re: PETA's latest fail: animal cruelty is just like slavery

That hair sticking up on top of my head is picking up radiowaves from the planet Gallifrey.

Ok, so this is a response to this feminist article:
http://feministing.com/2011/07/27/petas-latest-fail-animal-cruelty-is-just-li...

I adore feministing, and I love everyone who writes on it. They're fantastic people! Its a fantastic blog! Check it out!

I have very strong feeling about speciesism, so this is just my two cents on PETA's latest campaign.

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[LLLeeeeeeeee]

Awesome vid, although the idea of something suffering because of it's lack of intelligence is very creepy to me. Not to put words in your mouth, I know you probably don't mean that in any way. Other non-veggies have expressed this sort of sentiment to me, "I would never eat a pig or cephalopod, they're so smart, a cow on the other hand..." I just think that is really creepy, if something has the ability to suffer then why force it to be miserable? even if it's the dumbest animal in the universe~

[RitchandFamous]

@LLLeeeeeeeee Oh yeah, I don't believe that something suffering because of its lack of intelligence is OK. But I think that's most people's rationale. Even if they're not really aware that they think that way. I think that way of thinking is culturally enforced.

[hlkolaya]

are you vegetarian or vegan? If you're just vegetarian then I think you're intelligent and awesome enough to definitely go vegan :) it will increase your awesome points.

[RitchandFamous]

@hlkolaya I'm vegan, yeah. But "vegetarian" is a more culturally universal word which describes a plant-based diet, and is more inclusive. I like to be inclusive =)

[CavePeezy2]

@ardraneala Their pseudo-scientific views views would really only apply to humans then since they wrote about subjects within their species. Animals may have differing traits, but they are neither good nor evil because they lack morality (a fairly complex thing if you think about it). Also language has nothing to do with morality, actions do

[ardraneala]

@CavePeezy2 animals have individual temperaments and unique personality traits. good and evil are defined by patterns of behaviour. An individual animal of any species can behave in ways that could be interpreted as evil. people should read the pseudo-science papers from the slave trade era. the rationality is very similar to your posts. whites began to change their views of blacks because they learned to speak each other languages and it become harder to abstract them.

[ardraneala]

@CavePeezy2 u need to surf the web more. 

[LLLeeeeeeeee]

@RitchandFamous Such a bizarre planet we live on.

[Clairew14]

AWESOME.

[CavePeezy2]

@RitchandFamous If you would like to continue discussing issues, I'd love to do so over email, it would make it easier for me (I'd understand if you didn't want to). My email is CalloftheBass@aim.com Thanks again!

[CavePeezy2]

@RitchandFamous I appreciate you taking time out of your day to discuss our beliefs, this has been a good learning experience for me (I'm still in high school), and I hope it has been the same for you.

I admire your courage to go up on YouTube and state your beliefs in front of everyone. I don't think I would be that comfortable doing so.

[CavePeezy2]

@RitchandFamous I agree WW1, WW2 and other wars are terrible events. I never said they weren't.

Are you against animals eating other animals? Because when a country of 300 million wants cheap pork, it's awfully hard to get around a factory farming technique.

I don't eat the person I killed in self defense. I guess that is the biggest difference

[RitchandFamous]

@CavePeezy2 Is defending the right to kill in self defense the same as factory farming, in your mind?

[RitchandFamous]

@CavePeezy2 By the way, in many countries, such as the United States of America, many animal species have rights. But only particular ones. No relation to intelligence or ability.

By the way, when did I say I wouldn't defend my loved one's rights because I don't want to kill a human being? If another man tried to rape my sister, and my dog killed in defense of her, I'd definitely stick up for my dog's rights.

[RitchandFamous]

@CavePeezy2 Dogs are tastey. Did you not know that many cultures farm dogs?

Humans have compassion for everything? Brilliant.

In other news, have you heard that World Wars I and II happened?

Humans are great! They are interested in more than just survival...they're interested in genocide and meaningful knowledgeable torture also! Oh, and thriving. Brilliant species.

[CavePeezy2]

@RitchandFamous You're telling me you wouldn't defend your loved one's right to life because you don't want to kill another human being?

