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Can Philanthropy Create Poverty? (ProteanView)

by ProteanView • 36,660 views

Poverty is relevant and relative. It's about perception... within reason, anyhow. Disparity causes poverty to 'dawn on' us. Our tunnel vision forces us to see charity on an individual basis. By...

Do you not see how these people are talking to you? Dude, stop turning against your own people... look at these white racists below here... wtf? You want to be on their team? There is never anything wrong with helping someone... look at the nice house you're in. Do you think you got there from birth on your own? We are babies, who cannot survive without help. We all get help dude... you better hope you're never homeless
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Stop this vid at 5 seconds. If He is not proof that NIGGERS are a direct off spring of APES! Look at that deep set eyes...And, that NOSE- those flared nostrils!!! APE! Fuck off you NIGGER Fag.Who told you that you are entitled to an opinion-let alone the right to express it on the web? I see that you are up to your old tricks; using  closets or BATHROOMS of office buildings, where you were sent to CLEAN THE TOILETS, to make vids! Does your employer know of this? Do the people - who's Wi-Fi- you use - know? Stealing internet service is a FELONY; not that a Felony conviction has ever deterred your (people) COUGH COUGH COUGH!  I am going to make it my mission to see this information is forwarded to the proper channels. Now, BOY, get back to doing your Janitorial tasks- get that bathroom clean. Make it nice for the WHITE professionals, who, deservingly, have the LEGAL right to be in there to enjoy nice sanitary TOILETS! And, where is that PORN vid you did....where you take a BUFF ASS NEGRO COCK in the ass while sucking on another? I like the finale- where the cream is spewed onto that APE face of yours!
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Jesus, man. What the FUCK. This guy is a better man than you will probably EVER be. He might be an ape, but you're goddamn TRASH. straight up worthless garbage. edit: we don't even need to see you. We can Smell you.
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Is this lisping black QUEER janitor still using Wi Fi from the buildings he was sent to clean? Fuck- when will they learn their place? Is this the "CLOSET" where you did that porn shoot????? Where you take a BUFF ASS NEGRO COCK in the ass while sucking on another? I like the finale- where the cream is spewed onto that APE face of yours...SEXXXXY!
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another APE who does not know his place or limitations!
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Great video and a great topic. I can't seem to find an article linking clinical depression and poverty levels so if any of you can then PM me. Im a little curious if you think education is a better way to help these countries. I read a book for my cultural anthropology class about someone headed down into deep Africa to teach about malnutrition in children. Do you believe that kind of philantropy would cause a feeling of poverty?
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"Click Language" and the San Bushmen People oldest people geneticaly on earth. ancient tribe of people their distant relatives left Africa , from them stem every colour, creed and nationality, their numbers are dwindling and soon could be gone. They have an incredible language, they speak with clicks and other sounds.
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shit, never thought of it like that. good vid man
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Some who are poor can find a way to find happiness or the dice may tumble just right so they have a happy life, but I think more often the reality is poor people suffer much more in many ways in comparison with people who have plenty of money. All people suffer but if you have money & resources that suffering can be diminished & if you don't it can be made much worse.People in the middle suffer a lot also, this is related to economics & class & other dynamics...no suffering should ridiculed
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I think we should help the bushman, cause they are genetically the oldest humans and their anccestors left Africa, and modern africans, westerners and asians are gentically related to them. they are thought to have the oldest language using various clicking sound made with their tongue combined with constanants.
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But this effect is unevitavle. Say, figuratively, we help a community in extreme poverty, a community that KNOWs its poor. No food, illness, and overpopulation. If we were to help them (buying wells, housing, roads- nessesities in every culture), what will the richer, but nessearily out of poverty, communities react? This is inevitable, although it can be lessened with understanding of thier culture, it cannot be eliminated unless the would is100% uniform in it's living custom (also impossible)
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Real change can only begin with educating a few and having those few spread knowledge to the many. Instead of building them a house, teach them how to build it themselves.
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It's a shame Ayn Rand (real name Alyssa Rosenbaum) wasn't one of those six million shoved into a furnace.
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"If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor" "Sit Down" by James
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@ForImperium Rich people get their by working hard. Their children are the ones who pay for that because they are spoon-fed everything in their life instead of being diligent and working themselves, and that's their parents fault (in general).
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modernization generates poverty and differences.
