Verner's Law, Part 3 of 3

Part 3 discusses some problems scholars have encountered with Verner's Law. Those who don't need that much information may wish to view only the last 2 minutes.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Verner's
• Law
• Verners
• Karl
• Verner
• Linguistics
• Germanic
• Ari
• Hoptman
• Grimm
• Brothers
• Bopp
• Rask
• Karen
• Wiese
• Thompson

[Yarrski]

Fun, fun, fun, but sloppy.

Gmc. *auǥ-ō is not related to Lat. oc-ul-us

the Gothic pret. pl. forms of 'be' and 'pull' are wēsun (not wasun), taúhun (not tuhun)

Go. gawaúrhtēdun 'the made,' not gawaúrhtadēdun

[AvuncularFeldspar]

Tuhun seems like a typo to me, since I used the verb correctly and with abandon in other related works, unlike wasun, which I probably just created on the spot. Gawauhrtedun I mistakenly based on Class I verbs like nasidedun, a form which would have been a fine example itself. Ah, well. The points they all make about accentuation are still good, fortunately. Augo/oculus is fine according to Pokorny, F. Kluge, Feist-Lehmann, Köbler, and other very respectable sources.

[silvr94]

question: when do we know which word is affected by Grimm's Law and which by verner's law

why did t > th in Germanic when t > d in West Germanic (see video at 3:25 ).

Very thankful for the videos and grateful for explanations!

[AvuncularFeldspar]

1) Well, you start with the assumption that p, t, and k are going to shift as Grimm had predicted (f, th, and x [ch]). If it doesn't work, you're probably dealing with Verner's Law. 2) T tended to stay t within Germanic, except in High German (tide, better ~ Zeit, besser). On occasion, however, VL treated t in unexpected ways, as in endings.

[rebeckery]

this is totally amazing. the joy of historical linguistics! I answered on Verner's Law in the last question of the very last exam of my degree, so I have great affection for it.

if there ~were~ no Verner's Law, I would be quite ~forlorn~ (oooh, see what I did there?)

[AvuncularFeldspar]

I saw what you did! Ha!

[a3nne]

Thank you very much!! This is helping me pass my "language change & history of the English language" exam.

[Thorsigurd]

@rebeckery You would not have been quite forlorn, the current semantics thereof is perhaps from a loan translation from Dutch 'verloren hoop' (forlorn heap = destroyed heap [of soldiers])'. Also, PP loren > -lorn is from OE leosan, not from OE losian. Both are from the IE root *leu-, however, the long-vowel/diphthong variation is again a question of different syllable stress, though under a different rule, as I understand it, in a nutshell. ;-)

[Yarrski]

@AvuncularFeldspar

All these things apart -- a very accessible exposition, and fun to watch, too! Thank you! Just had my IE and Old Norse students watch it.

[Yarrski]

@AvuncularFeldspar

All these things apart -- a very accessible exposition, and fun to watch, too! Thank you! Just had my IE and Old Norse students watch it.

[uworissimo]

@AvuncularFeldspar

The difference between Modern German and Present Day English is related to the Second Consonant Shift, I assume.

Great video, kudos!!!

[silvr94]

could you explain why people always talk about verner's law coming AFTER grimm's law (or vice versa) in time? was either grimm or verner right or did both shift systems happen just at different times. thanks for your help

[maggmiss]

way to go Karl!