how they're gonna control this in a way that kind of gets rid of discrimination without putting somebody at risk Well, I think Airbnb's point would be that they would just prefer that the Grand Wizard did not list But you know, we're saying don't discriminate against them either, right? So I don't I don't know. I don't that you don't always know what these items are And you know, I've stayed in them across multiple countries So and Airbnb has always been very friendly and very helpful to me from that standpoint and people have you know It's always been a really great experience for me But I don't know what some of the other people are experiencing from that standpoint Well, here's a platform that never discriminates that is our reddit. Please we want to issue a gigantic. Thank you, too some semi Calvarez Captain Kibber the lazy one and everyone else who participates on the subreddit join the fund and submit stories You find and vote on them over at daily tech news show dot reddit Dot-com and that Are the top stories. Let's get into our discussion is data a tangible property Obviously, this is a bit of a deep dive here. So go ahead and affix your masks and Adjust your breathing apparatus as we head on in Scott give us a primer on some of the issues with this particular subject so As as some of you have followed me and other things probably know I do a lot of forensics I do data recovery. I teach classes that do a number of different things about a testifying court and I Work on multiple types of cases from you know Murders down through divorce, but some of the some of the instances of the things that I've worked on have involved insurance companies and Tax issues as well. So one of the current ones that's come up that I have testified about in Colorado And something that is trying to be defined at this point And pretty much as best I can tell in one of the first court cases that's happened since 1993 with a case about AOL dealing with the same kind of instances is whether or not data is a tangible asset for the purposes of taxing and This came up over a number of for a number of different reasons And I do have some opinions with regards to where it fits into the scheme of things and what I've testified about and what has Actually occurred, but just to give the users kind of a premise about where we stand with this Yeah, I had to do with the with the idea that AMC movie theaters would have a movie reel or something that has been Normally taxed as a use tax when it comes in to the movie theater that they've actually got a movie They're displaying they're making money on and accounting might tax that particular item And then the argument has been made is that now that it's digital and that it's not it's not actually a reel of film anymore That it's not tangible property. It's not an item that actually exists It's a complete intangible item and should not be taxed So therefore the money that was being received by a county that might go to a police force or something like that to Assist in problems at a movie theater or rural County of all places Would also now cease to exist. They wouldn't get any more money if that were true so because the the county would not be receiving the tax Benefit that would normally come along with the fact that reels were coming in and out of that movie theater That that would affect them having County Law enforcement presence. Well, that that's a result. That's a result of what happened on the back end That's not the argument itself Whether or not it's it's what is the difference between there being a physical crate coming in and there being a reel of film and Then AMC for example downloading the movies on a hard drive Yes, or or being delivered by satellite dish or something like that What is the difference is the content that is received the movie that is received? Does it does it consist of something? Tangible because there's an argument with regards to Magnetic media or you know electrons that are basically captured in a solid-state disc What would actually constitute something that is stored that is a tangible item as opposed to say a book or something That's sitting there on the table that you can reach out and touch or do something with You know it is data a tangible asset. Do you own it? Do you possess it? You know and it's some of the same kind of things that there are some arguments about that existed in Courts for you know say the purpose of somebody having child porn or somebody embezzling money or doing something You know on on a digital resource as opposed to a physical resource and there's been a lot of different types of Resolutions because certain states don't they don't care what it is They just tax it you know like the state of Washington just taxes everything regardless of what that that item is whether it's a service or you know Netflix as an example is taxed in some locations, but other locations It's not like currently in the state of Georgia. Netflix is not currently taxed, but in the state of Washington it is taxed so so Just to clear up Probably you did mention that you have a side in this you have you are an expert on one side of this particular case the AMC versus Aurora County case of what What what what side do you want and what is your position on that side? Well, I'm I am at least from a standpoint of being hired at my position or what I you know I'm not paid for for a particular opinion per se I'm paid for my time. I've done a lot of research. I've done a