Help pass hate crimes legislation once and for all.

Help pass hate crimes legislation once and for all.

Category:

Nonprofits & Activism

Tags:

• hate
• crimes
• matthew
• shepard
• hrc
• lgbt
• glbt

[poolerboy0077]

@types10000 "the difference is that these factors objectively exist"

Oh the fact that factors objectively exist was never the dispute. It is an entirely subject process; we have lenient, compassionate judges and we also have hanging judges. Discretion to be compassionate or harsh is inherent in the sentencing scheme, and being denied compassion is one of the risks that the offender knowingly assumes.

[types10000]

@types10000

if your having difficulty wrapping your head around my hypothetical because it involves the rich, then feel free to substitute in an arbitrary occupation like computer programming instead.

[types10000]

@poolerboy0077

"Not at all. In fact, just sticking to 1st degree murders alone, there is a reason why some who commit it get the death penalty and others do not. They rest on the weighing of aggravating and mitigating factors"

- the difference is that these factors objectively exist, unlike your claims regard hate crimes where factors are solely based on the subjective inference of those who hear about the crime.

there is no comparison.

[poolerboy0077]

@poolerboy0077 And yet again, we go back to my initial post which addressed the constitutionality of it all, which has nothing to do with the points you're raising. This is argument is stale.

[poolerboy0077]

"UNLIKE your claims regaridng hate crimes."

Not at all. In fact, just sticking to 1st degree murders alone, there is a reason why some who commit it get the death penalty and others do not. They rest on the weighing of aggravating and mitigating factors. These factors are ordinarily carried out by the judiciary and in bias motive crimes they are taken to the legislature and made into statute.

[poolerboy0077]

@types10000 "There is no crime called 'motivation to commit murder"

Right, because it's a criminal *element*. Intent is a criminal element (meaning by itself is not a crime). Motive (which is different from intent under the law) is an element. Actus reus is an element. Causation is an element. Bias is not being criminalized. It's simply an element to put more weight on elevation in a punishment already underway.

[types10000]

@poolerboy0077

it appears your intent on denegrating the word 'motivation' as much as you are the word terrorist.

In this is the case then my response is as follows:

There is no crime called 'motivation to commit murder'

and each of those crimes (whilst involving motivation) reflect specific OBJECTIVE differences with regard to timing and mental state UNLIKE your claims regaridng hate crimes.

instead of arguing semantics, I choose to debunk your argument by demonstrating it isnt analogous

[poolerboy0077]

@types10000 "the dictionary begs to differ"

That definition you cite, which is from Wikipedia, never denies intent present; look under where it says "state of mind." The keywork in your definition is "prior" intent, which is obvious since it's based on a heat of passion. To make matters worse, you still have 2nd (and in some states 3rd) degree murders. Punishments differ here and the end result of the crimes are the same: the people are killed. Your beef is with criminal law, not only hate crime

[types10000]

@poolerboy0077

"It's preposterous to post the amici in a small character box on here"

- you claimed the facts were in there, whilst you dont need to post the entire amici you do need to provide the facts.

so far all you've done is demonstrate there is a legal president, this does not address any of my claims which object to the law based on constitutional and logical arguments.

simply pointing to amici is not an argument.

[types10000]

@poolerboy0077

"You seem to be confused about the law of homicide. Voluntary manslaughter is not lacking in motivations."

the dictionary begs to differ:

"Voluntary manslaughter is the killing of a human being in which the offender had NO PRIOR INTENT to kill and acted during the heat of passion"

"They're both intentional crimes with motives present, albeit different motives."

-are you seriously trying to claim that 'motivation' based on a whim is the same as motivation based on prior intent