Conversations: Episode 18 w/ pdballiet - Eros and Agape in a Self-Loving Cosmos (part 1-2)

Phil (pdballiet) joins Jon and Matt for a conversation. part 1 of 2

Category:

Education

Tags:

• eros
• agape
• pdballiet
• philosophy

[DoNotGod]

So it's OK for me to hope you get gored by a walrus? ... and die on the beach being mocked by a peanut butter and jelly sandwich? consider it done, you people are too loopy to live.

[hyperseauton]

I like Phil taking notes, the lecturing tone and the passion. Takez lots of energy.

I like Matt's compassion and Jon's somewhat openly skepticism of the voice of the teacher.

[GeorgeCottier]

This is fucking amazing.

[pdballiet]

@trick0171

I think you misunderstand me here. I believe you are making a pre trans fallacy. I do not mean that the polar bear dying of hunger is beautiful in some abstract suburban way that avoids "real problems."

What I mean is more along the lines of ken wilber saying that you have to understand the entire world is perfect first, and ONLY THEN can you begin to go about changing it. You can only begin to love absent desire, need, will, or seeing that the beloved is worthy or in need of love.

[MaBu888]

Venus conjunxit Saturnum in minutos 30. Hahahae

[trick0171]

It would be my guess that many others would make the pre-trans fallacy with the scenario you gave, as the "trans" part is not immediately obvious.

Thanks,

Trick

[trick0171]

@pdballiet,

That helps me understand the perspective you are addressing (so thanks), but at the same time I think "transpersonal states" are illusionary. Still it helps to know that this is where you are coming from, though for the rationalist such as myself it appears a contrivance and "too poetic" to be in the realm of any serious philosophy.

(MORE)

[MaBu888]

This is clear enough, thanks!

[pdballiet]

ken wilber:

'the paradox is, is that you first have to realize and feel deep down that everything in the world, indeed the world itself, is perfect. and then, from that realization, you then have to work effortlessly to change it!'

and

'work but do not be attached to the fruits of your work'

(both of these quotes speak to the kind of love that encompasses suffering in its cocoon)

[pdballiet]

mabu, you got me. yes. it is a love beyond and including the suffering. let us not make a pre-trans fallacy (trick0171)