Collision: Christopher Hitchens vs. Douglas Wilson - new trailer Oct 2009

I use the religious distinction because it's interesting for me at least to note that the Christian God is not Christian, neither born, died or revived and ascended as such. I've never understood that point, other than it grants legitimacy to assume the Torah as part of it's doctrine, which...I guess grants legitimacy. The Christian church built it's houses and holidays on the bones of other older and defeated religions. Not that I have a problem with that, it's the way of the world and mankind.

The point of the Law (a.k.a. the Torah), was to outline who God is (Holy, Righteous, Just) and what God requires of man, and to show how we as descendants of Adam cannot keep that Law. He then, in his mercy and grace sent His Son in the form of Man (thus the virgin birth via Mary), taking upon Him (Christ) God's punishment toward man's inability to keep His Law, yet the Son fulfilling His Law. Boom, Christianity. To me, that's pretty amazing He did that for us.

Bob, if that peaked your interest at all, I would recommend reading Paul's letter to the Romans. He explains it really well.

"piqued" your interest.

So long "loving god" then...

I'm actually not sure if that's facetious or not, if so bravo. It is quite ludicrous. Imagine a god that can do anything at all, create wonders beyond comprehension but must impregnate a virgin to give birth to a jew that will die horribly as a scapegoat for the sins of semi-practicing jews without even so much as consulting those they sinned against! I'm not with the idea that religion serves no purpose, we are hardwired I think to seek a firm explanation for things we see,but be rational.

You're absolutely right Bob Smith. He totally doesn't care if we exist, and wants to kill us for fun-- OH WAIT. That's right, He sent His only Son to die for us, to pay for our sins since we cannot, and to reconcile us back to Him!

And? Sacrificing his "only son" (ignoring that he could easily make more) is supposed to make us care... why? I couldn't give a flying fuck personally.

Besides which, why would you send your child to pay for the sins which you yourself are keeping tally of. God could have just as easily said "Y'know, I forgive all of you.". A living sacrifice and primitive and barbaric - as is the Old testament god.

I stand corrected, "piqued" your interest.

Anywho, what difference does it make if God forgives us by saying it, or sending Christ to cover our sins, the point is our sin, against Him is forgiven because what He did for us, nothing what we did by ourselves.

Again, that's a merciful God, not a barbaric God. We *SHOULD* deserve eternal damnation, we sinned against Him, yet we are forgiven.

If I owed $100,00 to my credit card company, and they came to me and said, you know what, my son here will pay your debt. Personally, I'm not going to reply with, "I don't give a flying f***. Why are you keeping tally of what I owe you?"

But that's just me...