Jonathan Edwards was Pro-Slavery

Jonathan Edwards said that God causes believers to doubt and fear in order to make them obey.

Edwards also said that God lies to believers (makes them think they're are lost when they are saved)...

Objection - user "vsTylervs" wrote me...
"I hardly think you're doing Edwards justice; it's not that God lies to believers, it's that he guides them through times of trial, through which God will emerge victorious. I too have experienced the "God of the Desert" experienced by the Exodus Israelites, Jeremiah, Elijah, Jonah, and other countless millions, and later encountered the God of Greatness who was powerful enough to bring me into that abyss and powerful enough to bring me out."

My reply - Thanks for the comment. But I'm curious - Do you think God changes? Because you say that one day He is the "God of No-Comforting" to you. Then the next day he becomes the "God of Comforting". Now, I am trying not to laugh but it seems your "God" changes. You may say that "countless millions" of people believe in a God that changes (back and forth from the "God of Comforting" to the "God of No-Comforting"). But these "countless millions" of people sound very much like the idolaters in the Bible who worshiped a "God" that changed - e.g. Baal. For example, read Elijah's devasting critique of Baal - Baal was a "God" that one day heard the prayers of the false prophets, but the next day did not. This "God" sounds suspciously familar to "God-of-sometimes-Comfort".

1 Kings 18:27: Elijah taunted them and said, Call with a loud voice, for he is a god; for he is meditating, or pursuing, or on a journey; it may be he is asleep and must be awakened.

Wow.Notice the similarity between your "God" and Baal? You talk about the "God of no-Comforting" who leaves you in an abyss. This sounds like Baal as defined by Elijah. I'm sorry but Elijah in the verse above makes it clear that a "God" that fails to comfort his believers is an idol. In fact, Satan's kingdom is characterised as a "kingdom of darkness" and "slavery" and inhabited by people who have "not known the way of peace". On the other hand, true believers are "kept by the power of God THROUGH FAITH unto salvation" (1 Peter 1:5). And faith is defined as a confidence, conviction, knowledge, and understanding of Grace. This is just like everday life -- if you have faith/belief in someone, you are confident and sure that you can rely on them. So if you lack confidence of Grace, they do not have faith. And since 1 Peter 1:5 says believers are KEPT by God through faith (confidence), those that lack confidence, lack faith and are not being kept by God (were never saved). Don't you love logic? We could do this all day. 1) The Holy Spirit is the Comforter, 2) He abides with believes forever (John 14:16), Therefore, 3) Believers are always comforted, Thus 4) Those who lack spiritual comfort do not have Holy Spirit. Scripture is so logical =)

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• Jonathan
• Edwards
• Religious
• Affections

[vsTylervs]

I hardly think you're doing Edwards justice; it's not that God lies to believers, it's that he guides them through times of trial, through which God will emerge victorious. I too have experienced the "God of the Desert" experienced by the Exodus Israelites, Jeremiah, Elijah, Jonah, and other countless millions, and later encountered the God of Greatness who was powerful enough to bring me into that abyss and powerful enough to bring me out.

[AndrewcBain]

But these "countless millions" of people sound very much like the idolaters in the Bible who worshiped a "God" that changed - e.g. Baal. For example, read Elijah's devasting critique of Baal - Baal was a "God" that one day heard the prayers of the false prophets, but the next day did not. This "God" sounds suspciously familar to "God-of-sometimes-Comfort".

[AndrewcBain]

1 Kings 18:27: Elijah taunted them and said, Call with a loud voice, for he is a god; for he is meditating, or pursuing, or on a journey; it may be he is asleep and must be awakened.

Wow.Notice the similarity between your "God" and Baal? You talk about the "God of no-Comforting" who leaves you in an abyss. This sounds like Baal as defined by Elijah. I'm sorry but Elijah in the verse above makes it clear that a "God" that fails to comfort his believers is an idol.

