The traditional knife defences VS reality

This is an edited clip from a Street Combat System knife self protection seminar. To show people how dangerous and suicidal it is to try and fight with a person wielding a knife, using traditional Karate, Aikido, Jujitsu and other grappling or trapping style methods. Students were taught how to use a knife the way most people do in street stabbings and in prison stabbing incidents, for about 5-10 mins. They were then taught 3 techniques from different martial arts syllabus's designed to disarm knife attackers. It was then, that they had a partner, with a rubber knife attack them any way they wanted to see if they could disarm them using said techniques. Also an experienced practitioner who had been practicing these techniques also tried to fight with someone wielding a rubber knife in a street manner. The results are pretty damning for those instructors that teach this to people and have them pay good money to learn these techniques, which don't work. The rest of the seminar, not shown, worked on realistic strategies to committed knife attacks (mostly involved were, avoidance of weapon threat, awareness of potential weapon threat, pre-emtive strikes, jamming and improvised weapon use. A DVD on realistic knife self protection is coming out soon from www.streetcombatsystem.com

Category:

Education

Tags:

• realistic
• knife
• defence
• street
• combat
• system
• traditional
• martial
• arts
• karate
• aikido
• jujitsu
• grappling
• striking
• weapon
• self
• protection

[alphgeek]

Yawn...of course TMA techniques don't work against true knife attacks. I do TMA, studied for over a decade, I agree with that. But I'm pretty sure that modern "combatives" and "reality based self defence" and so on is just as useless. Trapping, pre-emptive strikes...it's all bullshit. Avoidance and awareness, now that's a better idea. If someone seriously wants to kill you with a knife, I'd be running the fuck away.

[kinjo79]

@alphgeek It's absolutely about avoidance in the first place, trapping etc are designed for last ditch efforts, and I would have to say have a much higher percentage for efficacy than traditional techniques. It makes sense that if someone is about to pull a knife, you strike or grapple before they get it out. Your chances of dealing with it after it's been pulled are severely reduced.

[kinjo79]

The web video has a few traditional techniques, which are more of a bit of fun than anything useful. The boy was demonstrating techniques from a silly martial art that he had once believed in (the point of the video is realism vs tradition, Or static complex techniques vs adaptable concepts). He honestly used to think stuff like this worked, until he saw it happen in reality. The boy had also been the best student in the martial art that taught these techniques and was better than the instructor

[kinjo79]

It was just the martial art itself wasn't very good. Since then, thankfully he does MMA and teaches SCS. Which are not only a lot more fun, but also a lot more fluid and adaptable!

[kinjo79]

@Axl18289 The founder of Aikido was hardly a badass, and his military record does not support that theory either. In fact, he was a religious man that adapted more brutal techniques (which were mostly ineffective against resisting opponents...) into more gentle ones. If it worked for him good, I'm of the opinion that people should create their own MA based on what works for their body type and strengths, based on good principles and strategies.

[SalCruz450]

when they say learn from those who know what they are talking about do they have the same experiences as those FMA masters whose had knife attack experiences even as teenagers.Knife attacks, especially in some areas in the Philippines are common occurences so a lot of their techniques were developed from actual experiences fighting someone with a knife whether empty hand or knife against knife.There's never guarantee but your chances increases if you train what's proven by those who lived it.

[Axl18289]

@kinjo79 "According to Aikido, or some similar systems, the best thing to do is block and wrist lock". This statement is wrong. There is no blocking in aikido and it's not the goal to lock the arm/wrist - instead you go for the center to control. Keep the flow at block/fight the attacker.

"Aikido has some good ideas" - the founder of that martial art was actually a badass and killed a lot of people before he became so peaceful. It's never the martial art that fails but the person.

[Theriomalstrom]

The reality is that you will probably die if your attacker wants you dead, whatever you do. Fortunately, most attackers don't stick around long enough to finish off their victims.

[xhunterxwolfx]

What the guy did when he attacked "naturally" with the knife was just like when I was attacked by a gangster for telling him to get off of my father's property.

[daboodeef179]

No martial art is perfect. when it comes to fighting, it is not the art but the person practicing it.

[hec182001]

Dog Brothers frequently train with traditional ma techniques and make them work.

