debat in Europees Parlement over homofobie in Polen

(tweede) bijdrage van Kathalijne Buitenweg
( GroenLinks, http://kathalijnebuitenweg.hyves.nl ) aan het debat in het Europees Parlement over homofobie in Polen, 25 april 2007

© Europese Gemeenschappen, 2007; reproductie toegestaan met bronvermelding

Category:

News & Politics

Tags:

• polen
• homofobie
• homo
• europarlement
• europa
• parlement
• gay
• discriminatie
• kathalijne
• buitenweg
• groenlinks
• groenen
• groen

[gryzomir]

Maybe we should make also a debate over Polishfobia in the Netherlands or UK? This thing is more tangible than homofobia in Poland.

No Polish newspaper would use the word "fag" while for example "The Times" calls us Polacks and the Dutch de Volkskrant calls Polish a "smerige volk". Don't you have a feeling of being a bit pathethic here?

[RichardWouters]

That's a smart comparison, Gryzomir. But I'd rather conclude that we should confront both homophobia in Poland and polophobia in Western Europe. The qualification in the Volkskrant was in fact a quote from a bar owner in Rotterdam. I don't think many people in The Netherlands would use these words but many do have the impression that Polish migrant workers are 'stealing are jobs'. In fact, by doing work that would otherwise not be done or would be outsourced, Poles create jobs for the Dutch.

[RichardWouters]

To which I can add that Kathalijne Buitenweg and the Dutch Greens have repeatedly recognized the contribution of Polish migrants to the Dutch economy.

[RichardWouters]

Who is defending a totalitarian point of view here? The right to a private life, freedom of expression, freedom of association, the freedom to hold peaceful demonstration, non-discrimination, isn't that what the Polish people fought for when they drove out the communists?

In a free society, you cannot reserve those freedoms for the people you like. You should also grant them to people whose lifestyle you happen tot dislike. That's the essence of freedom.

[hminkema]

"Gay people are stabbed to death or beaten in Amsterdam, not in Warsaw".

Do you think that exaggeration is an acceptable argumentative strategy? I don't. You could just as well state that 'Dutch car drivers are stabbed to death', because that has also happened once of twice. In your country too, by the way.

And don't you think that forcing Polish gays to go underground and hide their sexuality from everyone, their family, their school, and from public life is not oppressive?

[Sergiusz1992]

It's a myth. Poland is not a homophobic country. We just think it is not right to accept homosexual marriages, becouse the esential of marriage is having children. Homosexuals can't have children. Leaving them to adopt children would not be right, becouse every kid should have the view of a mother and father. Gay can be gay, it's his idea for live and no one normal fights against it.

[blahk04]

@fajbusiewicz why? what does that accomplish?

[czechguy78]

@fajbusiewicz and I hope Czech Republic will be one of the countries where Poles won't be welcomed!

[fajbusiewicz]

I hope that Poland still will be forever only country in Europe, where gays and lesbians are not welcome.

This is maybe modern in west europe to be a gay bot not in poland...

[lundholmproduction]

We have all problems with gay rights in Europe. Both in the Netherland and in Poland. The differense between these two contries are that in Netherlands gay people don´t have too hide.

[lundholmproduction]

Polilsh people have the sam rights as the rest of us in EU. The Human rights law and articals in both Eu and in the UN ban discrimation in many issues. Abortion is a human rights issue as well.

Illegal abotions in Poland is a problem and kills many young girls every year. It´s a problem when the church intervene with the sociaity. The banning of abortion tfor one are making the problem worse.

[hminkema]

As you may know, countries with the highest abortion rate are those with the strictest sexual morals. The Netherlands has a very liberal moral (in that the government or school does not interfere with the individual's sexual moral) AND an extremely low abortion rate. (Which is now only increasing because more and more islamic girls have an abortion in spite of their strict sexual moral.) If you *really* want to avoid abortions, educate your children, don't forbid them to have sex or abortions.

[hminkema]

So it is obvious that Gryzomir failed to offer substantial proof for his statement that De Volkskrant called Poles 'smerig volk'. You had better withdraw that statement now, Gryzomir! You can't equate *any* opinion from *any* person cited in *any* newspaper with that newspaper's position.

[hminkema]

Ha! Irony. Yet it is a big risk for foreign children, whose parents settle in a new country, to find a negative attitude if they do not integrate. Think of non-assimilated Jews in Poland before the war. Think of the Moroccan children in Western European countries. Think of black and latino children in the US. It is a good thing that the Dutch authorities try to avoid that situation for Polish (and other ) children, by helping them to find their way within the Dutch educational system.