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MLK and Malcolm X both said charity was one of the main reasons for problems in the black community.
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You are describing market forces, supply and demand in action!
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Great points. Westerners have a standard of life that ultimately is reliant on resources being in exhaustible. Most western people work very hard to maintain a standard of living that is an illusion of wealth. Most of us live pay check to paycheck. People who live off the grid but who have their basic needs met, such as roof, clean water, and food, who is to say that existence is any less desirable than the western need to acquire material possessions.
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Good stuff here. I hope that the aid is going to the poor in these societies. I have never felt certain I understood the mentality of the chariatble. Do they give out of guilt or a desire to help or for the recognition of being a "good person" in the eyes of others. It may be a mix of all three.
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Quite right. In this country it's really unfortunate that the measure of success is in dollars and material gain. Then other people and cultures are measured against that barometer. That's a destructive quality and one that lies more than a little. Success is the peace found from living Universal principles and contentment that can't be found by the ownership of status symbols from the consumerist culture. Success is not having the mental encumberance of all of that "stuff".
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"Altruism is never really about the good of those being "helped". Cynical american tosh pal.
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Hey, man. Thanks for the friend add. There's a good video out there of the comedian Louis CK on Conan talking about how this generation is a bunch of brats. One other thing you might want to look into with regard to helping people is some stuff by Daniel Quinn. He's very much into questioning and examining civilzation. The point he tries to make is that just giving people food is not a very good answer either, because it just lets them raise their population.
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those things have been in existence since the dawn of man. Your point is absolutely incorrect. History argues so.
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I think most people live in societies where there is some imbalance in wealth anyway. If some people within a class in that society suddenly got a leg up purely out of luck, I doubt their former peers would ostrecise them for it, people don't frown upon people that win the lottery do they?
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Poverty is unnecessary. It is greed that causes poverty. Poverty to me is wondering how you will feed your family today. Its wondering if you can afford to go to the doctor. That's not an illusion or a way of perceiving. That is reality for millions of people all over the world.
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I've read that, I didn't take that message from it, but the more I think about it, the more I think you're right. Though I'd say the part set in Paris is more about how difficult - almost impossible - to escape poverty.
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phm618 put it very well. I am also stunned and wish I could find people to have these discussions with. I wonder what you would call such a group ???
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You have a great mind, A great thinking mind, thats has a high understanding od what things are and how they interect. You would be a perfect PRESIDENT. The world needs people like you as a leader.
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Interesting take, ProteanView. Not sure I agree completely, but certainly partly with you. You're right. It's in Nature that you simply cannot help everyone, and yeah, if, as you put it, you helped only a handful(built them houses, etc) then yeah, you're right.
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You have very interesting & thoughtful views, thank you. :) You're right, capitalism and the aim to have material wealth is mostly based on artifically stimulating the lowest impulses of "need" (which may not have any factual basis).
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This reminds me of the thought sometime that I think we'd be better off as cave men and women...or similiar since there aren't too many caves around here.
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I agree~that it would be better to help the whole community by making sure there was an education system in place for everybody. Like it would be more useful to build a hundred basic schools where thousands can go & be educated & feel equal, than to build one shiny school where just a few elite can go~
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Altruism is the assertion that if one is not helping other people then they aren't good people. This means that an altruist must actively seek those to help in order to fulfill their moral obligations and must continue helping people until they suffer a tangible detrimental side effect of that help. Altruism is the ethic of self-sacrifice, and it is self-destructive as the word self-sacrifice implies. It is also destructive of the other. Protean's point is that we come in & give "aid" to those
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hes got a point, he seems smarter than i thought.
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Amazing..!This is what i think too..poverty is relevant and if wealth was only created as a means of becoming happier and we now know that its not an panacea to happiness either, we should not think thats the solution for others problems! Moreover charity is the worst vulgarity invented by man. In a world where everything belongs to everyone equally, religion and culture has divided the wealth as an reward for work, in reality we r no one to give, its everyone birth right to take from the tree!
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Did this concept of "helping" originate with religious missionaries? ...people from centuries ago tasked to "bring to the savage the Word of God?" There seem to be a few aboriginal Peoples that continue to reject the modern for the traditional, but their numbers are few considering. I've yet to learn of one tribe, in recent history, that completely rejects modern conveniences such as clothing, needles, knives, filtered cigarettes, pots & pans, motors for their watercraft, etc.
