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Food or Security? Harlow's study on monkeys' attachment

by Casper H. • 361,657 views

Short documentary part on the controversial studies performed by Harry Harlow and his assistants. "Food or security, what will it be for the monkey".

jerks took them away from their mother:/ stupid humans.... This isn't the life these babies should have.
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Morgan Freeman should've narrated this..More atmosphere.
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If you say this didn't contribute to anything, you are clearly not a scientist and by the way, you've probably done worst by eating your diner (If you don't understand this last statement I meant that you are probably not a vegetarian and therefore kill animals to feed yourself while you could avoid it). Please know that scientific research is good for the advancement of science and many other fields (and this research is old, now ethics are way stricter). I felt a bit sad too, but the results were interesting...
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Baby Monkey @ 0:24 is happily sucking his own cock!
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I think humans are smart enough to find ways to get their answers from observing occurences in nature... no need to create additional artificial cruelty...
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This is the dumbest waste of time I have ever seen.  This will have absolutely no benefit to anyone.  WHO CARES?
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+GOLDENFLYWARRIOR How is it greed motivated? Harlows studies have revolutionized what we thought we knew about child rearing and have allowed us to develop new and better methods to raising our children.
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+John Gillispie This has TREMENDOUS applications to human nature and behavior
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It is really cruel to use monkeys for eksperiments this way. Abuse of human power and animal cruelty.  
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Cela m'ai de la peine pour ces petits singes qui devrait être avec leur mères... :-(
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oh my god. why u all saying its horrible? it is not! it is what we need to do for science! we need to do this to get better knowlege of the world, to survive and develop ourselves. try to think about it from this perspective and stop blaming scientists for making experiments that actually make YOUR life and life of your children better. thanks. 
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Harlow secured his own food supply and job security by combining love with torture, the classical definition of which is sadism.
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What an evil and cruel thing to do to any living creature with feelings.  These poor monkeys have had any comfort or quality of life stolen from them just to satisfy the human desire for knowledge.  What selfish animals we are.  Makes me ashamed to be human.
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God that's such a horrid thing to do!
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Did you know that before this controversial experiment, the concept of parental love is NOT as common a knowledge? Many orphanages are understaffed and the kids are basically isolated and ignored, and they grow up to be introverted or sociopathic. So stop ranting about animal cruelty because, however cruel the experiment, it helped the world a lot.
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never mind. apparently teenage girls would love some psychos, as long as they're hot. (look at all the fan mail Jeffrey Dahmer received, and the Rolling Stone cover page of the Boston bomber.)
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Nothing justifies this.  I will never understand your selfish attitude.  Until you have experienced similar suffering to these monkeys you don't get to decide weather or not it's worth it.
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This is not funny ITs sad😭
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I found it interesting that the baby monkey wanted to cling to the woman putting it in the cage more than it wanted either the wire or cloth monkey.  I have found that monkeys are naturally drawn to humans in the same way that humans are drawn to them.
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awww cute videoooooooooooooooooo
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http://news.sciencemag.org/2011/02/monkey-behavior-may-provide-clues-autism everyone interested in these studies for any reason should go to this site! Interesting info found that may be helpful to treat autism , during a study with macaque infants!
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@JohnnyVegas7676 which quote from Suomi? I can see your part of the conversation and your question to someone but not what they were asking you or responding to you with. I was, by coincidence, reading an article about Suomi.
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Check this page I bet the quote may be here if it exists Johnny http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9158292/
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All baby monkeys should be removed from their mothers, then drowned.
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Why don't you fuck yourself better!
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I hope all the people commenting on how cruel this is don't eat animals and are vegetarian /vegan....cause if not, that would be really hypocritical
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+Ellie X Hi Ellie, Like I said, I have no interest in getting into a back and forth with you (especially one with such intellectual arguments as "you're an idiot") so this will be my last post.  One thing I will say though is that my comments were not exclusively aimed at you but also at the original comments on the thread by Kitty Eyez.  I should have pointed that out in the first place.  As I already said in my last post, I agree in theory with your stance, but you (plural) are genuinely coming across as though anyone who isn't vegetarian or vegan has no right to stand up for animal rights too.  That is how it sounds and it is off putting rather than encouraging to others who may be only beginning to realise the cruelties out there.  The angry tone and name calling doesn't help your position either.  As for 1+ my own comment, I didn't even realise I had.  I'm still trying to figure this stuff out.  Not really a forum person usually.  I just got sucked in when I was forced to watch this for college as the issue of animal rights is very close to my heart (although I'm sure you'd argue otherwise).  Thanks for pointing it out though as it is of huge relevance to the debate.
