1 of 3: The problem of suffering - stalemating with the "no cognitive dissonance" Epydemic2020

My response to Epydemic2020's video Atheistic Questions, Theistic Answers, Agnostic Conclusions.

RE: Why nature's indifference to suffering (natural disasters, wildlife suffering, etc.) clashes with Christianity's notion of a Benign Omnipotent Creator, and the theist's resulting cognitive dissonance.

Sources cited in this series:

Epydemic2020's video The Problem of Evil, Is It a problem? Logical and Evidential Formulations Addressed - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ySUoboxsmI&feature=channel_page

His nine arguments:

(1) God's purpose is not to provide us with easy, convenient lives. Humanity's purpose in life is not happiness, but a knowledge of God and relationship with God (an extension of #3, the "suffering benefits us" argument).

(2) God gives us Free Will, and humans cause evil and suffering.

(3) Suffering benefits us (as expanded upon in arguments 1, 4, and 6).

(4) Suffering helps us appreciate pleasure: here on earth, and especially in heaven (an extension of #3, the "suffering benefits us" argument)

(5) We rebel against God and embrace sin (an extension of #2, the Free Will argument)

(6) Temporary suffering can help us later on (an extension of #3, the "suffering benefits us" argument)

(7) Death is actually a blessing: a transition from this life to the next

(8) Moral evils sometimes cause natural evils (an extension of #2, the Free Will argument)

(9) Humans are too finite to comprehend an Infinite God.

My video response called Theists have "answers" to the problem of suffering, but the answers are unconvincing - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d76SG4HC0TY&feature=response_watch

Epydemic2020's response "Atheistic Questions, Theistic Answers, Agnostic Conclusions" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yypd0kdMGbg&feature=response_watch

My video series "The Problem of Suffering: the 7 Supernatural Answers vs. the 1 Naturalistic" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w2pn66VVWk&feature=PlayList&p=2E827A1...

YouTuber Evid3nc3's video "2.0 Deconversion: The God Concept" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12rP8ybp13s&feature=channel_page

John Loftus's "Why I Became An Atheist: a former preacher rejects Christianity" - http://www.amazon.com/Why-Became-Atheist-Preacher-Christianity/dp/1591025923/...

Lee Strobel's "The Case for Faith: A journalist investigates the toughest objections to Christianity" - http://www.amazon.com/Case-Faith-Journalist-Investigates-Christianity/dp/0310...

By Todd Allen Gates, author of "Dialogue with a Christian Proselytizer"

LINK TO CUSTOMER REVIEWS ON AMAZON:
http://www.amazon.com/Dialogue-Christian-Proselytizer-Allen-Gates/dp/16014508...

Link to eBook: http://booklocker.com/books/2739.html

Link to free PDF excerpt: http://assets.booklocker.com/pdfs/2739s.pdf

My three YouTube channels:

- http://youtube.com/user/ToddGates - my musician channel

- http://youtube.com/user/ToddAllenGates - where I discuss the ideas in "Dialogue with a Christian Proselytizer"

- http://youtube.com/user/ToddAllenGates2 - where I discuss the ideas in my book "Hunting, Gathering, & Videogames" (such as "Why do we have to work?" and "Why do we have to use money?" and "How should we define 'success'?")

Category:

Education

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[Antarblue]

Thx for ur reply. So, when Chris Hitchens says "All religions are the Same" I agree that yes all religious institutions are the same. Once any group institutionalizes the prime directive immediately changes to 'preserve the institution at any cost even if it violates what they espouse. But that Hitch and other western atheists behave like Abrahamists and make pronoucements about another worldview they don't even care to educate themselves about; I'd like to bring that into the discussion.

[ToddAllenGates]

@Antarblue

>  I'd like to bring that into the discussion

Yes, good point.

[verumINscientia]

Why would an omnipotent beeing who needs no and does not need to love/worship have to demonstrate that glory to anything/anyone? furthermore if we were made by god that also means we were made by him TO love worshiping. why would god, if he is within himself without want, want make somthing to gratify his "glory" by worshiping him (by design) and making it impossible for fufillment without doing so? that seems self centered also malicious/bad to "punish" a beeing for a failure in his design

[TheApatheticGuy]

@Epydemic2020

Who says what you think is "free will" is, indeed, free will? And what even constitutes free will in the first place? Who says humans really posses such a thing?

[ToddAllenGates]

@Antarblue

> My point: vastly different than Abrahamic. Not equivalents

Yes, agreed.

[ToddAllenGates]

@Antarblue

> Unfortunately, he somehow retained 'karma'

My guess is that it's b/c he grew up with the notion, so it was just a "given" ... but it always struck me as curious, b/c here's a religion without apparent gods, yet for Karma to work, it seems like there almost has to be some sort of Divine Overseer / Accountant to make sure the right souls (so to speak) go in the right bodies.

[Antarblue]

@ToddAllenGates Yes "Morality attached" Gatuam Buddha was a man who dropped his religion Hinduism and all scriptures, priesthoods sects. Unfortunately, he somehow retained 'karma' which is a device of the priest to control masses with threat and reward. There are 100s of Buddhist sects. They believe all sorts of things. Gautam Buddha warned againt even one! He would have been mortified! Humans find it easier to imitate than to reclaim their own actuality!

[Antarblue]

@ToddAllenGates cont's The most popular Hindu scripture Bhagavad Gita is actually a treatise on the 8 limbs of yoga. In their true intention these yoga-s are techniques not moral injuctions. The great moral evil warned of in Bhagavad Gita in "loss of memory," A tractical consideration, not threat of hellfire or of being excluded from the righteous elect.

[Antarblue]

@ToddAllenGates I' referring to the worldview that generates these religions not the institutionalization thereof. It is vastly different than Abrahamic. The way to go beyond desires is to find a technique that works, practice it as long as it satisfies ur true heart's desire freedom. Disgard when it doesn't. Ordinary desires become irrelevant. eg U want a handshake it gives a blowjob! Nothing to condmen, believe; no philosophy to adhere to. East vs West worldviews not equivalents.

[Antarblue]

@ToddAllenGates I'm referring to the worldview which generates these religions not the institutions thereof. I'm talking about 100s of practical techniques. The way to go beyond suffering is for one to find a technique that works, practice until it satisfies your true heart's desire: freedom, truth. eg U want a handshake it gives U a blowjob! Nothing to condemn, believe no philosophy to adhere to. My point: the eastern worlview vastly different not equivalent to Abrahamic worldview.

[Antarblue]

Thx for ur comment. I'm referring here to the worldview's that generate these 'religions' not the institutions thereof Pholosophical to be sure but the way to eliminate desire is practical; find a technique that works and practice it until it satisfies your heart's real desire for freedom and truth.eg U want a hand shake it giives u a blowjob. Nothing to condemn, believe or philosophy to adhere to. My point: vastly different than Abrahamic. Not equivalents

[Antarblue]

Thx for ur comment. I'm referring here to the worldview's that generate these 'religions' not the institutions thereof and the 100s of techniques. Pholosophical to be sure but the way to eliminate desire is practical; find a technique that works and practice it until it satisfies your heart's real desire for freedom and truth.U want a hand shake it giives u a blowjob. Nothing to condemn, believe or philosophy to adhere to. My point: vastly different than Abrahamic. Not equivalents