lot of things to try to determine this So but you know in my opinion, it is a tangible asset that data You know one of the things that constitutes a tangible asset in a lot of cases is you know people are saying whether or not you can reach out and touch it or do something but Whether or not it exists in a form that can be destroyed is also a predominantly Strong idea. So as an example, let me let me kind of pose this to you If if you had an idea could I destroy that idea with something physical? Could I use a hammer to destroy your I you know your idea or could I use a hammer to destroy your constitutional rights? Or you know run over it with a car and get rid of your right just because it's you know versus tangible versus Intangible so you know the premise that I kind of come to is that an intangible asset Is impervious to a tangible asset So if you have a tangible asset such as a hammer or something along those lines that you can destroy something with then There must be something that exists for that to actually be there for you to be able to destroy it So whether or not we're talking about you know because all of us are made of atoms all of us are made from you know a selection of electrons and things that are moving around So does that mean that data isn't just because it does exist there or it can be copied or it can be transmitted Does that mean that it doesn't exist just because you know in a tangible state? Just because you can't see it or you can't touch it in the way that we're used to like a book So how does that argument get changed if you are then selling? Permanent or non permanent rights of use if you are only using it for a little bit of time You're renting it versus owning it. How does that affect whether or not it is going to be taxed or or? You know as subject to other permanent good restrictions Well, and there are some legal issues with regards to renting and whether or not it's owned One of the items that typically comes up is whether or not it's insured as well And that the way that you can ensure something and whether or not it constitutes being a tangible asset for its insurance purposes So there are a lot of items that are involved contractually with trying to Identify those things and what can happen to them can somebody steal it can somebody physically touch it or do something? and you know in the particular instance with what you're talking about From a rental standpoint again, there's a contract that will define what happens with that now the contract itself may be written in paper and that may be tangible, but the concept of the contract is Intangible because the agreement that you're actually making it has no relevance to whether or not it's on this piece of paper or not It's a concept and so concepts with regards to a contract or something like that or Even patents patents kind of go back and forth. There's actually some different Situations where con you know sometimes patents are considered Tangible and sometimes they're considered intangible depending on insurance purposes and what you're buying and things like that But you know the insurance world in a lot of cases is one of the predominant items that starts to help to kind of define these things what can actually be paid for and Protected versus destroyed and so you know on the back end a lot of these things for instance a digital newspaper Yeah, so the fact that you're reading it on the screen versus being delivered to your door does that change This content in any way that you know and again this is a problem throughout the United States So you've had newspapers that have been delivered to the door for years. The tax is paid There's a service that's actually occurring the county the city everybody's getting Support by that. What if all that was just dissolved and that now because you're reading it digitally that there is no tax And there is no support then you actually have a reclining system and and certainly I don't want to pay any more taxes Than anybody else does in that same point, but there there is a balance here where if everything becomes digital We don't have movies stores. We don't have music. We don't have a number of things anymore that we used to have That's kind of dissolved I was wondering if I could step in just a little bit and I was wondering, you know, what about software? I mean software itself is essentially just data, right? We accept that when you when it's bought and sold you're essentially buying a license to use it So, you know in the same way that like you have a deed to a house Or a contract that supposedly allows you to do that. It's an intangible asset, but you can still kind of charge For that you can still collect a Fee or a tax or like what you're saying you use tax before Traditionally Most places previously and because it has changed over time with certain states because they're realizing the market has dissolved You don't have the tangible store that you used to go to and buy something so some states have changed What what the law is with regards to taxation generally speaking for example in Georgia? If I buy software and I download it and I never receive a package I don't pay tax if I buy something that is software and they send me a disk Or I picked it up at the store then they do charge me tax But there are other places like Washington State where they have redefined that basically saying they don't care What it is or how you get it that you are going to pay tax on it because it