I leave you with two points, the first is the church is falible, to suggest otherwise isa dangerous arrogant heresy that risks the soul, the reason for this is that the earthly heirarchy is human who are falible in our very nature, God guides but we often ignore from pope to the ordinary man.
the other is the pathetic excuses for ceritan refusals being the tradition of the church, again man decides we hope on Gods advice but we have a habit of ignoring Him so tradition is irrelevant
Something for you to consider, Churches official position is not the same as the Truth but man made opinion, we are fallible. Which has gone towards the differing denomonations, whislt I beleive they ultimatly come from God if the Catholic church was perfect people would not have become disillusioned with them. The other phrase that causes concern is the tradition of the church, again man not God made, so irrelevant.
that it's actions have been nothing more than the school ground bully boy for a very long time e.g. (but by no means limited to) the Ordinariate, a disgraceful attempt to kick someone when they're down, I learned when I was 3 that this was a disgusting and dishonourable act without ever committing the offence, it's a shame your spiritual leader did not learn this vital lesson.
Yes I know why the Anglican church formed or more to the point ONE of the reasons, it WOULD NOT AND COULD NOT have progressed if there was huge dissent for the actions of the papacy (and thats before we get into the dangerous and heretical nonesense of the infalability of the Pope). The Catholic Church needs to grow up with its approach towards other demoninations and realise that God created these demoninations to cater for the differences in His people AND
You have presented what you wish to beleive, whatis different from the truth and certianly VERY different from the Truth, which comes from God. I am sorry to say that the Roman Catholic Church was not created by Christ but largely by the Roman (hint's in the name really, another oddity is that Rome is considered a Holy city, the only reason it gained this status is by being the centre of the Roman world and therefore as seat of power the Catholic church moved there) state ,
I have only presented the Truth and the Church's official position. If you refuse to debate I Dont mind, but I would like to know this person you speak of who can "dance circles around" this position. I am open to being proved wrong, if that were possible, and I dont think it is because the Church has spoken on the issue.
Also, I have made no ad hom attacks without considering ALL evidence as you suggest. I have read both Mortalium Animos and Saepius Officio many years ago, and I have even read them in the orginal Latin and I stand firm in my agreement with the Church on this matter. I can't understand why you ask for an apology - perhaps you are ecumenically minded and I have offended you by presenting the only official infallible teaching of the Church on the issue.
Just incase you are confused: My opinion is that of the Churchs official and "for all time" infallible pronouncement on the matter.
This official position hasn't change - and being infallible it cant. Also the opinion of "the Vatican" as you see it is not always that of the Catholic Church, as you may be aware- eg Mortalium Animos.
What orders were accepted without re-ordination? I would be interested to find out.
@iotaunam1 You have made your personal opinions clear, but they are not necessarily that of the Vatican. I have read AC -and- SO (you?), I have read the CCC, I've seen ring giving and kissing by Popes, I know of the Nag's Head Fable, I know of the ordinals of both churches, and I know of receptions into the Vatican without reordination. You also give no indication to debate but only -repeat- without looking at ALL evidence. No apology for the ad homs and attacks either. Would this change at all?
@iotaunam1
I leave you with two points, the first is the church is falible, to suggest otherwise isa dangerous arrogant heresy that risks the soul, the reason for this is that the earthly heirarchy is human who are falible in our very nature, God guides but we often ignore from pope to the ordinary man.
the other is the pathetic excuses for ceritan refusals being the tradition of the church, again man decides we hope on Gods advice but we have a habit of ignoring Him so tradition is irrelevant
Padre471atc 8 months ago
@iotaunam1
Something for you to consider, Churches official position is not the same as the Truth but man made opinion, we are fallible. Which has gone towards the differing denomonations, whislt I beleive they ultimatly come from God if the Catholic church was perfect people would not have become disillusioned with them. The other phrase that causes concern is the tradition of the church, again man not God made, so irrelevant.
Padre471atc 8 months ago
@iotaunam1
that it's actions have been nothing more than the school ground bully boy for a very long time e.g. (but by no means limited to) the Ordinariate, a disgraceful attempt to kick someone when they're down, I learned when I was 3 that this was a disgusting and dishonourable act without ever committing the offence, it's a shame your spiritual leader did not learn this vital lesson.
Padre471atc 8 months ago
@ iotaunam1
Yes I know why the Anglican church formed or more to the point ONE of the reasons, it WOULD NOT AND COULD NOT have progressed if there was huge dissent for the actions of the papacy (and thats before we get into the dangerous and heretical nonesense of the infalability of the Pope). The Catholic Church needs to grow up with its approach towards other demoninations and realise that God created these demoninations to cater for the differences in His people AND
Padre471atc 8 months ago
@iotaunam1
You have presented what you wish to beleive, whatis different from the truth and certianly VERY different from the Truth, which comes from God. I am sorry to say that the Roman Catholic Church was not created by Christ but largely by the Roman (hint's in the name really, another oddity is that Rome is considered a Holy city, the only reason it gained this status is by being the centre of the Roman world and therefore as seat of power the Catholic church moved there) state ,
Padre471atc 8 months ago
@viewering1234
I have only presented the Truth and the Church's official position. If you refuse to debate I Dont mind, but I would like to know this person you speak of who can "dance circles around" this position. I am open to being proved wrong, if that were possible, and I dont think it is because the Church has spoken on the issue.
iotaunam1 1 year ago
@viewering1234
Also, I have made no ad hom attacks without considering ALL evidence as you suggest. I have read both Mortalium Animos and Saepius Officio many years ago, and I have even read them in the orginal Latin and I stand firm in my agreement with the Church on this matter. I can't understand why you ask for an apology - perhaps you are ecumenically minded and I have offended you by presenting the only official infallible teaching of the Church on the issue.
iotaunam1 1 year ago
@viewering1234
Just incase you are confused: My opinion is that of the Churchs official and "for all time" infallible pronouncement on the matter.
This official position hasn't change - and being infallible it cant. Also the opinion of "the Vatican" as you see it is not always that of the Catholic Church, as you may be aware- eg Mortalium Animos.
What orders were accepted without re-ordination? I would be interested to find out.
iotaunam1 1 year ago
@iotaunam1 You have made your personal opinions clear, but they are not necessarily that of the Vatican. I have read AC -and- SO (you?), I have read the CCC, I've seen ring giving and kissing by Popes, I know of the Nag's Head Fable, I know of the ordinals of both churches, and I know of receptions into the Vatican without reordination. You also give no indication to debate but only -repeat- without looking at ALL evidence. No apology for the ad homs and attacks either. Would this change at all?
viewering1234 1 year ago
@viewering1234
I have made the Church's position Clear.
If you want to debate indepth by PM, or your friend I will be happy to.
iotaunam1 1 year ago