John Piper Sam Storms Panel on Calvin, Regarding Servetus Being Burnt At The Stake For Heresy 1of8

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/ConferenceMessages/ByDate/2009/423...


. Mark, we'd like to give you a chance to talk about Servetus with us.

Sam Storms: We're assuming that everyone knows about Servetus. Maybe someone could explain what happened.

2. How should the inerrancy of Scripture function in the public realm for the Christian who believes in biblical reality and doesn't want to go too far in legislating morality?

3. Marvin, I know you talked deeply about issues of compassion. How would you help us as Christians to orient to world poverty, maybe in ways you weren't able to in your address?

4. Marvin, you said the upcoming WORLD magazine was going to be called "Trade not Aid." Where is the proper place for aid in ministering to the poor?

John Piper: Marvin, can you clarify for us the difference between the prosperity gospel, which I'm assuming most of us would abominate, and saying from the Bible, "If you do this, you will prosper"?

5. Julius, there's been a lot of talk today about all the good deeds that Calvinism unleashes. You began your talk last night by talking about Calvin as pilgrim. Would you connect for us how Calvin as pilgrim relates to Calvin as world-changer?

6. We have four, at least, pastor-theologians on the panel who are in the pastorate and involved in academics/theology. What insights would you have for us on Calvin as a pastor-theologian?

Sam Storms: I struggle at times to connect with Calvin as a pastor. I don't know any of the civic officials in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma like he knew the civic officials in his city.
Doug Wilson: Remember that Geneva (the city Calvin ministered in) was a comparatively small town.

7. Mark, you talked about Calvin saying that everything is for the best. That's difficult enough to realize when someone sins against us. How do we appropriate that with regard to our own sin? Does our own sin work out for our best? If so, how do we appropriate that in the moment of temptation?

John Piper: Romans 6. Should we sin that grace may abound? By no means

8. John, to close, on August 19, just over a month ago, a tornado hit this building (Minneapolis Convention Center) and Central Lutheran Church next door during a session of the ELCA annual convention where they were discussing their position on homosexuality. Both you and Marvin wrote about this. Would you explain to us the background of this event and how that relates to God's sovereignty?

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[RUdigitized]

@joejohnson043 mormons in the 19th century castrated a man caught in adultery.

[joejohnson043]

Wow, why are they talking about Calvin? He was just a backwards thinking 16th century heretic who started a cult? What's the difference between Calvin and Joseph Smith? Maybe only the Moroni story, and that I haven't heard of Mormons burning their adversaries at the stake, though I've heard they will blacklist you....

[joejohnson043]

@buzzbbird thats tough, maybe he repented of his tyranny before he died?

[TruthDefenders]

@jlopez47 can you give the references to the works where these quotes can be found, not where others quote them, but the primary sources. thank you.

Have a nice day :)

[jlopez47]

"If he [Servetus] comes [to Geneva], I shall never let him go out alive if my authority has weight." - John Calvin

"I hope that sentence of death will at least be passed upon him [Servetus]" - John Calvin

"Such monsters should be exterminated, as I have exterminated Michael Servetus the Spaniard." - John Calvin

[TheGergaliciousness]

this is creepy

[buzzbbird]

@Ridgetown100 History shows that calvin did EVERYTHING in his power to gather and keep power. THAT is the very definition of WANTING power. God has NEVER forced anyone into believing, nor has God ever told anyone in the Age of Grace to cause another person's death, nor wish for it:

1 John 2:9-11, 3:8-14, 4:20

Call Calvin a christian if you wish, God gives you that freedom, so must I. I call him a savage, bloodthirsty heretic! Who is, at this very moment, burning in the eternal fire of hell

[klucharis]

I wished we could have had a balanced scholarly panel, this panel is stacked.

While I am reformed I think we need to be honest, Calvin wished Servetus dead and gave assent to the verdicted thinking Servetus was beyond help.

We need to understand Calivin wasn't the only one in that day of reformation but a lot of the reformers were like that, a product of the times.

[Ridgetown100]

@buzzbbird He was not perfect, far from it. He committed many sins, yes. But no Muslim, Hindu, Atheist, or Heretic has ever had such a tender heart towards Christ, and lived a life devoted to Him, trusting in Him.

[Ridgetown100]

@buzzbbird Is Calvin worthy of salvation? No, neither am I or you. That's why we call it GRACE. Calvin loved Christ Jesus, of the bible. Calvin expressed his gratitude many times to Christ for showing mercy to Him. Calvin tried to love his wife as Christ loves the Church. Calvin loved the orphan and widow, wished to help the distressed. He wanted to grow in Humility and kindness, and wanted others to grow in love of Christ. Calvin did not wish power, but to serve.