Sam Harris: Religions Are Failed Sciences

http://bigthink.com

We are misled by the very term "religion," argues Sam Harris. Religion was simply the discourse humans used when all causes in the universe were opaque.

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[sloonzz1012]

You're straying off from the original point. My point is that most religious atrocities committed is because of indoctrination of religion. I didn't say that religion is PURELY EVIL. I didn't also say that atheism is PERFECT.. after all, atheism is simply the lack of belief in any deities. It doesn't say anything much about the person at all. I agree that some people lack guidance, but that's not the fault of atheism.

[gomarcphil]

This concept of boiling "religion" down to simply stories of "a man in the sky" is lazy and uninspired. Religion attempts to promote social order, morality, and pretty well defined value system. For all the criticisms atheists can levy against religion, a reasonable person would acknowledge that religion has its fair share of positive qualities.

[konkelberryfinn]

This concept of boiling "atheism" down to simply being "self-righteous, arrogant satanists" is lazy and uninspired. Atheism attempts to promote social order, morality and a pretty well defined value system. For all the criticism religious peeps can levy against atheism, a reasonable person would know who has the real overhand in all the debates, in justice, in finding the truth.

[sloonzz1012]

Yes. That's what I actually meant when I said 'innate'. They act depending on the consequences. But people have developed laws and morality in order for them and their community to grow. If people would only steal and kill each other, we would not progress as a species. Same here, it can be. I still think religion is a hindrance.. any belief system that is requiring unquestioning faith is dangerous. It's just that it has its share of good qualities.. very small though.

[gomarcphil]

hmmm...can't really disagree with this. However I do think social creatures "behave" because of the consequences of misbehaving. I'm not sure if that's the same as innately knowing how to be "good."  Whether or not religion is a good source is debatable. I appreciate the perspective.

[sloonzz1012]

No. You see, we have developed our evolutionary morality as a community. It is innate in ourselves for the betterment of the community. Even without indoctrination, we have our instincts that tell us not to kill, not to steal, etc.

I somehow agree that religion is one source, but it's not a good source. It promotes blind faith, ignorance, and superstition.. there are better methods out there.

[gomarcphil]

It's quite easy to pick apart religions. I do it myself all the time. Only an extremist would try to deny that religions are extremely confusing. As far as accepting dogma as fact, again I think that is the view of an extremist. I can't say for a fact that God exists, but I believe he does. Should some strong evidence be presented that God doesn't exist I would be 100% open to accepting such evidence. Non falsifiable, I know. In that case, I would consider an alternative with good evidence

[darkblade190]

First of all there are a few points in here that I would like to address. There is no atheist dogma, a paper written by an atheists expresses their views. Secondly beliefs are subject to picking apart, that's not something that religions seem to be so fond of. And finally, as I said in my previous post, even if they are not propagating the religious killings, but accepting any of the dogma as fact without evidence they are not contributing to the shared knowledge and advancement of humanity.

[gomarcphil]

It's really easy to nitpick religions though don't you think? I could just as easily nitpick an atheist if he was to write a 1000 or so page book about his beliefs on various aspects of life(not that i care to). I think most religious people feel the same way about the abuses of religion. The problem with these anti religious arguments is that most of them refute arguments of religious radicals. Those radicals represent a small minority however they seem to be the face of religious communities

[darkblade190]

And even if you're a moderate religious person, your basking in voluntary ignorance isn't furthering the goals of humanity. By claiming "god" did it you are not establishing the true causes of phenomenon, and cannot control those forces to decrease suffering.  That is a major problem with religion.

[darkblade190]

Because religions carry other values that are not universal, and the in-group out-group mechanics cause a disconnect between the people. The problem atheists have with religion is commonly used to suppress, control, kill, manipulate one another with absolutely no evidence. The normal inhibitions against violence (if I hurt them, they'll hurt me) are moot because religion teaches followers that they will be rewarded for their faith killings.