is a product And I will tell you that my stance and looking at all this What you just said is the defining moment of what I think would be taxable and what is not taxable So for example you buy TurboTax and you use it to create your tax form per se or or you know some intuitive software and you sit here and you use clickin to make a database that consists of your data and In that particular instance, it's not a product The product itself is that you have bought something from Intuit or you bought clickin And that would be a product and that makes sense to tax Does it make sense to tax that you have a database that you have? Put your data into and I would I would say that that does not that doesn't even though it might be Tangible in a fact of where it stored it takes up space. It has time to transfer things like that And this is where a movie is different because a movie while it is data and is delivered It is the end-user product. They're not modifying the movie. They're not changing the movie They're not making it their own. They're not doing something to that data And so or music or a number of other things so so should music be taxed Because you are receiving music as opposed to I made music or I made my own song and now I've stored it on my hard drive Well, it's interesting you bring that up because music oftentimes is charged as a performance fee like under a performance rather than an actual Good, you're buying an mp3. You're buying music over the internet is not in a lot of cases charged that way it is if you are going to a theater and you are sitting down and you are listening to say a Orchestra playing the music then that's done under a performance, but not physically when you're buying the music itself Through iTunes or some other source from this standpoint I'm sorry. Go ahead Roger. I was just wondering like you know and one of the things that I do want to mention This isn't necessarily relate just to taxes also things of insurance, but also legal issues When it comes to whether or not most so the what I'm thinking here is heritage is one of the problems. Yeah is What you're saying if you're not an idea if you could crush or not Could you you know if you if you sold someone an idea for a show? So I'm gonna do a sitcom about a bunch of computer geeks in a house that's broken or something When would you would you would you consider that? Is that considered a tangible and tangible good? Would it be taxable? Would it be taxable? Would it be something that you could consider theft like you know stealing good? We have copyright ideas, but you have to copyright it I'm just kind of I'm wondering if it's really an issue of how we define tangible and tangible Or if it's just a tax code thing where we just say okay now these things anything you make money off of We'll just charge you a tax There already is some issues with regard to that so for instance the idea of the show itself isn't taxable But the concept that I sold this idea to someone can be and in many cases is taxable and that you are receiving And it really depends sometimes on how you're hired or what this idea is or how you've sold it If I sold the rights to my book I mean there's some things like that that have already been decided and that they're still fighting about But you know a lot of times it does come down to what specifically the law is saying about whether or not by state Or by a uniform code whether or not this item is tangible or intangible because that has been the defining moment And things have changed a lot I mean let's be honest in the last 20 years with regards to what we're storing In our photos that used to be physically printed and sitting in a book versus now digitally on our computer That you know have you suffered a loss if you lose that thing or is that something that if you have done some art As an example if I did some digital art can that should that be tangible in the same way that a picture on the wall might be And so those are where some of those arguments come in but there are defining moments with regards to performances But just so that you understand too with regards to performances where you go in and you listen to an orchestra playing They usually have a seat tax There is some sort of tax that was paid at the time that the person either bought the ticket or came and sat down in that seat And they actually have a tax for them to sit there and listen to that music that isn't defined under the normal I've got a performance that the performance itself isn't made It's a peripheral tax on something that related to the performance but not necessarily on the performance itself That's right Sorry to interrupt Jerry Oh no no no please ladies and gentlemen of course It's a complex topic Yeah it's it's complex I think part of part of it is that you know typically when people refer to an intangible good They think of they think of like you know wills and things that that might be constructed in the legal sense But not necessarily something that I'm going to pick up and I said like I had the screwdriver it's worth 50 cents kind of thing And you know people mentioned the chat room things about like services and performance But you mentioned the idea of inheritance or heritance like something you can give bequeath offload to someone else But still have its intrinsic value carried on regardless of it no longer being part of me or my possession and being like say to my sister or something There definitely is a huge issue with