CLAIM 3) The words of the Mishnah and Talmud are clearly the words of men living in the 2nd-5th centuries CE and absent are the familiar Biblical formulae "And the Lord spoke unto Moses saying," and "Thus saith the Lord".
This argument would only be a challenge if the Mishna and / or Talmud claimed themselves to be prophetic texts... but they don't claim to be prophetic texts.
The Mishna and the Talmud claim to contain the legal rulings of the ancient Mosaic Court. The Tanakh ('old testament') constantly refers to these legislators and the divinely appointed authority given to them. (Examples will be given later in the clip.) The Tanakh does not only teach that prophets would be ordained by YHWH; it also teaches the positions of king, and of legislators, and of officers who inforce the legislation.
The Mishna was simply the first code, authorized by the Mosaic Court, which was intended only to serve as a GUIDE for public teaching of the Oral Instruction. It was intentionally very abbrivated, since the Mosaic Court was still functioning at the time of its composition, and the members of the Court did not yet feel an immediate threat of being overthrown by invading occupied forced.
The Mishna was not intended as an exhaustive codification of all the Oral Instruction, neither of the Oral Instruction from Sinai (halakha l-Mosha mi-sinai) or Oral Rabbinic Instruction (divrei sofrim) from the Mosaic Court.
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CLAIM 4) The Rabbis claim that the "Oral Law" is the official interpretation of the Torah given on at Sinai. Yet if one actually looks at the Mishnah and Talmud they are full of the opinions of Rabbis who disagree with each other on almost every issue. The Rabbis explain that whenever there are such disagreements, "both opinions are the words of the living God." Karaites maintain that it is unreasonable to believe that God would contradict Himself.
There is more than one type of "Oral Law." Relatively few of the laws discussed in the Talmudic texts are considered by the Talmud to be Oral Instruction from Sinai. The majority of argumentation in the Talmudic texts is over what the proper Rabbinic law should be. Rabbinic law refers to the ajudication which Written Torah commands the Mosaic Court to practice, so as to instruct the people regarding how to correctly implement the 613 commandments of the Written Torah, and to give a final verdict on matters of dispute and disagreement among the population (Deu. 17:8-10; 2Ch. 19). The Written Torah gives recognition to the type of disagreements which appear in Talmudic Lit (examples later). Sometimes the argumentation is over a Biblical indication of a law, but not over the law itself. The variety of opinions among Karaites prove the practical necessity this religious Judaic-judicial system - the Almighty already touched on the issue long before Karaites lost knowledge of the solution. The variation of practice among modern day Orthodox Jews is also due to new situations that were not discussed in Talmudic Lit., which have arisen since the dismantlement of the Mosaic Court under the Roman occupation roughly 1,700 years ago. The Almighty has already promised by the hand of Isaiah the prophet that our judges will be restored as of old (Isa. 1:26).
"Both opinions are the words of the living 'G-d'" only in the context of theoritical application of the principles of Biblical interpretation, and only when these principles are properly applied; The phrase only means that when more than one legal understanding can be concluded by means of the interpretive principles, then both legal understandings are theoretically valid - BUT only the legal understanding which the majority of judges in the Mosaic Court agree upon becomes the binding and authoritative legal understanding. Karaites are correct that the Almighty does not contradict Himself; but humans understanding sometimes is sometimes a misunderstanding.
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Prière Inauguration Synagogues Karaite Keter Torah Ashdod Israel 1/3by alico251,225 views
I would almost say Karites fall in the catagory in Deut 30 that talks about not fallowing false teachers.
KingOystar 1 month ago
@onthemoney90 The only reason I even returned to this webpage is an Inbox message informing me you've posted some new inconsequential ramblings.
Just shut the hell up so I won't get any more messages of this kind. I'll be very happy to forget you for good as I had forgotten for the past 3 months. Any reasonably intelligent reader who's followed our exchanges since the beginning notices you're a practically a nobody doing a pathetic fronting job for Ortho Judaism.
Handler201 8 months ago
@onthemoney90 But u harass me by causing my Inbox to get messages that u've posted new comments to my comments 3 months after the exchange had died out, u miserable dummy?? Evidently ur a repugnant troll who thrives on harassing others but whines ur harassed when u get retorts.
Nobody except ur fellow Ortho trolls care what u're saying. Obviously u're so weak that u need to be the last talking so that u'll feel u've emerged with the upper hand at any cost.
Handler201 8 months ago
@onthemoney90 ROTFLMAO....
At any rate, you're undubiously a pathetic puny attention whore with OCD, still spouting your battered pro-Rabbinic script lines. You need to get a life if you even know what the meaning of the word life is.
Handler201 8 months ago
@omedyashar you should really study Karaism before making an argument against it. Karaites don't reject Talmud or Mishna. They reject certain things from Talmud and Mishna.
jimilli09 8 months ago
@Handler201 Your probably an Xtian who realizes that the 'Oral' law is problematic to Xtianity. So you mask urself as someone concerned but really are protecting Xtianity.
onthemoney90 9 months ago
2) of 3.Moses explained the proper way to perform every law, which became the 'ORAL' law, studied & memorized till the time of the Talmud. It was forbidden to record or write the Oral law down as repeatedly referred to in the OT, prophets & scriptures. When the rabbis saw that it was being forgotten, due to progressive 'weaker' (ie. less spiritual) generations, they were forced to write it down. Still, some laws became fuzzy so the rabbis had their work cut out for them. But any law stated...
onthemoney90 9 months ago
1) of 3. Some on this site can't acknowledge the simple facts of the OT re; the Oral law. In Exodus, Jethro, it clearly states that Moses taught the Mosaic law, customs & codes & answered all questions, training judges & establishing courts which totaled to 140,000 & stayed with Israel till today. It was forbidden to record the Oral law as repeatedly mentioned in the OT, it's prophets & scriptures. Whoever denies this has their own seperate agenda.
onthemoney90 9 months ago
3) of 3.had to have been 'remembered' by a rabbi or the Talmud quoted acronym of "when Elijah comes he will answer all unresolved questions. Any law today MUST tie back to Talmud which MUST tie back to OT. No jewish court can overturn a prior ruling of a court > in number or importance. Else, the Ortho way would'nt withstand the test of time. Karaites r welcomed by Judaism in the hope they will see the light & FOLLOW THE ORAL LAW. If u still don't get it, ask an Ortho Rabbi. Don't harass me.
onthemoney90 9 months ago
@yomamasofat87 Apparently this "onthemoney90" is a moron who suffers from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder to boot. He still doesn't get it and the more one tries to enlighten him that he's mistaken, the more he insists he's correct. In the world we live in we encounter also this kind of humans.
Handler201 9 months ago