My point is animals don't have rights. Nothing about them deems them great enough to have rights. If dogs were tasty, they'd be factory farmed as much as pigs. The fact is, humans are special because we have compassion for everything. Animals are only interested in survival. Humans are only interested in thriving.

[RitchandFamous]

@CavePeezy2 So killing a human is fine as long as you deem that they "deserve" it, right? But the factory farming (constant lifetime of torture) for any animal we want to eat is ALWAYS ethical?

We don't discriminate against non-human animals? You mean we don't differentiate which animal species suffer and which have more rights? That's highly inaccurate.

[CavePeezy2]

@RitchandFamous I think that under some circumstances, killing of another human being is completely moral and correct. Killing a person who is about to kill a child is in fact a good deed that would benefit society (and nature in general because people like him/her have probably killed animals for no reason).

Discrimination of animals doesn't really exist. You would first have to lower the standards of living for humans so that they were equal to animals.. which would be chaotic.

[RitchandFamous]

@CavePeezy2 Oh yeah, definitely, humans have the ability to kill other animals. They can kill each other too. That doesn't make it a good idea by your standards, right?

What I was trying to get across in this and the other video is that you shouldn't discriminate against a species because their "average" isn't as "good" as yours. Doesn't matter.

I don't think non-human animals having less intelligence than us makes them less deserving of "joy or delight". Same for humans.

[CavePeezy2]

@RitchandFamous I'm not asking you to treat a mentally handicapped person as a genius. I'm asking you to compare and average adult human to an average adult (animal). Most comparisons are done in this fashion. Biologically speaking, all humans are the same type of apple. And you never addressed my claim that humans, like lions or sharks, have the capabilities and means to kill and consume other animals.

[CavePeezy2]

@RitchandFamous Using an example like Adolf Hitler or Josef Stalin, I can reasonably and rationally say that they are evil. Everyone with a conscience would agree. And if a alpha gorilla rounded up his gorilla friends and killed every gorilla that fit a certain genetic or behavioral category, then I would consider that an evil gorilla.. The fact is, gorillas don't do that. Happiness as defined in the European way maybe. An alternate view held by Plato and Socrates is a deeper type of happiness

[RitchandFamous]

@CavePeezy2 Would you put a three year old human on trial for killing another human? No. Would you give a bear the right to vote? No. Would you give a three year old human the right to vote? No. Life is far too complicated to simplify standards for all in that way, obviously.

You're right, we should compare apples to apples. And I don't think all humans are the same type of apple. Life is never that simple. You can't treat a mentally retarded human like a genius. They just aren't the same.

[CavePeezy2]

@RitchandFamous What I am saying is that we should compare apples to apples. I believe all humans have the right to life, liberty, property,ect.. Should a bear be tried for the murder of a human? It's in their nature to kill, just as it's in our nature to kill. Carnivorous animals can kill other animals, yet we humans cant? We have the proper teeth to eat meat don't we? You cant treat animals like humans just like we cant treat dogs like birds. They just aren't the same

[RitchandFamous]

@CavePeezy2 I think your definition of "happiness" has no basis in psychology. I think you're just using "happiness" in the sense of what it means in your own head, with no scientific backing.

Good and evil are 100% relative concepts. They're also extremely dichotomous. I personally find them to be useless and oversimplifying terms. Humans can be very very cruel. So can non-human animals. Animals (including humans) can be very very kind also.

[CavePeezy2]

@RitchandFamous I believe our definitions of the word 'happiness' are quite different. (I know Webster's or whatever dictionary we use has a definition, but they give a rather basic and dull definition). Joy or pleased would probably be better words for describing your version of 'happy'

Humans have the capability to be both good and evil as you know. Apes can only be apes, and pigs can only be pigs. There are no evil animals, there are no good animals. They are simply animals.

[RitchandFamous]

@CavePeezy2 Isnt that how you judge a community? By how they treat their weakest? I don't see whats wrong with that. I don't think mentally handicapped people deserve any lesser rights. Do you? Obviously infants can't vote, but I think a human should be tried for murder if they killed one. I think a human should also be tried for murder if they kill a gorilla. Just because they're mentally weaker I shouldn't care?

You're discussion of love has no basis in our scientific understanding of it.