inheritance or an item that exists as a digital or a tangible asset from that perspective That might have been of value and that you know I think that helps us to define that as a tangible asset Because then the law would be more straightforward with you know who can get it or what actually happens Rather than you know I have these digital assets that somebody decides when I die You know there's always this big fight in court with regards to what you actually have and who's going to get it And whether or not it even exists sometimes it's just locked out and you just don't even have it anymore from that standpoint So you know if somebody had a huge amount of art that they paid for in some way that's you know sitting on a drop box somewhere And somebody dies and they lock them out of the drop box account what does it take to actually get that content And if it is an actual asset then it has possession that has ownership and the courts would help with defining what those things are And I think this is a future problem that's just going to grow. We're only at kind of the cusp of somebody having something that means something that only exists digitally And that's what I think is so exciting about this particular issue is that we are just beginning to see what the face of this will be And on what kind of crossroads people will make the decisions of what it means and how it will be defined Scott you mentioned that very interesting one of those cases is going to be AMC versus Aurora County This is something that is close to a decision right? Right that's correct it's already been through the court and the judges sitting on the judges desk waiting for a decision to be made Based on all the papers everything that's already been written and produced and testified about So if you would like to continue to follow this issue that would be a great case to start with again that is AMC theaters versus Aurora County Let's get into our pick of the day DTNS boss John Clayton in Montana wanted to share his pick of the day with us he says I wanted to share an incredible combo for cord cutters an HD home run and the channels app on the Apple TV or iOS We have multiple Apple TVs throughout the house but only one TV has an OTA antenna hooked up to it now with this combo I can watch over the air broadcast on any TV in the house I don't have to find the TVs remote to do so it even supports about 30 minutes of a buffer for pausing and seeking through live television channels can be found at I got the HD home run extend for the onboard transcoder but I found it unnecessary on the local network and cheaper connect models and it probably would Sorry the cheaper connect model probably would have worked out fine hope you've had a good vacation Tom the show is in good hands while you are out Well hopefully John continues to believe that after listening to me handling the show over the last two weeks but I very much appreciate him writing in Of course you can follow in his great example by sending your picks to feedback at DailyTechNewShow.com and you can find more picks at DailyTechNewShow.com Let's get into our messages of the day Nick chimes in on yesterday's Apple announcement show he writes I find it really interesting that Apple quietly killed the Solid gold Apple watch edition in favor of more cheaper yet still premiere ceramic watches I think it would be really interesting for one of the Apple Rumor folks like Mark Gurman to dig deeper and find out why the presumably high profitable solid gold watch was killed there surely got to be a great story behind it We're gonna take a wild guess here and say that they got killed because people didn't buy it you know and that's saying something considering they probably didn't have to sell many of them to make it a big deal were you ever tempted to buy the ten thousand dollars solid gold Apple watch edition Scott I have never been tempted yet to buy the cheap $200 version of the Apple watch I just at this point in time I think that they need to and maybe they have with the series to maybe they've expanded its capabilities and battery life and things like that so that it's that it would be more useful but I certainly done investigations on them Yeah you know I'm a daily Apple watch user I love it I can't wait until the next the next iteration and the next OS which I've heard very very good things about I however am not Floyd money Mayweather and have never to spend $10,000 on much let alone a watch that is already as of tomorrow going to be obsolete via presale Hey everybody don't forget to catch day 6 of DTNS with Australian Peter Wells I love that he is just Australian Peter Wells like he's a pro wrestler he's got his own little intro go ahead and listen to it this weekend if you want to see his contribution as part of our normal DTNS lineup help us reach our goal at patreon.com slash DTNS and again thanks not only to our super producer Roger who who did all the heavy lifting during that that awesome interview but also to the man who was our expert Scott Moulton you have my hard drive died dot com where can people continue to follow along with your work Yeah that's that's the place my hard drive died dot com is where I keep most of the items up for anybody to follow and from there there will be links to YouTube or Twitter or Facebook or whatever they want to talk to me on Well we would like to thank you for joining us this is one of those kinds of conversations that I feel very very passionately is