Readings: Koestler's "Holon"

reading from Arthur Koestler's book "Janus: A Summing Up" , page 33-34.

HolonsNetwork's webcam recorded Video - August 24, 2009, 09:07 PM

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[Glass2007]

I'm a big fan of KW so I'm no stranger to Holarchy, good pick for your new page name.

[awakenedinseattle]

Hi, Matt. I like the concept of the holon very, very much, but I'm confused by the idea of a hierarchy of holons, or a "holarchy."

Aren't hierarchies and the very concept of a "holon" (at least somewhat) antithetical? Doesn't a real holographic approach (to... well, anything) imply the necessity of transcending hierarchies into another form or arrangement altogether? What have I misunderstood or missed here?

[Cellvar]

LOL He's my Uncle.

[gen6k]

does anyone even own anything? do I control the totality of quarks in my body, or what if they all of a sudden fly off in every direction? don't they already do that, and its more an exchange of quarks? or was that neutrinos?

[gen6k]

everything is also a quark though? what you said was created by quarks and shows up as quarks. what is the "highest" level?, the topographical alphabetic code sequence, or the intangable institutions that surround your words from a socio-humanistic point of view? or is it the quarks? is there anything "below" the universe or "above" it? are we below the universe?, is the universe in opposition to itself? are there different "roles" or is your child subordinate to you?

[kakosuranosx]

I almost forgot. The letter H in the word Holon is because the word had rough spirit in the vowel. The Greeks used to beleive the words had body and spirit, like they were alive. Most of the words that had rough spirit are written today in english with H. 'O lon' was pronounced Hô lon, and then became Holon. :)

[kakosuranosx]

I don't know the meaning in Filosofy but "Holon" is an Ancient Greek word used as a noun and verb. As a noun means "the part of a whole in the soul of someone" as a verb means "someone who is capable to transcend this hole". :)

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

I agree, zendok.

[zendok]

This nondualistic reality is nevertheless hierarchical; consciousness is hierarchical and there's no getting around it - and no reason to. The fact that some people have negative associations to the word doesn't invalidate the reality. You can ascend them, but not transcend them...well, maybe after the highest level but I still back away from moving through that one, at least so far...

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

As someone else said in the comments, namely hyperseauton - you can transcend hierarchies by flowing and nt being stuck, much like the buddha who wasn't stuck but was free to tooo.

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

Holons deal with holarchies and hierarchies such as atoms to molecules to cells, ect, perhaps ad infinitum. You didn't miss anything per se. However, this philosophy is not in opposition to dynamic holographic understandings of all there is. This does fit. Its just that the perceiver... who attempts to do something horizontal in an 'vertical' environment must acknowledge verticality, but dynamically and in full appreciation of the complexity involved and evolved. Is that in any way clear enough?

[hyperseauton]

I referred to "form is emptiness; emptiness is form" in my previous comment.

Flex-flow of gestalt is what it is. See the part in the whole and the whole in the part;

the whole and part  in one another

the part and whole