Free Will Rebuttal

Do we have free will?

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Free
• Will

[REALITY2point0]

your argument fails because you blithely assert "what if B is not caused by A?".. therein you are arguing against a deterministic universe. you are proposing things which are caused by.. nothing. this is not a statement that science can take seriously. everywhere we look we observe effects with antecedent causes. you are arguing for your brain being a special case where events can arise without antecedent cause. and for this bafflingly unscientific claim you've provided precisely zero evidence..

[hofisito]

@REALITY2point0 In the context of quantum mechanics, does the exact position of an electron at any point in time have a direct anecedent cause? No, it does not... (there's your scientific example)

[REALITY2point0]

@hofisito that's not a scientific example, that's merely an example of a failure on your part to grasp science. The Quantum mechanics to which you appeal cannot at this juncture demonstrate that any quantum phenomena is divorced from antecedent cause as you erroneously claim. in any event quantum decoherence`precludes any vain hope that you might have that any "allegedly" uncaused quantum event would subvert Newtonian determinism and afford you the "free will" that you evidently wish you had.

[hofisito]

@REALITY2point0 It depends on what you mean by "demonstrate," and what you personally hold to be a sufficient level of justification for any given belief.

One possibility is true. Either (1) all quantum phenomena are completely determined by antecedent causes. Or (2) all quantum phenomena are NOT completely determined by antecedent causes.

To me, what we know about the nature of quantum mechanics "leads me to believe" that it is "more likely" that (2) is true. Can we be sure either way? no

[hofisito]

@REALITY2point0 You claim that everything we "see" on the macroscopic level has an antecedent cause, therefore the quantum level must work the same unless "demonstrated" otherwise. Given that the nature of Relativity (at the macroscopic level) differs so drastically from the nature of physics in the quantum world, I don't believe this is a justifiable claim to make

A more valid claim would be to use quantum mechanics to demonstrate that phenomenon have antecedent causes. Something you can't do

[hofisito]

@REALITY2point0 Out of curiousity, how do you explain the "sense" of free will that exists in our consciousness. If our actions are completely deterministic as you believe, why don't we feel like robots?

[REALITY2point0]

@hofisito all you have here is the HOPE that you might one day be able to prove an event without antecedent cause. EVEN if you could, it still wouldn't help your argument. as was explained to you, your further HOPE that this phenomena would thence pervade the macroscopic realm is well understood to be precluded by quantum decoherence. and EVEN if you could overcome that (good luck!) you would then run into your own neurology which is anatomically incapable of exercising free will in any case.

[REALITY2point0]

@hofisito "feel like robots?" you are presuming to know how a comparably complex robot might feel? this is clearly a non-starter.

neuroscientists don't refer to it as "the illusion" of free will for nothing. The great majority of the neural processes involved in forming our actions take place below the level of the PF cortex's conscious awareness. they "bubble up" into consciousness and are then post-rationalized by us as the exercising of conscious will. hence the illusion.