Irriducible Complexity debunked ?

A response to atheist libertys video "intelligent design is not science"

I have heard it said many times that IRRIDUCIBLE COMPLEXITY has been debunked
Has it really ?

Category:

Science & Technology

Tags:

• Irriducible Complexity
• evolution.behe
• scott minnich

[Ramshobraja]

So this intelligent designer designed the flagellum on bacteria whic enables them to infect their host better? I asked a similar question about native americans and their lack of resistance to smallpox that allowed them to get wiped out to an IDer. Why would a designer be so cruel??

[pestmanpat]

@Ramshobraja thats a good question but i says nothin for or against the logical conclusion that the flagellum appears to be designed.

[RyuDarragh]

Best article I can find on the pili (Type III Secretory) is from "w w w (dot) sciencemag (dot) org/cgi/content/abstract/280/5­363/602" Remember to change the (dot) to a "." and remove all spaces to make the link work.

[pestmanpat]

i cant get that link to work can you cut and paste a relevant section.

[kkkaldav]

Not only has IC not been debunked, it hasn't even been addressed. That is, virtually everything argument against IC is an attack against the strawman that ID doesn't allow for parts of IC systems to have different functions. This is the Ken Miller objection and it simply leaves IC untouched. So what if part of a flagellum is (like) a toxin syringe - this is like throwing an engine at a bicycle and getting a motorbike. Behe dealt with this possibly when he first introduced IC in DarwinBB (p.65/6)

[RyuDarragh]

Wikipedia search for "flagellum" and check the links in the "External Links" section. There are several covering bacterial pili (the "syringe" mentioned) and explaining the use by the cells to feed either toxins, digestive enymes or DNA into another cell. The pili are used for all 3 activities and are also how drug resistance is traded between species. New information shared on the bacterial internet.

[pestmanpat]

Sure you say

May i have a link to this information

I like to see this toxin syringe in action

[RyuDarragh]

Sure. That was also seen. The same parts were seen forming such a "syringe" and even a DNA exchange bridge. All the parts have other uses in the same species, other species and even foul up several cell mechanisms with one unfavorable genetic mutation. The reason scientists don't trumpet this information around to make Creationists look foolish is... they don't think it's worth the effort or would serve any useful purpose. Instead, other YouTube users are doing that *for* them.

[pestmanpat]

if you can show how parts of the flagelum have been removed to form a toxin syringe let me know.

[RyuDarragh]

(2 of 2) In fact, in one experiment where a critical gene (it coded for a critical component of the flagellum) was disabled, the only effect observed was that the flagellum switched from a purely spiral motion to a back-and forth waving motion. Less efficient. This, it turned out, was because of one of the older systems that coded for a proton pump, still in use by the cell, replaced the knocked out version. The difference? The old pump worked in bursts and the newer replacement continuosuly.