[AndrewcBain]

In fact, Satan's kingdom is characterised as a "kingdom of darkness" and "slavery" and inhabited by people who have "not known the way of peace". On the other hand, true believers are "kept by the power of God THROUGH FAITH unto salvation" (1 Peter 1:5). And faith is defined as a confidence, conviction, knowledge, and understanding of Grace. This is just like everday life -- if you have faith/belief in someone, you are confident and sure that you can rely on them.

[AndrewcBain]

So if you lack confidence of Grace, they do not have faith. And since 1 Peter 1:5 says believers are KEPT by God through faith (confidence), those that lack confidence, lack faith and are not being kept by God (were never saved). Don't you love logic?

[AndrewcBain]

We could do this all day. 1) The Holy Spirit is the Comforter, 2) He abides with believes forever (John 14:16), Therefore, 3) Believers are always comforted, Thus 4) Those who lack spiritual comfort do not have Holy Spirit. Scripture is so logical =)

[stanfe5]

@AndrewcBain

I hope you have read ALL of religious affections before you created this. You have taken all of it out of context. What a shame.

[jsorrell]

Which work is this by Edwards???... This is amazing stuff by Edwards... I really could do without the simpleton who is criticizing Edwards' ingenious writing... Anyway.. Which book is it? I want to read the whole thing!

[TribulationST]

Truth does not change because of what one did. Someone can say something like "hoggdawn takes on judgmental authority that he does not have and that repulses me." "And what, exactly, did he say that cannot be found in non-slave loving sources?" What does this even mean? He gave many a sermon that does not even have to do with slavery and many people contain his works that do not support slavery. I would support them in so far as the work in question that I'm supporting is not what is incorrect.

[hoggdawn]

Edwards will never be an example for me. He may have been a silver-tongued orator, but the fact that he held other human beings as slaves/hostages repulses me to the core. And what, exactly, did he say that cannot be found in non-slave loving sources? Would you hearken unto the words of sage theologians who support Roe v Wade? Would they be an example to you? If they said the right words, would they aid you in better knowing God? Somehow, I don't think so.

[TribulationST]

I did not say being a great theologian makes him a true Christian but it was a reply to you saying that you can not tell by their actions if their a Christian or not and I submitted his work as a fruit. You shouldn't "put any stock" in men but they do stand as an example for us to look to and who did great theological work which thus aids in us better knowing about God.

[hoggdawn]

I don't put any stock into any man except Jesus Christ, my God. Period. I've just become so sick of these 'great men of God' who are so fouled up its beyond belief. Another one is Rev. Dabney, who thought teaching blacks to read was downright criminal.

Remember, being a "great theologian" does NOT make you a true Christian. Neither does being a great preacher. If Edwards truly repented of his sins and trusted in Christ and Christ alone, he is saved. If not, he burn in hell.

[TribulationST]

Could never tell by their actions? Do you actually think that's the case with Jonathan Edwards one of the greatest preachers and theologians of all time? Yes it was a major mistake but who knows how many doctrinal mistakes me or you has that is clear from the scripture yet we look over due to some sin of our own. All I am saying is don't be as quick to throw a professing believer in hell especially those who have shown some fruit of regeneration.

[hoggdawn]

When a person's actions reflect an absolute disregard for God's law, I tend to doubt the legitimacy of their faith. I would put Edwards in the same camp as todays liberal Christians who never saw a fetus they didn't want to abort. Are they Christians? Who knows. But you could never tell it by their actions---in Edwards case, toward the blacks; in today's case, toward the unborn.

[TribulationST]

Whoa that's way to big a a judgment for any human to make. If we are saved by grace not by our works you can not proclaim him in hell so quickly. All believers have sins that they are not aware of yet we are still saved and I'm wondering on what basis can you say that this man's mistake means he did not have faith in the Lord Jesus.

[Studier101]

Mr. Bain gives us his "in other words" wereby he twists his own summations of preachers words, which he summarizes through twisting tid-bit excerpts taken out of context.