[sukkaproduction]

chi sono sti buffoni??

[thugnast]

Sorry about that last part.

[thugnast]

guy is promoting puts it right in your face. aGAIN I FEEL THIS IS COMMANDO type training for people who are bodyguard or law enforcement type, Traditional Martial Artist the way it is taught now is more for the common folks, remember Karate was develop in war, remember a lot of these MMA Sylist where TMA first master there perspective arts and made counters to all the advance TMA moves and call that shit a style, so much for innovation, the same thing that was happen thousand of years.

[thugnast]

guy is promoting puts it right in your face. aGAIN I FEEL THIS IS COMMANDO type training for people who are bodyguard or law enforcement type, Traditional Martial Artist the way it is taught now is more for the common folks, remember Karate was develop in war, remember a lot of these MMA Sylist where TMA first master there perspective arts and made counters to all the advance TMA moves and call that shit a style, so much for innovation, the same thing that was happen thousand of years

[thugnast]

guy is promoting puts it right in your face. aGAIN I FEEL THIS IS COMMANDO type training for people who are bodyguard or law enforcement type, Traditional Martial Artist the way it is taught now is more for the common folks, remember Karate was develop in war, remember a lot of these MMA Sylist where TMA first master there perspective arts and made counters to all the advance TMA moves and call that shit a style, so much for innovation, the same thing that was happen thousand of years again

[thugnast]

of ttraining in Karate i started to learn and study JKD what a martail art/life altering experience. The instructors where Anti-Karate all the way, doe i he revaeal he use to study goju himself,, he change my prespective as a martial artist ut i realize after i trained with him for some time that everything he was teaching doe efftective in real time was already in my system of martial science. The diffeerence is Karate will milk the information to you and Flippino arts and training like this

[thugnast]

thye where try and defend against him, but lets try it on the other side of the coin could he teach children in that matter and would they stay for years of that type of training. In essence i believe the way he is teaching the student would have needed to had train in the martial arts already in order to grass he teaching regular joes a lot of the time will not stick around for that treatment. I have studied the Traditional Martial Art since i was a kid and i took some time off after 15

[thugnast]

when they where learning Jujustu and bring ing it into the Army. What he says is true in the realistic sense of "Yes" the "attacker" is not is not going to come at you in a traditional mattter but there is a reason for the methds behind the traditional matter of teaching self defense in comparison to how this man was teaching . In my opinion that was bodyguard or commando training stuff for if you going right into combat, you said that most Traditional Martial Art Instructor would be stab if

[thugnast]

THis guy is funny at the same time he is right in his own way. He seems to forget that traditional Martial Art waas born in war, most of the traditional martial arts as well. The founder of Akido from my understanding was a top killer for the Army how can TM not be effective when it has been battle tested for century when you could not use a punk ass gun to eliminate your enemy from a distance you hadd to get up on the man a lot of the time, i never seen these same white boys complaining

[Nuthor]

Anyway in his website the video shows traditional techniques. (Not correctly executed offcourse.)

[Nuthor]

That boy doesn't know how to apply the traditional techniques correctly. Also the attacks are not realistic. The attachers try protect the knife rather stab. This doesn't happen in the real world.

[SNIVEROUS]

although its suicidal to disarm an assailant whilst he is attacking, it is entirely possible to use techniques when he is telling you to do somthing like give him your wallet.  he is not as alert as when he is fighting.

[Janotheknight]

@kinjo79 Thanks for commenting. You're right, Aikido techniques need extreme attention to detail and coordination, which is why Aikido requires a long time of dedicated training. I think the advantage though is that once you become good enough to use Aikido techniques they will disarm your opponent immediately, unlike other systems which admittedly are easier to learn and more practical as a beginner, but get less accomplished with each move. E.g. systems that advocate striking the attacker.

[kinjo79]

@ptrodrigu Lol watched some of their videos... instructor is cool, but a little misguided. The most practical and effective form of self protection is not killing and defending at all costs- Its avoiding physical confrontations through using awareness and psychology. Well before physical technique. In all honesty the guy I most respect in this field (and he hasn't paid me to say this!) Is Richard Dimitri and Senshido. Look em both up, it's refreshingly honest, and is very smart.