A response to Bruce Ware on why the "non elect" (in Calvinism) ultimately perish

Listen as I interact with Bruce Ware's comments spoken at a Resurgence Conference in 2007 at Mars Hill Church in Seattle. In the Calvinistic system, are the "non elect" given what they justly deserve, or is something beneath the surface (God's all encompassing decree) governing every thought and act of the godless and rebellious man?

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• Calvinism
• Arminianism
• Calvin
• John Piper
• Bruce Ware
• Grace
• James White
• Theology
• Sovereignty
• Predestination
• Foreknowledge
• Refuting Calvinism
• Elect

[ckmail1]

gracegate [dot] org

[ThePristineFaith]

@ckmail1 please interact with the content of the video rather than just posting a link.

[October31st1517]

So we can blame God for what happened to Joseph according to Gen 50:20?

[R1K2G3]

Another Arminian who simply will not accept the Biblical concept of compatibilism.

1) God has decreed whatsoever comes to pass, temporally, in His own creation. Without this idea, dualism, and deism arises. This is why Arminians can never have a Biblical theodicy.

2) God has decreed that sinners will be held responsible for their sins. Arminians don't have a proper definition of "responsibility", or, "free will".

*Free will is NOT the prerequisite for responsibility!

Soli Deo Gloria!

[chriswatkinsdotcom]

cool music at the end. reminds me of my trip to Israel and Turkey

[Carolmime]

Totally agreed!

[tsines3]

Your argument is filled with appeals to what "feels" right to a human. It's loaded with questions such as "does that 'seem' right?" You didn't use a single verse in scripture to argue your point. People like Bruce Ware (and by him I do not mean Calvinists, but people who have spent there lives studying scripture) know it well enough to talk free from a script because of the hours spent meditating on these truths. You can't discredit years of study with a 3 min, poorly formed argument.

[ExaminingCalvinism]

It's frustrating when you have to remind Calvinists that they are Calvinists, when you get the kind of double-speak espoused by Ware. Ware knows full well of his views on predestination [Determinism], and yet gives speeches on people deserving punishment for the actions that are pre-scripted for them to perform. One C admitted that God prescripts all thoughts, and then tried to echo Ware's sentiments, and it's so disingenuous, and then we are told that we are misrepresenting their deceptions.

[solaphyde]

Well God says we are in a sense his puppuets in Romans 9. We are either pots for common use of noble use, and he is the potter with the freedom to do what he wants with his creation. So really, you're issue is with Scripture, not Calvinists. I was at that conference sitting a few aisles in btw.

Also, the non-Calvinist has the same supposed dilemma. They believe God creates those whom he already knows will never choose him, thus by way of even creating them send them to hell. Think about it.

[AudioPuritans]

How do you feel about God not sending any of the fallen angels a savior?

What do you think about God knowing who would reject Him and go to hell, and still bringing them into the world? even knowing that it would be better that they were not born (matt 26:24)?

[BeholdTheCross]

Here is the thing you need to get your head round. God determined all actions of men but he also holds all men responsible for their own sin. There is no such difference between an uncaused choice and a random choice and a reasoned choice has its own necessity. Gods priority is his glory not the salvation of all men. Creation was not involuntary, a mistake, an accident or an irresponsible act. God cannot be surprised or lose control. All he purposed by deciding to create will come to pass.

[patrckhh20]

@ThePristineFaith Oh please. You're talking as if you've never listened to James White.