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+Sue C Clearly you do since you keep replying with huge messages with everything I type.. Calling you an idiot was not my argument; you got all offended, stating that you can unnecessarily fund and consume cruelty and torture and be against cruelty and torture.. I pointed out that it simply does not make sense and you sent a huge message back telling me off and ironically accusing me of being angry when you were the one getting offended, and I was simply bringing some logic into it to point out what you said does not make sense because people who claim to be against cruelty and yet pay for it to happen by not being vegan and buying animal products are hypocrites.. it's easy to just go for cruelty-free options instead. Actually I wish people who weren't vegan would stand up for animal rights.. by going vegan. Like saying "I don't like animal cruelty", but then paying for the service of some impoverished immigrant slaughterhouse worker to shove a meat hook in the face of a baby lamb for their dinner won't mean shit to the animals.  It would be great if people were put off by the actual cruelty.. rather than put off of not supporting it because people point out the cruelty, and point out that they are funding and supporting it...... like you're basically saying me pointing out the cruelty will make people want to support it more instead of deciding to not be a part of it, uhh..
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AZ EMBER ROSSZABB AZ ÁLLATNÁL, EZT ENÉLKÜL A KÍSÉRLET NÉLKÜL IS TUDNI KELLENE, HOGY ÉRZELMILEG KÖTŐDIK AZ ANYÁHOZ, AKÁR CSAK AZ EMBER.
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Anyone involved in this kind of cruelty should be put down, very slowly and painfully
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@RandomWierdAwesome94 How is this research valuable? Its not. Why? Because critics like Deborah Blum have called the results "common sense results". That monkeys, very social animals in nature, when placed in isolation emerge badly damaged, and that some recover and some do not. You can apply the same common sense logic to humans who are very social by nature too, you don't need to abuse monkeys to figure that out.
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We also share 61% of a banana's genetic information, therefore, the sharing of genetic information means nothing. I've worked with these things for years, they feel nothing beyond self-preservation. No gratitude, no compassion, no empathy .... nothing. They do nothing unless it benefits them, well over 100 papers have been published on this. A dog shares more emotions with us than any monkey, so don't hop on here with pseudo-intellectual information and tell me how to act.
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I don't think I am smarter than anyone. I simply have an opinion. I respect that yours is different and I have no desire to speak to you in a rude and condescending way. Please treat others in the same way. Also I said this to my psychology tutor and she agreed that it should have been done in a better way. I would never assume I know more than anyone and I most certainly would never act that way so please don't make assumptions about me.
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I think it is disgusting entirely. I DON'T think that every whim justifies this heartless cruelty. *** These so called "studies" MUST BE STOPPED *** And we called - human...
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Of course it would be immoral to separate a human infant from its mother, but there are any number of circumstances in which it happens. If something is similar to something else, it isn't exactly the same. Evolutionary speciation is the reason why species and groups within species look different, and behave in different and often unexpected ways. Why then would you think that behavioural experiments on monkeys are analogous to human behaviour? How did Harlow validate his experiments?
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@FuckDaPolice713 Wrong! She constantly had to move him from one place to another. And i'm the ignoramus?
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This is amazing. Hard to watch the poor monkey, but its needed to learn. its amazing that we have come this far.
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LAWL HAHAHAHAHHA GLASGOW UNI PSYCHOLOGY
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Because this helped change the idea of baby care AND ethics in experiments, this is a great thing. This wasn't our time (unless some grannies are commenting), so we don't truly understand the mentality he was fighting by proving a baby needs security. Of course the babies grow up to be antisocial, depressed and actually unable to mate. I think this showed a good idea about mental illness in mothers too. They were completely unable to care for their offspring.
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emotion, learning and behaviour. From what you said, it would seem that organ-grinders in university departments still need their monkeys. My advice to them is to visit the state run orphanages of Romania, which were established by the former communist regime, and observe for themselves the distressing nature of infant psychopathologies in the real world.
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@Ihatemonkeys666 what is wrong with you...
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This experiment may have helped the psychological world bla bla but so many ethical guidelines were broken. Absolute cruelty.
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as bad as this may be, remember there is some stuff out there that is a LOT worse - and not for science's sake either...
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yeah i know , but i have to have one since i am 6ft8 , make for more area to hit when i forget to duck !
