Thoreau's Civil Disobedience

With the war in Iraq waging on for five years now, Peacelf asks what can we do? He looks to Henry David Thoreau for solutions.

Category:

News & Politics

Tags:

• Iraq
• War
• Thoreau
• Peace
• Gandhi
• Dr.
• King
• civil
• disobedience

[petswodahs]

some of thoreau's views, although understandable, are too radical to be applied practically. There are just some really naive ideas in there that just can't be done.

[peacelf]

Like What?

If you apply those ideas to yourself and not worry about what other people think, then it can be done. That was Thoreau's thesis: Individual change. Then, if you change, the whole world changes.

Thanks for the comment.

[petswodahs]

His views are too relativistic, he says that we should do what we feel right and follow our conscience. If everyone followed that then there will be conflicts and society cannot function on such relativistic views. There must be some universalized standard for all to follow, such as the law, in order for society to function. You say that we should "not worry about what other people think." But you cannot just ignore others since your actions will affect them also.

[peacelf]

Good points, except they ignore transcendentalist philosophy which says that humans have a common morality. It is society that corrupts us by making millions of rules written and unwritten that keep us ignorant, that prevent us from finding truth and living by that truth. Thoreau refused to pay his church tax because he didn't like the hypocrisy in the church. He also refused to own a lot of "material things" that distracted him from his simple philosopher life. Things weigh people down.

[petswodahs]

His views also undermine morality. If everyone did what he felt was right, then morals are relative. If morals are relative, then everything can be right if you believed that they were right. If this is the case, then one cannot make interpersonal moral judgment on others. I can kill someone and say that I believed that I was doing the right thing and you can't say that I'm wrong if you follow Thoreau's view. Everything would be permissible based only on feelings.

[peacelf]

cont 2. So, if every one sought moral transcendence, there would be no need for government, laws. etc.

Doing the right thing means not interfering with others rights and freedoms. That's morality.

peace

[totallybarefoot]

One more thing. I'm willing to have a VERY limited wardrobe, and live in a VERY casual state. No need for me to wear a suit, ever.

What I can't sew myself, I'm going to have a local, self-employed tailor make. I won't spend much more, and I'll KNOW she's giving herself a living wage. I don't WANT clothing made by children in sweat shops.

Never shop where you would not work.

Never buy what you would not produce, or let your children produce.

[totallybarefoot]

I feel ASHAMED that when my local grocery workers were negotiating for HEALTH CARE, all I could do was assure them I'd never cross a picket line.

NOW I think, we shoppers should have REFUSED TO BUY PRODUCE AND DAIRY until those companies gave the people who handle our food HEALTH CARE. There are specialty dairy stores and farmers markets. And KROGER needed to be ankle deep in spoiling lettuce and milk to learn that we aren't their captives, and our grocers are not their slaves.

[safewayselect]

Thanks, dude. Took what I needed from this to help me understand the Thoreau essay for my lit class. Keep on keepin on!

[petswodahs]

6. You said do the right right thing. What is right? Remember, right and wrong cannot be relative or subjective, that will be a direct contradiction and also undermine the concept of right and wrong. Are you going by the utilitarian concept, or maybe the deontelogical ethics? I don't know, but please explain to me what is considered right?

[petswodahs]

3. What is this "truth"? It is very vague to me. What do you mean by "finding truth and living by that truth?"

4. And what is moral transcendence exactly? Is it the realization of some higher morality? (I'm not suggesting that you mean that but I am inviting you to explain this to me.)

5. The idea that we do not need government is outlandish. No government, no laws, that would be chaotic since we can do anything, no boundaries. I can go around killing, stealing, raping as I please.

[petswodahs]

Ok here r some problems:

1. The assumption that everyone has a common morality is wrong. The simple fact is that we don't. Morality is the social norms that was accepted over time. In other words, transcendentalist morality is either wrong, or is in need of some heavy justification and reasoning. You need to show why you believe everyone has the same morality.

2. I wouldn't say that society is always corrupt, or it keeps us ignorant.