For those who deny the existence of miracles

Do miracles exist? I'm not one who is ready to find a miraculous occurrence behind every bush, so to speak...but I'd also say that to deny them, one really must turn a blind eye to convincing evidence, and unreasonably assume that everyone relating their occurrences are liars, frauds, stupid, or crazy.

Here's St. Augustine relating a litany of North African miracles, many of which occurred during the latter part of his life. If you're a doubter, please ask yourself: Was he lying? Was everyone who saw these signs stupid or deceived?

Here's the link to City of God, Book 22:

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/120122.htm

The chapter, again, is chapter 8.

Update: For anyone who tries to excuse this away by comparing it to the "well attested miracles" of sorcerer and fraud Sathya Sai Baba, do examine this link concerning his "raising people from the dead:"

http://www.saiguru.net/english/articles/08resurrect.htm

Category:

Education

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• Augustine
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• Miracles

[msm1876]

@PCREVIEWHQ I'm not sure if they directy relate to the information in this video.

Augustine did a treatise called "On lying" where he painstakingly looked at potential situations where it could behoove a person to lie, ie, saving their own life, etc, and basically concluded that it was never ok to lie. He had an extremely STRICT code of ethics.

Do you believe he was lying about the stuff he saw for himself?

[msm1876]

@hadzhere >>>why didn't Jesus' provide even ONE miracle with a permanence...

How about the wild events in the temple during from 30-70 AD...right after he died, leading up to the temple's destruction...recorded in the Jewish Talmud?

Copy this and put it in the YT search bar:

The Old Covenant ended in 30 AD...and the proof's in the TALMUD?!?!?! Seriously?

See ya there. Like to hear a skeptic's take.

[hadzhere]

@hadzhere This

[hadzhere]

@hadzhere This

[msm1876]

@TheGenuineChristian I like you Yuratchka...you're silly.

[msm1876]

@hadzhere >Dialogue with Trypho was a real occurrence do you?

Yeah...it's pretty well accepted by all textual critics as legitimately from Justin. So, what he lied and made up the whole thing??

The Celsus thing...Origen repeats the arguments word for word. Again, he accuses Jesus of learning sorcery in Egypt...take it, leave it, it's your business. Your loss, frankly.

[hadzhere]

@msm1876 And yet somehow he failed to report all the miraculous things Jesus did? Herod was hated by Josephus thus his reporting of this occurrence (which really only records how he died, nothing miraculous there, just given a miraculous slant as usual for the day). Why didn't Josephus mention Herod's slaughter of all the babies under 2 years old while he was looking for Jesus? This would be much better evidence for the gospels and much more noteworthy too, I would think.

[hadzhere]

@msm1876 Again tales from a Christian sources. You don't imagine that the Dialogue with Trypho was a real occurrence do you? Was Matthew refuting a real happening or was he responding to explanations by Jews of hypotheticals of "how it could have occurred". We CAN'T know because NO contemporary accounts mention his supposed resurrection NOR provide that explanation to account for it. It is all from context-less reports in Christian authors. See my other comments on what I think is evidence.

[msm1876]

@hadzhere 3) Acts 12:23 sounds like a ridiculous tall tale...yet is corroborated by Josephus.

[hadzhere]

@msm1876 Except once again, it's only from Christian sources. Celsus actual words have been destroyed (by Christians no doubt) and can only be reconstructed from Origen. Who knows in what context he said them. Who knows if he was giving a hypothetical (like I did) of how the Christian stories sprung up? Actually I just read the Origen account Celsus does appear to have been setting up a hypothetical situation in his text (which we now only have parts of).