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than a few hours duration while other monkeys of similar background NEVER became depressed, no matter how often or in what circumstances they were subjected to separation.' Harlow himself could only say which animal behavioural responses closely mirrored those of humans AFTER studying the human data. It's knowledge after the fact. Harlow's only 'achievement' was to misdirect the true course of psychology which is commonly described as the study of the HUMAN mind....of perception, thought,
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No life form should be taken away from their mother at young for experiments. You wouldn't like it, so don't do it to someone else. This question, food or security, is not important enough to ruin several lives of living souls.
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I have better things to do then argue semantics with a person who is so caught up in what they WANT to see instead of what is there. You would rather test on human children than monkeys and that makes you, and your arguments, invalid. I believe you are a good person, but good people can turn ugly for the wrong reasons. When my colleagues and I start our experiments at the end of April to expand on Dr. Harlow's work I'll name a monkey after you. Take care.
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I cry every time I watch this.
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I still can't find any of these so called quotes you are citing, provide links or websites to verify please.
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yeah that is pretty fucked now that i think about it
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@beccadray infants dont use attachments as a form of comfort all the time, the adult is also used as a 'safe base' for things such as security, not just comfort., the monkeys were unable to form an attachment as they had no one to form with, and they have missed the 'critical period' according to Lorenz, which is the 32 hours given to allow an animal to form an attachment, if that hasn't happened then the baby animal will not be able to form one and will therefore cling to anyone and anything.
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@hellokitty4me wrong, she only grabbed him for less than a minute which not even give the monkey a chance to be attached to the "crappy assistant". not really pointless shit you ignoramus
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Are you kidding me? Did you just compare Dr. Harlow to Adolf Hitler? The man who killed 6 million Jews? Are you comparing all of those who suffered and died, my own family among them, to some stupid MONKEYS? You need to have your head examined, kid, no normal, rational mind would think that way. This conversation started with you citing a random statistic, then I refuted it with facts and you descended into personal attacks, so I guess I should have seen it coming.
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Isn't the crappy assistant being exposed to the monkey as well, therefore she's also his "mom". He didn't wanna let her go! What a waste of an animals sanity and life. Pointless shit.
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Is Rod Serling narrating? Indeed skullface, the behaviourist theorists believed that food acted as a reinforcer and that was the source of attachment.
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Thiis not only helped Psychology, iit also greatly benefiited Chiild Development Educatiion... However, the experiiment iitself, no matter how benefiiciial stiill came at a great priice... : ( Good thiing iit was just a one tiime experiiment that wiill hopefully never be repeated agaiin... Those poor, poor monkey's, so great was theiir sacrofiice...
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I totally want to hear what other people have to say so thanks for replying. However, I feel that some of the terms you use are very value-laden...
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@LadyKush89 @LadyKush89 Harlow was highly condemed for most of his experiments on animals. We learnt many things about attachment but it came at this awful cost :/ But this experiment is heven compared to an another expeiment he did called the "Pit Of Despair" In which he attempted to replicate clinical depression in monkeys :/ His experiments were highly condemed and still are as being some of the most unethical studys into psychcology ever done.
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@eyexXbitxXyouxX Are you meaning to suggest that if we didn't use monkeys and abuse them...we would have turned on human beings? Do you mean to say the forbidden experiment as it is called, since there are moral and ethical issues when we apply these experiments to humans...nevermind what it does to animals, we would never harm our own kids, lets abuse an apes! Read more about Harlow, he was a damaged individual acting out his internal struggle on his subjects.
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I have such a hard time watching things like this. As a psych major, I understand everything it's done for developmental psychology. As an animal lover, it just kills me to see those poor little monkeys.
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do you understand that this totally changed early childhood development research? i understand that this is an awful thing to do to any animal, but this totally shook our world. We have learned that infants dont only rely on their mothers for food,(like it was thought before) but they also rely on them for comfort and safety. the amount of comfort that mother gives is directly linked to how the child will grow up to be.
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ok well even assuming that all that is true, the general public would not know had it not been for said publicity
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This is beneficial to mankind. Research like this puts pressure on institutions, and makes parts of are mind understandable in a way we can conceive and understand. Agreed, this experiment is fucked up (could had been conducted in a more humane way) however you can go say this guy was a sadistic loser...but what have you done for mankind which puts you on the moral high ground to say that?
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i've learned in school that animal experiments are becoming fewer and fewer for reasons such as cruelty. Yes, I would rather that they test on animals than humans of course, but its still sad. animals can have human-like emotions as well, for example the love and loyalty of dogs for their masters. dolphins are pretty cool as well
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the monkey's didnt become well adjusted aduts, they became very mean when they became parents because they didnt lean how to mother their babies! so sad :(
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This experiment was done YEARS ago. This would be found unethical by today's standards. Don't worry guys, this is not being done anymore.
