Delahunt: Let's Break Up Health Care Into Smaller Bills

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[SeriouslySickOfObama]

When will you explain the back room deals and the blackmail of getting votes with all the bribes? This bill is full of pork and dirty deeds!!!

[Iceberg6606]

Great idea! I like this. Pass really good reforms incrementally, so it is easier and more transparent.

[Visfen]

Free interaction, without a big overhead administering the actions, the ends and the effects of a system will obey all people - not just the majority.

I think the biggest problem we libertarian principled people have today is to explain what the market really is. It truly isn't something scary or seperated from human interaction, it is the spontantaneous organization.

If you read Proudhon, do well to read some Rothbard or D. Friedman as well, to get where we anarchocapitalists are coming from.

[Visfen]

Nice, I like Proudhon. I think he get the political philosophy somewhat right, but I still think his economic understanding is missing.

The market, or rather - the volountary mechanism for human interaction, is the best place to solve problems.

Democracies doesn't create agreement, it create classes, interest groups, factions that wage economic war trough the democratic process. I don't think a democratic organizationl structure can ever get past this, the American experiment is proof of that

[mistaspot1]

(cont.)

Democracy is not an end. It's a means to an end. The end goal is agreement. So, institutional democratic mechanisms are less important than our ability to come to a consensus. What allows rifts to be generated is an absence of deliberation. Democracy can cause people to get left out. This is the most common criticism; the subjugation of minority parties. So minority-majority communication is very important. Always we have to remain loyal the effort to deliberate.

[mistaspot1]

I plan on reading some Proudhon, but I'm somewhat familiar with his and Marx's points of contention.

We're starting a political party right now and we're discussing our method of organizing. Ultimately your disdain for democracy is somewhat justified, but not completely. I'll explain...

[Visfen]

Government interference has nothing to do with cooperation. I mean, just read Proudhon to come to grips with such a distortion of the truth.

I'm against democracies alltogether, I don't believe dictatorships are legitimate just because the dictator is elected. The idea that we should rule over each other trough represntatives is not what made any country succesful.

What makes a country prosper is a set of egalitarian rational rules, that extends freedoms to all so they are free to choose.

[mistaspot1]

First and foremost, stop being dogmatic. We have to be a community of people which co-operates with each other. Sometimes we can fool ourselves into self-righteous indignation but seen differently it is a lack of compassion.

It sounds like you're just against being a member of a polity as big as the United States. If so, then you should just say so, explicitly. Don't claim to be patriotic. Just say you don't want to live in such a big country.

[Visfen]

You can't chose what you want to fund, that is the problem with government. They take your money by force and do whatever they want, and then if you whine about it, they tell you that you can vote every 2 years, one of 300 million votes, and that it somehow matters.

Voting is useless... it give mme no power, I want freedom, freedom is true power. Then I wouldn't pay a dime for either social programsor war, but spend my money on what I wanted, like scientific endeveours.

[Visfen]

You don't seem to understand how it work, 4000 people randomly selected in the country statistically correlate with the entire population to theextent of something like 95-98%.

A couple of polls is just as good as an election.

[Visfen]

And the problem is that people, and doctors, are informed about new drugs?

Hehe, yeah right.

You know why drug companies are more aimed at unloading products on the larger population, they can't get real medicine trough because of the FDA. It is too expensive, you make more money solving erection problems and so on, and such things needs adverts.

Deduct from their taxes? :D Advertisment is a cost like any other.

Conservativism aspouts nonsense as usual.