Arkle 1965 & 1966 Cheltenham Gold Cups

Arkle 1965 & 1966 Cheltenham Gold Cups

Category:

Sports

Tags:

• Arkle
• 1965
• 1966
• Cheltenham
• Gold
• Cups

[MrAddyginsh]

@alipitogen I obviously will side with Flyingbolt, but if Arkle would have been better, then Timeform, allotting Arkle 212, and Flyingbolt 210, hence a 2lb difference, is spot on. You're reference to Mill House is spot on, he, in my opinion, was one unlucky horse, for the timing of his career. But as much as I think Dreaper's 2 stars are the best 2 horses ever, I can spare a thought for Denman with 3 Gold Cup, runner-up positions.

[alipitogen]

@MrAddyginsh We're on the same page. I'd have loved to have seen Arkle and Flyingbolt compete. I'd like also to be slightly older too, b.1963.(Only ever reason I wish that!) Mill House was a champion too, of course, and what I always say to myself is what if Mill House had preceded Arkle, by say four years? What if he had 3 Gold Cups won and Arkle had beaten a faded champion.Then we would not even have the true answer to Arkle v Mill House.That thought leads me to side with Arkle.

[MrAddyginsh]

@alipitogen I know that we will never know who was better round the 26 furlongs of the Gold Cup, but what gets me is that younger people now only tend to know of Arkle and not Flyingbolt, and I believe that he is without question racing's greatest unsung hero. To be honest, I think sometimes things like what happened with the 2 horses are just meant to happen, because we are never meant to know. Must have been sore for Dreaper to accept what happened to the best 2 horses ever.

[alipitogen]

@MrAddyginsh I won't strongly disagree.Your argument deserves great respect because you can obviously recognize greatness.The case of Flyingbolt was so unfortunate but, as you will surely agree, we can never now know.There have been also cases of flawed geniuses who might have challenged Arkle. I would like to ask the question 'how far would Arkle have been in front of Captain Christy in the 1975 King George?' I have to assume Arkle would have won but CC was extraordinary that day.

[MrAddyginsh]

@alipitogen Here's how I would see it, career achievements, Arkle is best, but in terms of ability, I would have to give the nod to Flyingbolt.

[alipitogen]

I think I'll adopt Sir Peter O Sullevan's strategy when people get carried away with the here and now and doubt Arkle's vast superiority.He just allows himself a little knowing smile and says as little as possible.

[alipitogen]

@MrAddyginsh Thanks for clarifying.You might be right but I'm not sure. Arkle did hurdle early on but strangely enough he was a late developer and his class wasn't yet evident then.

[MrAddyginsh]

@alipitogen No, what I said, was that I don't believe that Arkle wasn't as good over hurdles as Flyingbolt, and he may have struggled to run both so credibly wihtin 24 hours of each other, but I do not doubt for a second that Arkle could have won a Champion Chase.

[TissuePrices]

@alipitogen well ofcourse its easy to look like that against donkeys, thats the point im making, arkle did it in a weak era which makes him look better then he is

[alipitogen]

@MrAddyginsh Do you doubt that Arkle could have won a Champion Chase? If Dawn Run could beat a recent 2Mile Champion at Punchestown in April 1986 , and if Desert Orchid a couple of years later could humble the contemporary 2milers at Ascot, I would see a similar task as no great challenge to Arkle. Flyingbolt was extraordinary but I harbour a sneaking suspicion that, places swapped, Arkle would have won that Champion Hurdle, probably Dawn Run fashion, except perhaps by further.

[alipitogen]

@TissuePrices That is an astounding comment. Look at other Gold Cup winners approaching the line and then look back at Arkle. Look particularly at their actions near the line. I'd say you could probably look at all of them and no other horse's action remains as extended as Arkle's up that stamina examining hill. Mention whoever you like and you will still see a more scraping action and never such an effortlessly turf-eating stride.

[alipitogen]

Just look at Arkle rounding the home turn.Was that really a horse?This is Steve Ovett winning an Olympic 1500 metres, this is Michael Flatley pointing to his feet in Riverdance.The feckin' Son of a Bright Cherry is looking around to see if he knows anyone in the stands. That's a flat out gallop for mere mortals, and feck sake look at it, 3 miles on the clock in a Gold Cup and he's bloody idling! He's bored! What other horse has pissed home in a Gold Cup in that manner?

[alipitogen]

@pmus1 Good one! Flying Bolt would beat Kauto Star that way alright -but Arkle would have won with McCrirrick having a row with Ted Walsh on his back!

[pmus1]

flyingbolt was probably better than arkle it was just that arkle was dreapers favourite. flyingbolt won the champion chase then a day later a close 3rd in the ch hurdle then won the irish national thats just unheard of today...please dont try to compare the likes of kauto star to these true legends...flyingbolt would beat kauto star with mcCririck on his back.

[44Rabbie]

Arkle was not a plodder. He still holds the course record at Sandown set when he was carrying 12st 7lbs.

[TissuePrices]

2 plodders look how slow they went.

[TissuePrices]

Kauto star would have destroyed these plodders by a furlong, arkle incredibly slow.

[bhoy029]

@burkhillcomedy 2 great horses, as was millhouse, flying bolt needed to race against arkle and beat him to prove he was the best all of time and he never did it.

[MrAddyginsh]

@burkhillcomedy There maybe doubts as to who was better. But there's no doubt that Flyingbolt was more versatile, possessed more stamina, and arguably was better at conceding weight. Like Arkle could've won the Champion Chase, and run a gallant 3rd in the Champion hurdle less than 24 hours later. LOL.

[burkhillcomedy]

everybody that says arkle was the best ever and nothing holds a candle to him is been very unfair,flyingbolt for one was as good if not better and he proved it several times

[ThefightingCelt]

@kealano123 Arkle's poor jumping? Please explain. Arkle was a magnificient jumper and seldom made mistakes. He never fell in any of the 26 chases he contested.

[Mrnick62P]

Agreed,it would have been in the top 3 races of all time,still we'll never know....Arkle would have won!!

[kealano123]

one of the saddest things about watcing arkle is the fact that tom dreaper never and wouldnt race stablemate flyingbolt against arkle he goes beyond the term unsung he was the only horse to carry a record handicap of 212 along with arkle, never fell, and due to arkles poor jumping he was certainly the only horse to possibly beat arkle or atleast shake him up im not trying to take anything away from arkle he will always be remembered as the greatest steeplechaser of all time

[jkamwal2]

@philip1mus Best mate had health scares as a foal and was saved for his races. He gave 20lbs finishing 1/2 length behind in second. Arkle gave 35lbs to a horse which finished in second and 3rd in '65 and '65.

Nothing was close to Arkle

[Mrnick62P]

at level weight no horse then & now could hold a candle to Himself,a true class act