The Cult of Sophisticated Western Apologetics: A Tale of Two (or more) Deities

Apologetics, so far as I can tell, is useless to every believer except apologists. The apologist is forced by his challengers to adopt god concepts that most other believers do not; his arguments drive at and are derived from these concepts. As such, any successes they might have are not shared by the common believer.

Sorry about the quality/editing. Kinda rushed the production here... only took a year.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Apologetics
• Christian
• God
• Atheism
• Religion
• Atheist
• Theist
• Theism
• Gibberflabs
• Cosmological
• Argument
• Teleological
• Ontological
• Moral
• Apologist

[vbfl920]

Hmm....doesn't WLC typically provide Resurrection arguments in almost every single one of his debates? On top of his general theistic arguments, Craig argues for what he calls, "Mere Christianity" ie. pretty much the most reducible form of Christian Theism that the majority of Christian traditions and denominations share.

So I'm not sure why you say that apologists don't argue for the God they actually believe in.

[RobTheMonk8]

@vbfl920

I don't think I said it exactly like that. I think I said they provide a collection of arguments none of which argues simultaneously for the complex of ideas required to be an argument for the whole of "God" nor any argument which binds these disparate arguments to one another.

His resurrection "arguments" appear to be little more than special pleading, as his god is not the only one resurrected, nor does make one god. Moreover, ignoring these, how does it address unity and identity?

[PaperNun]

Good to see you back Rob.

[Creedonator]

As a Christian, I pretty much agree with everything in here. I've always seen most apologists as basically little boys playing games and getting men of weak faith to pay them for it. It's absurd and it has absolutely nothing to do with the tradition of the Church. No man who will honestly try to make rational arguments for God is truly religious.

[TheLovesoul1]

religion is all bullshit!

[insidetrip101]

@RobTheMonk8

"That's fine, but many christians and apologists do."

I cited Aquinas, Augustine, and Anselm. I think they all provide new insights into Christianity for their time. They are not merely rhetoricians unless you have an ideological bias.

"They think that christian apologetics is actually making the case for common christianity"

After studying medieval political philosophy (including Muslim and Jewish philosophers) I'm convinced there is on "common" religion about anything.

[RobTheMonk8]

@insidetrip101 That's fine, but many christians and apologists do. They think that christian apologetics is actually making the case for common christianity; they think their work has something to do with the bible and its god. That at the end of one of WLC's books, their faith has actually been affirmed: they're mistaken.

[insidetrip101]

@RobTheMonk8

If you didn't think that new understanding or perspectives into Christianity betrays the foundations of Christianity it seems we are arguing over different subjects.

That said, I really don't like any comparison to law. Mostly because of the obvious use of rhetoric. We can't compare philosophy to a trial. The whole point of philosophy is to get away from that mindset.

With that said, I never once held the opinion that you are trying to dispel in that analogy.

[RobTheMonk8]

@insidetrip101

Never said it was a betrayal; never said they couldn't participate in dialectic (argument aimed at truth rather than persuasion)

Imagine a lawyer is defending a person accused of murder and secures his release. Authorities find another suspect: does it make sense for him to claim, "But that lawyer proved my innocence as well!" The fact that SOMETHING has been defended doesn't mean EVERYTHING has been defended. Same is true of the apologist's god vs. the common believer's god.

[RobTheMonk8]

@SisyphusRedeemed

I'm a product of the California public education system... you should hear mispronouncing in Spanish.

[insidetrip101]

@RobTheMonk8

"then you need to be defending THAT god."

Or maybe you could come to a better understanding of THAT God. Rhetoricians try to defend their position, philosophers want to answer questions and solve intellectual problems. There is always more than one way to solve a problematic answer. You can understand your own position in a new light, or you can ditch your position all together. Why is coming to a more sophisticated understanding of God a betrayal of Christianity?

[SisyphusRedeemed]

Great vid, Rob. One nit picking thing, though: the word 'myriad' is pronounced 'Meer-y-ad', not 'My-rad.'