Thom debates the healthcare debacle with Dan Gainor

http://www.thomhartmann.com

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[rwcbanzai]

Free market is orwellian double speak for freedom to rip off the consumer & producer with cheap scab labor. Whereby, we no longer produce goods and become a colony serving the imperialist facists of corporatism.

Dan Gamer is a faciist whore using all the lying propoganda talking points of corporate cannibals and orwellian doublespeak of disinformation!

Thanks Thom for revealing his true nature

and their gameplan to let americans die in medical bankruptcy from Facist fear mongering!

[daderone]

and $400 a month isn't a cheap cadillac. How detached conservatives are from the dollar they claim so arrogantly to defend.

[luvcheney1]

@genYprogressive83 According to the Lancet, a British medical journal, in the US men with cancer survive 5 years or more by 63%, women by 66%. In UK, men are 45%, women 53%. If you plan on keeping alive, and are fucked up, its far better to be in the US. Berlisconi, Italian prime minister went to the US for heart surgery. Canadian MP Sronach went to Calif. US corporations developed over 50% of entire worlds newly used drugs.

[genYprogressive83]

@luvcheney1 That has little to do with that. I just showed how when you compare apples to apples cancer mortality rates are identical in the US and UK. You apples to oranges.

THe diffrence is 1 1/2 out of 100K and that doesn't mean the USA wins by a hair when the USA spends more than twice what the UK spends. It proves the USA system is an abject failure. I lived in the UK and Canada and GPs have incentives for people to have more healthy lifestyles there than docs here do.

[luvcheney1]

@genYprogressive83 Exactly. The test of the medical system is how many with cancer survive, not how many die in the general population. We have a lot of bad habits, lots of eating and obesity, and these items have nothing to do with health care. The key to judging the system is survival of those who are sick. With all the fat people, crack smokers, weed, lack of excercise, there is little wonder we have higher health costs than many other nations. You want spending cut back?

[genYprogressive83]

@luvcheney1 You are beyond stupid. Cancer survival rates are not the same as cancer mortality rates. Go read Incidental Economist Report The mortality rates? The American Cancer Society’s Cancer Facts & Figures 2009 reports it’s 25.0 per 100,000 women in the US and Cancer Research UK reports it’s 26.7 per 100,000 women in England. That’s not as big a difference. Hard to believe we’re spending almost two and a half times per person for health care what they do over there.

[luvcheney1]

@genYprogressive83 The number was for women DIAGNOSED with breast cancer, not total women. 1/5 of the women die in the US, over 1/2 in UK. Among men who are diagnosed with Prostate cancer in the US, less than 1/5 die, in UK more than 1/2. Elderly complain of long waits for non emergency treatments 7% of the time in US, 51% in UK. Long wait serious surgery, complaints 4% in US, 13% UK. Price controls create shortages. Study "supply- demand model", 1000`s of yrs of proof.

[genYprogressive83]

@luvcheney1 I thought you would bring up the bullshit argument on Cancer Survival rates. This is one of the stupidest arguments because it is comparing the entire population of the UK with the select ones that actually get treatment in the USA.

There are over 300 thousand a year in America the forgo cancer treatment because of cost. What is their cancer survival rate?

[luvcheney1]

@genYprogressive83 Total NIH budget for 2012 is $32 Bill. R&D on drugs is a fraction of that total. US Big Pharma spent $67.4 Bill in 2010. I would enjoy reading your source for the %`s. Please private message the URL. I love seeing sources from Libs. Among patients, dialysis availability in UK is 27 per 100K, in US is 87. Coronary bypass among patients 41 in UK, 203 in US, angioplasty in UK 51, in US is 388.Women with breast cancer die 1/5 of time in US, almost half in UK.

[genYprogressive83]

@luvcheney1 BIG SWING AND A MISS In 2010 new patents and designs 40% from PHARMA 42% NIH and the other 18% is from Academia.

In the UK NHS which I grew up on it is 8.3% of GDP while health care in the USA is 16.4% and climbing. The NHS spends half what the USA spends and outpreforms Americas Health Care System in every single area.

Tens of thousands die every year in the USA because too many stupid yanks like you stubbornly cling to this "Free Market" Dogma.

[luvcheney1]

@genYprogressive83 Post 2) see , first.) OECD ( 34 industrial nations)says "According to European Federation of Pharmaceutical Ind, R&D in US quadrupled between 1990 and 2003, while R&D in Europe grew only 2.6 times....what may be contributing to this relative decline is the regulatory & competitive environment for pharmaceuticals in Europe." Socialist price & profit controls reduce research, result in fewer drugs more pain and suffering. I am opposed to suffering, you arent.

[luvcheney1]

@genYprogressive83 "A CBO Study, October 2006 Research and development in the Paharmaceutical Industry" states Private US Pharma corps spent $39 billion in research and development in 2005, while the entire budget of the NIH was $25 bill. NIH spends most of its money on analyzing disease, small fraction on R&D on drugs. BTW, govt can discover things, with wealth taken out of private sector, crowding out private sector activities. See post 2)