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Thats a very acurate viewpoint. Most charity is to ease guilt of being rich here! I have seen the most content people in poorer countries. In the west most people are confused greedy selfish people!!
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@uwmbigb I fully agree with this setiment and the only way I have found to bring it to fruition thus far is to open the discussion to those around you and those you meet in the day to day. Many are close minded and many are open continue with knowledge truth and wisdom peace
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yeah, it's one thing to do but not the only thing. Like you said, upper income people tend to have smaller families. So I think one of thing you could do to curb population growth is educating ppl and having a framework in which they can improve their standard of living and real incomes. Of course, that isn't something that can be done very well with foreign aid. It has to be done by their own homelands respecting private property and allowing enough economic freedom.
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This is a good interview I totally agree with this. When you give you cripple an individual you have to teach.
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i never looked at it that way. very good insight.
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when Ramana Maharshi was give a gift (candy or food) he would not accept it unless all present could have a share as well.
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... Other people coming in and telling these people that the way they are living is wrong and failing to install the necessary infrastructure to support the values they are instilling on the natives.
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Government handouts perpetuate and create poverty. Give a man a fish and he will ask for another; teach a man to fish and he will feed himself for life. Read the "Gospel of Wealth".
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@redbonegal This video has nothing to do with race and yet you go on and on about it. Why is it that black peeps can only understand a video if they make it about blackness? Listen to the video again sister
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Protean, I am quite emotional watching this video, because I have shared these views for months now and it is refreshing to see that someone else share them. I am actually writing an article, being a British citizen from an African background, i was shocked to find that my fathers family lived a wonderful life in the village, because as you have pointed out, they were not aware of their poverty-through a western prespective-, if anything I am time poor compared to them...
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I never would have thought of it like this. I sincerely thank you.
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This leads to the idea that much of the social problems of the world are caused by political forces, and these are politics on a global scale. Instead of looking for things we can do to help, perhaps we should look for things we can stop doing because they hurt other parts of the world.
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After the Russian revolution, 26 million people wre killed by Stalin (their own Armaggedon). These were senior engineers, army officers, and dissloyal workers. If you consider yourself "indispensable", you are probably right. But ENYONE who can be replaced, is either gonna be a slave or dead. They may well exterminate huge parts of the people.
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Unabombers manifesto... it won't let me post a link, but wikipedia has a good layout of Ted Kaczynski's work. Its exactly what you are saying about conveniences creating inconveniences...
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@uwmbigb that what churches were supposed to be, waaay back in the day
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i don't remember how i stumbled on your videos but they're incredibly engaging and always bring up points which can spread out into other pools of thought for me to think about, even if i'm not always on the same page. thank you for your sound logic and enlightening views.
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but the real reason people give to the very poor is to feel more rich.
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The disparity is there before they arrive otherwise there wouldn't be a need for charity. The problem is giving a fish rather than teaching, ignoring the political issues or "inconveniences" of teaching how to fish.
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You know what? I actually never thought about it from that angle before, that's a very good point. However I don't think it will keep me from wanting to help people though, especially the starving children that's didn't ask to be born into such a shitty situation.
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hollywoodartchick Your car example nails the point I'm trying to make. A toy or luxury becomes a need.
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The ? that isn't being addressed is why we have a system which needs philanthropy & charity in the 1st place? - a system that allows charity is a system that already exist as inequality - if a person isn't asking that ?, they aren't REALLY interested in an actual change, but only feeling 'good' - charity is shortsighted, not taking All into consideration or the potential outflows which as you mention, creates even wider gaps of inequality. The solution is an Equal Money System - do the research.
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What you have to remember is the fact that the things you mention were not necessarily prevalent until other people who thought they were doing them a favor came in and started messing with their traditional subsistence strategies. This is exactly what ProteanView is talking about: what happened to MAKE the situation of starvation, disease and war?
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Westerners - they live in their own perception, they don't give a shit or even bother to understand your culture and circumstance. All they know is that if it's not theirs or lacking their flavor and influence, then it must be hella bad and therefore must be saved. There are only two kinds of people in this world now: Westerner or NOT Westerner. The world map is divided into a scale of how "westernized" a country is. Whatever outside the category is listed under "poverty/underdeveloped".
