A liberal? No thanks.

As far as I am concerned, conservatives are the lesser of two evils.

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[chorizo1337]

You know whats hilarious, you forget to mention that there are many extreme leftists like myself who think like these so called "conservatives".

For example, i dont rely on the government to help out, because they really dont. But in socialism the government does help out more than usual. And honestly legislators are BS, because we vote them in, then they make these desicions without asking the people first.

[MotionFur]

"And honestly legislators are BS, because we vote them in, then they make these desicions without asking the people first."

Well, if you want to hold a political office, being honest and trying to represent your population, rather then represent the people who will pay for your reelection, is pretty much shooting yourself in the foot.

[chorizo1337]

Uh, yeah your saying that it's better for skeezy corporations to have their way, rather than the people? Dude part of the reason obama is such fail is because he is a corporatist paying back the banks/other scum who funded his campaign.

Legislators and representatives need to represent the peoples values/issues, if they cant, we need a derect democracy of the people then

[MotionFur]

"Uh, yeah your saying that it's better for skeezy corporations to have their way, rather than the people? ...he is a corporatist paying back the banks/other scum who funded his campaign."

I'm saying if you WANT TO GET ELECTED, that's what you have to do. I'm not saying I WANT it that way, I'm just saying it IS that way.

[Doggorunning]

Very good thoughts

[MotionFur]

The constitution provides for a state that is nothing like what we have today. What we have today is a massive intrusion on everyday life, and is far outside the confines of the constitution.

I don't think I take an unrealistic approach, but I think you do.

[MotionFur]

Well, there's frankly so much conversation we skipped over to get to this point. We haven't even determined if we agree on property rights or anything else.

[KevinSolway]

In a properly functioning democracy, where there was transparency of decision making, and where the public participated a lot more than they do now, then a lot of these problems might be solved. Democratically elected representatives ("politicians") are effectively "agencies" whom we hire to do work for us, and to make some decisions on our behalf, and if they produce poor results, they are turfed-out (in a properly functioning democracy).

[MotionFur]

"I was referring to the minor improvements between Bush, and Obama, not some major change of direction."

Doesn't seam any better to me.

[TheNakedAtheist]

I think long term we're pretty well doomed regardless. We aren't doing nearly enough to control Global warming, and more, and more scientists at least privately think it's too late.

I was referring to the minor improvements between Bush, and Obama, not some major change of direction.

When I was younger whether you were left, or right leaning the average American trusted people like Walter Cronkite to tell the truth. Fear mongers like O'Reilly, and Beck couldn't get away with their bullshit.