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@kelvin183 Not actually general psych but child psych for us.
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The Chinese battle w/the results of a social policy not in-tune w/their culture! A shortage of marriageable girls many of whom R emotionally disturbed. They're looking 2 the US 2 learn how we kept a similar problem from becoming as severe as theirs. Harlow had the tenacity 2 do research he KNEW wouldn't B popular & he only hit the tip of the iceberg & thankfully a new gen R following his lead. Sad 2 hear ignorant people w/o a CLUE what they're talking about B so judgmental! Time 2 grow-up!
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I care nothing about what the study proved or disproved. This was cruel and really difficult to watch. I just don't understand.
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To say that it is “unlikely” society would have ever figured out nature vs. nurture without Harlow's research is a bit of a stretch. This research stems from a time in human history where society would segregate people based on the color of their skin. These experiments are nothing more than an example of the ignorant and callous mindset that plagued mankind during the mid nineteenth century.
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Those poor monkeys :( You can see the sadness in its eyes..
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i just never understood what science was trying to prove by depriving these monkeys of the necessary nurture that every creature. The information that people were trying to get from these experiments weren't worth a monkey's life to me, obviously a creature without a mother or any contact with a living thing is going to go insane and psychotic, man needs to stop playing god for a moment. It's sad that Harlows depressing life was taken out on such innocent animals
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Known factors of what behavior? I can't find this quote from Suomi anywhere. Harlow started by testing maternal deprivation but moved to his surrogate mothers quickly thereafter when he was noticing the infants clinging to their cloth diapers. Skinner and Bowlby had some spat over infant contact with it's mother in the first stages of life and many ideas were tossed around but none tested until Harlow came along. Universities everywhere are still doing his experiments, and expanding on them.
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i find this animal experiment a bit cruel, in that the baby monkey is removed from its loving mother. i know i would be sad and anxious if my mother was replaced with an object, one that can't show love, as it cannot exude a loving relationship.
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I don't see why they had to research this in this way. If you look at pets not all pets are attached primarily to the person who feeds them. I feed my pets and only one of them is primarily attached to me. I used to let her sleep in my bed and I spent the most time with her. A natural experiment where nobody was harmed could have been conducted to determine whether food or security is the main reason for attachment between mothers and babies. We are all animals, just different species.
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This is obviously a reproduction of the original Harlow experiment as they were 1957-1963...the baby clung to the lab assistant and obviously preferred her to either of the surrogates - the original experiment did not have this human element at all I believe.
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@tomclowe ~It is far better to remain silent & be thought a fool than to open your mouth & remove all doubt. Yes, Harlow DID become sadistic at the end of his career & I believe he he had a nervous breakdown. His colleagues put an end 2 it, how I do not know. If U R going 2 belittle someone know what U R talking about. Psychiatry was so different then. If they practiced like this 2day they'd be guilty of malpractice. When Harlow ran these awful tests it drastically changed the field. con't
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@Ihatemonkeys666 i hope for the worlds sake that this comment was designed to shock, and that you are really a human being.
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It seems to me that unless some scientist does an experiment then whatever is logical is not valid. The arrogance of science and it's grip on validating common sense is a rather expensive and sad result of our human condition. Maybe such people as Dawkins and others are a problem when they break us down into 'selfish genes' and with no real soul in us except matter and maths?
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i take psychology A-level, and as sad as this video is, this research was very valuable. also occasional, we find feral, abused or isolated children, as it's so rare psychologists spend more time running experiments on how to help the, rather than helping them. they have used the isolated monkey's to look for way's to help over come isolation, for the poor children who have been through this themselves. anyway, experiments like this are much less abusive today.
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those poor things are going crazy .. its not right
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No, this study did not provide any insight with regards to depression. It has to do with mother and child attachment development. Not individual mental states.
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This clips proves that monkey toddlers prefer warm and soft over cold and hard, Nothing else
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in my opioion it has nothing to do with the cloth the other on while suckling he is watching or looking up bonding with sight more then anything !!!!
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One thing you all need to know about Harlow was he used descriptive terms alot, like the "pit of despair" and the "rape rack" to describe his inventions too, or the different devices used. The pit of despair was the inverted pyramid, and Harlow himself said this was devised this way because "that's how it feels when you are depressed". The rape rack was a means of tying female monkeys into the typical mating position for forced procreation. This man suffered depression, his wife died in 1970s
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Thats f$#@d up.....poor Rhesus monkey :0(
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