Kosen Judo sensei Hirata

Le style d'origine du Gracie Jiu Jitsu

Category:

Sports

Tags:

• judo
• ne
• waza
• brazilian
• jiu
• jitsu
• mma
• free
• fight

[BloodofPatriots]

@anausu "BJJ" = "Basically Just Judo"

[novanine9]

@JasonSpiffy - Yeah, Kano's JJ was pretty bad ass, before he gutted it. He received the scrolls to Tenshin JJ (The art that Kano used to create his own JJ), which means he's the heir. Tenshin's lineage lead to Aikido, but Ueishba did not get that honor. In other words...Kano was the grandmaster of Tenshin Shinyo Ryo.

what the Brazilians inherited is, basically, pre WWII Samurai Jujutsu

[TheObelix876]

@SirRediazVh fedor doesnt have a BJJ teacher he does however have a Judo teacher, anyway good Judo schools still focus on Ne Waza aswell my teacher always told me that ne waza is 50% of Judo, and since alot of Judoka's dont focus or only focus about 10-5% on their Ne Waza it is definatly a added advantage to your total grappling game, but so is BJJ if you can study both arts they complement eachother

[BloodofPatriots]

@SirRediazVh You have a problem with reading comprehension, don't you? Go back and read it again and you'll see I made a comparison between current BJJ newaza and Master Oda's newaza. Watch a few of his 1930s and 1940s videos on YT and you'll see he did everything BJJ claims to have invented (total lies, of course). You confuse Olympic Judo with Original Judo. Typical ignorant mistake of a gracie-asslicker.

[SirRediazVh]

@SirRediazVh and just for you know, Mark munoz learns BJJ moves a LOT from nog brothers, anderson silva, and other BJJ practioner before his fight against Demian Maia. and Mark munoz also offered him self to be the BJJ sparing partner of Lyoto machida before machida vs shogun fight. that's because mark munoz already have some knowledge of submission technique(besides his wrestling skills). and if you watch all the sakuraba-gracie fight, you can see that sakuraba defeat gracies by standing.

[SirRediazVh]

@BloodofPatriots BJJ ground game is "primitive" to Judo ( Kosen Judo) ?? haha. Then why every Judoka who compete in MMA they also learn BJJ? i admit that Judo is good for throwing, pins, and control your opponent in standing and a couple minutes of ground fighting, but it doesn't have the superb ability of BJJ to submit opponent in different situation and condition. thats why fedora emelianenko who is a Sambo expert, he still learn some of BJJ defence and move in his gym.

[BloodofPatriots]

@SirRediazVh The BJJ groundgame is primitive when compared to that perfected by Judoka Master Oda. And I've watched judokas handle themselves inside the bjj guard... the bjj'er gets choked out. As for Munoz, he's not a BJJ expert by any means. He's a wrestler and his style of fighting is based on his ability as a NCAA National Champion. Pull guard on him or any other wrestler and you'll get stomped. How many Gracies were stomped by wrestler Sakuraba? Royce, Renzo, Royler, and Ryan?

[SirRediazVh]

@SirRediazVh even a Muay Thai expert can't do a damn thing against BJJ fighter inside a Guard. and just for information, i guess you also realised that wrestling have been evolved recently in MMA world intentionally to adapt with BJJ fighting style. The "Ground and Pound" attitude is implemented by wrestler to react on how confuse they are with BJJ guard on the first hand. if u want to see how effective BJJ against wrestling, watch demean maia against chael sonen. maia defeated chael in 1 round

[SirRediazVh]

@BloodofPatriot you're not making a fair comparison. Mark Munoz is an expert of BJJ as well, most of MMA fighter have knowledge about BJJ. no wonder in today UFC we always see fighters could handle themselves inside guard. you can go to a random MMA Gym in all over USA, and there's no GYM that doesn't teach BJJ in their school. If you want to see how effective a Guard and mount technique is, don't watch UFC. watch a regular match between BJJ and other martial arts.

[JasonSpiffy]

It seems there is a lot of conflicting info in this thread. What are some sources I can read to understand it better?

[BloodofPatriots]

@MrPotatoesLatkie Watch what's happening in MMA. Strong world-class wrestlters like Mark Munoz aren't even bothering to try for the mount. They happily sit inside the guard, closed or not, stack up their BJJ opponents, then beat the living heck out of them. His destruction of Kendall Grove is textbook on the failure of the guard to adapt.

[MrPotatoesLatkie]

@BloodofPatriots Anyone is going to get themselves punched and, elbowed if they stay on the guard. In a fight, the point of the guard is to prevent the opponent from getting the mount. You don't stay there, you go for a submission, or a sweep. Or, a technical lift/get up in base technique to escape your guard position.