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@uwmbigb i know i'm being a nitpicky asshole here, but Ernest Hemingway bettered himself and understood life around him aided by, or perhaps even due to, *drum roll* "getting wasted everynight."
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Really good video. I am not a specific philosophy either, that I subscribe to. I sort of think education and work create wealth though, at least in America. Especially education, in America. Creating wealth I am not sure can be done through a redistribution of wealth, because wealth can only be created through one's education and work. Nice video though.
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Tosh is a well understood British term. And my counter argument has been made and summed up in my "one shot rejoinder": eg you're whole assumption is wrong. See the comment below for an example of what I'm talking about..
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if success and greed were not the motivating factor of american lives then every1 would have a fair shot to live or survive. i find it interesting that all some people do is pose more problems instead of trying to analyze what these youtube authors are saying and realizing that they for the most part are right. all u ppl do is make excuses....if u understood what he is saying and were not biased u would agree...denial is a disease and im sure most of u are just like this....send em money...lol
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True that good intentions often give bad results. All too often money and projects given to poor nations are wasted or badly planned, or pilfered by local authorities, to the point that they accomplish nothing. Still there are projects, like microbanking, that actually are more than photo-ops for liberals. Also, written laws (not arbitrary Sharia), land ownership, and other basic freedoms are shown to improve conditions the world over, more even than the donation of money.
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@NathanAmbrose42 Very true. For most the meaning of life is working. People back home quite literally work themselves to the day they die. But lack of wealth inspires one to develop a certain nature. The poor people I know are some of the most motivated individuals I've met; they have discipline; a strong work ethic and ambition. The wealthy can still instill that a good days hard work is rewarding. The Germans have a saying; Albeit Macht Frei; work liberates you. This should be universal.
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Lets not send "rich" people in Africa food, they wont know they are starving.
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I agree poverty is very relative. I come from a "poor country" (as they called it), in Europe in the metro platforms they have pictures/images of children from "poor countries" in a very bad "shape" and europeans think oh look at those poor "we are rich" by showing these images we are only increasing the self-steem of europeans (in this case), i dont like my people on those images, why they dont show their own poors???
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True, it doesn't work to just help a few people rise above the rest. But in countries where they don't have food and water, something needs to be done. Educate them to grow better crops. Teach them to provide for themselves.
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Your a cool ass guy ProtenanView. hah-
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I agree, I was going to mention that this was along the thinking of Ayn Rand, but you did that yourself, towards the end. Giving people a living isn't of value, teaching people how to make a living is. That's the difference between welfare and education.
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Water treatment == good! Especially when it comes from stopping a neighboring country from polluting. Building Factories to create 'jobs' == bad. Believing that jobs create self worth is the product of mind control. Not some spooky sci-fi mind-control, but the old fashioned Government. This rational belittles those who's daily routine doesn't fit into the 'job' criteria. Though in north america we are taught that fallacy in school. It's 1 of the things you need to 'unlearn' in the real world.
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Last year was the first year more money was invested in Africa than was donated. The average income has doubled as a result. I'm glad you brought this up. :)
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Another point I want to address is the comment, What we know is what we see around us. About a year ago, I met someone who grew up in a family of wealth. His stated that there is no such thing as the middle class. His reasoning is that there are two types of people, people who work, and people who don't need to work because they have money. I tried to convince him that there are people who don't work and have no money and they are the poor, and the people who work and no money are middle class.
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proteanview, Perhaps micro-loans are a better idea, they are smaller scale & usually made to the women doing small cottage industries. Also the women will use it more responsibly & the money will not find its way to gambling etc. I can't agree that ignorance is always bliss, because some people in poverty are poor because the rich and powerful will not allow them much opportunity. "Charity" that empowers a large area & number of people, in subtle but powerful ways is the best type.
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I volunteered at a food bank for a few years where I learned that some of the people who do those charitable things have weird motivations. They actually seem to hate the clients and are just there to exert dominance over the poor people. I plan to write an essay about this someday.
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accept here in lies problem protean. Its not done just out of a sense of guilt by the powers that be. Take chilli, the largest copper producer in the WORLD we take there copper turn it into Hifi's plasma screens and laptops yet they remain poor.... We NEEDED them. Once we got past the age of steam we needed the 3rd world. oil, paper, coffee... So that's why we have always been linked. we damaged them. Do really think they would starve and grow coffee at the same time if we were not there?