what makes Daily Tech News show so much different than every other tech podcast is that it has the courage yes the courage to delve into these kinds of issues before they enter into the hype bubble where everybody has to take a side and make it into things that it very often isn't so on a conceptual level we can bring those kinds of discussions to you and I thank you Scott for taking your time in doing it for us today Any time happy to be here thank you very much If you would just like the headlines of the day in less than 10 minutes subscribe to daily tech headlines at a daily tech headlines dot com our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com gets the show live Monday through Friday 4 30 p.m. Eastern at alpha geek radio and diamond club dot TV and website visit our website daily tech news show dot com tomorrow's guests Terry Johnson joins me I will see you guys later on the diamond club hope you have enjoyed this program and we're out awesome thanks guys for having me on appreciate it thank you very much guys you know you're you have a pretty hectic schedule yeah yeah but I'm always happy to do whatever you need so if you need anybody let me know um let's we we normally have the the listeners submit their ideas for what should be the title for the episode so here are the top ones air be in bigotry two cables one port burrito bombs sky chipotle in the burrito bowl of tomorrow can I touch your bits that might be a little uncomfortable please hammer don't hurt the data let's see the one data time can't touch this intangible taxes are digital duty interesting play on words there I see you blue tooth salmonella takes wing salmonella only work that I kind of like sky chipotle in the burrito bowl of tomorrow well if you in the audience have a particular desire for one or the other vote now well you still can we'll be opening this up we'll leave this open for like three more minutes so let me ask you this one question Scott as someone who does forensics on data it's the best way to kill my hard drive should I just put a drill through my my old hard drive if I don't want anyone ever to pull yeah but what I would do first because there's no easy way to certify it what I would do first is I would do what's called secure race and then after secure race then I would put drills through it so I would drill holes in it and you're pretty guaranteed at that point that there's absolutely zero chance anything's coming back well if I put a drill through it I mean how much of that data could conceivably be recovered well it probably none only because even if there's just one hole what happens is the head moves over the drive and as it hits that spot where there's physical damage it's probably going to rip the head off of the drive itself so every time that I've done it as soon as you turn it on it wax the edge of that and then because it'll be a rough edge too if you've drilled it it's not going to be a perfectly flat edge so the head will hit that and it will completely destroy the head even in an initialization phase the head moves across the platter almost every time and so even with just one hole in it you're going to hit it eventually and it's going to destroy it so like I mean I could just put like five drill holes through it like Swiss cheese yeah right exactly yeah I mean I have a certification process where I do that but the entire point of the certification process is to verify it's white so I do the white process first and certify that then I turn around and then drill holes in it to show that it's damaged you know it's beyond recoverable and in many cases there's a ROM on the board not every drive is exactly the same because some can be rebuilt but normally if you put a drill through a ROM on the PCB board you cannot usually recover it at all because the ROM contains some tables it would be very difficult to rebuild they're unique to that drive hmm so have you ever pulled it off magnetic tape? yes but again this is one of those things where you have to know how it was laid out on the thing so most of the time you've got to have an idea about what the program is that was used sometimes you can figure it out sometimes once you actually start looking at the tape there will be a header or there will be some information on it that you can actually tell but there is a company in Atlanta that is an expert at that has written code to deal with a lot of it so a lot of the very complex cases will refer the tape stuff to them it's called EMag so that's one of the companies that normally would handle that kind of stuff but I've certainly dealt with some other one you know whether using Symantec or Veritas or a couple others that you know we've got to pull data off the drive Solaris a few things like that so most of the time the drives are available and if you know the application you can usually pull it back without too big a problem if you have to splice the tape together you can usually get something running again cool well thank you very much for that bit of information I have chosen Sky Chipotle in the burrito bowl of Manana as a title I want a burrito bowl because all you know the flour is actually kind of heavy but I am also going to say goodbye to the folks on AlphaGeek Radio thank you for listening been awesome see you guys tomorrow see that's off and then thank you to everyone in the chat room for watching our live stream and I'm going to stop broadcast and I will see you guys in Manana as well see you later