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external manifestations of success are poor indicators of a persons integrity or worth. It is unfortunate that in the US people have been led to believe that a person is successful if they drive an expensive car or live in a valuable house or wear expensive cloths, when in reality these mean nothing. I see very nice cars around all the time but I don't want the debt associated with them so I'm not really influenced by that mentality. I guess I never have been...which I consider fortunate.
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I am offended by your view on this. Some of the kids we have helped have gone on to become teachers and tech industry employees as well as many leaders of their society. So, if you can't build for all, don't build for any?? what?? I believe some is better than none. To educate and give a child knowledge, whether it be one kid or one thousand kids amongst hundreds of millions of kids is a blessing to be thankful for. You are a speculator at best. Africa has the most problems of all continents.
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sorry dawg, put me in the don't agree column. I know you are only trying to help me but giving a brother a laig up is absolutely necessary and citing human weakness involved in the reaction if that really happens is no excuse to sit idly by and watch suffering. We as 'mericans tip the whole equalibrium everyday, everywhere... Good luck
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What you're saying here boils down to, "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." I'm a big Ayn Rand fan here.
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well,it's like what Laozi say."give a man a fish,you feed him for a day.teach a man to fish,you feed him for a lifetime."the only way to save africa and rural south america nation is education and then job creation.
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You are Sooo right. I see this when I travel. Sometimes, when people from affluent countries travel overseas, they size up other people using as a yardstick what considered "poor," in their own countries. This is serious in thought and deed because I've seen people in other countries get highly insulted when a visitor talks and acts toward them as if they were "poor," when in their own countries they might be considered middle class or even rich. (You're real smart!)
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@uwmbigb Start it yourself darling, Don't wait for anything to happen ok. Being the architect of your own life is wonderful. Make sure to find a hall with clean toilets and comfy chairs. Have small nibbles and juice. Or ask people to bring their own refreshments. Begin a page on Facebook. Tell people the address and time. You'll be surprised how creating your own world can be so simple. Enjoy it. x
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Ran into this video again, thought I'd comment because it reminds me of a blog I read today, discussing approaches to philanthropy. The gist of it was that when Westerners go into a non-Western society, and focus solely on individuals, what with job training, welfare, or whatnot, there are negative unintended consequences. On the other hand, organizations that deal more holisticaly with communities and cultures as a whole tend to have better results at achieving their objectives.
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Just a thought. Poverty is not dependant on philanthropy. Philanthropy is dependant on poverty.
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This is really a fascinating comment. This is a very interesting line of thought. I look forward to looking in on some of your other videos. Well done!
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A very interesting video. What you are saying about looking for things to do is similar to the idea of "surrogate activities" mentioned in the Unabomber manifesto. Personally I take a dim view of charity generally..but I'm horrible so its probably just me.
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I agree with your general point that generosity can create disparity.However, it does make a difference in the lives of the few that can be helped,and provided we are able to offer assistance voluntarily and not in a coerced manner,I do not see anything wrong with that.Having said that, there is be a better way of helping people where they need it other than giving them a hand-out. As the old saying goes, give a man a fish,you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish,you feed him for a lifetime.
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Charity is something that generally decent people do naturally when people around them are suffering. It is usually motivated out of the recognition that alleviating the suffering of other humans has an intrinsic value. But it is not a moral absolute. Charity is something which people do voluntarily for others who agree to receiving it, it is a voluntary interaction between two parties, where both understand the values in play.
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PART2: There are children in Africa that tie their jackets and sweaters around their stomachs so tight to try and trick their bodies into thinking that they are full ( they do it to take away the hunger pains) that sounds pretty horrible i dont see how anyone wouldn't want to feed that/those child(ren)
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Problem is when we are aware of how little people have in the world, we find we want to help them. But it always ends the same in that we can't help everyone from poverty.
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Equal Money for All from Birth for an Equal Opportunity of a Dignified Life. Equal Money for All from Birth to stop the fight for survival.
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This is very enlightening. For instance, I am filipino. And the export in the Philippines are humans. We go to different countries and send money to wives, husbands, parents, children, and siblings. But not only can this create a disparity for those who dont have people that send money. But I also believe that sending money does not create wealth for the country. Sending money doesnt create jobs or raise the standard of living. We need to export goods and services.
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