Greg Boyd - Thoughts on Eternal Punishment, Part 2

In his sermon on January 11, 2009, pastor Greg Boyd questions a Christian tradition in which those destined for Hell will suffer torture and punishment throughout eternity. Boyd believes another early Church tradition teaching on Hell, though not as commonly accepted, is solidly backed by Scripture. Part 2 of 3. The full sermon can be viewed or heard at: http://www.whchurch.org/content/page_910.htm. Greg Boyd recommends The Conditionalist Faith of Our Fathers by LeRoy Edwin Froom for additional reading.

Category:

Nonprofits & Activism

Tags:

• Greg Boyd
• Woodland Hills Church
• Jesus
• Christianity
• Hell

[tainorebelde1]

Hey bud.... I want you to do a grammatical check on the word "punishment" in Matthew 25: 46 in the Greek and compare it to 1John 4: 18.

I think it will do a lot of good to this discussion.

[deepcoffee]

@tainorebelde1 Yes, an interesting comparison. In 1 John 4:18 (NRSV, the Harper Study Bible in my case), the notes suggest "dread" is the the sense being communicated by the use of the word "fear." The fear or dread of a "punishment." And certainly when the same Greek word for punishment is used in Matthew 25:46, it's "eternal." I see how you can use it your way. I also see Greg's point. Whether you're suffering or extinguished, either consequence is permanent. A permanent judgment here.

[deepcoffee]

@tainorebelde1 On a tangent, I'm also looking over Mark 9.48. And the phrase, "where the worm never dies" seems to be idiomatic-referring to worms that eat decomposing bodies in the grave. Same with "the fire is never quenched." Yes, you can take it your way, as MANY Christians do. But idiomatically, it communicates a judgment that is permanent. There's no 2nd chance beyond THAT judgment. The point being the permanence of the judgment and not necessarily a description of the punishment.

[KingDcome11]

i love this guy!! I had always struggle to believe in a eternal hell and have asked God to tell me about it...i think this video might be an answer to my prayer :) thank you jesus

[HackerzInc]

how can hell be annilation, since annilation is a state of rest?

how can it be annilation if Christ said 'it would have been better if that person had never been born'?

open your minds annilation is not different than never being born.

Hell is a place of eternal torment, if you believe jesus you believe his words.

[alyssafaithbaer]

Very compelling....

whatthehellbook . com

[nicknchrist]

@tainorebelde1 suggestion...look up the word aion of which the word eternal is written in new testament in ALL of it's scripture references and it may help you understand it better.

[pricelesspam]

@FuroraCeltica look up the definition of perish please.

[FuroraCeltica]

@deepcoffee then he is teaching 'annihilationism', which is not biblical. The bible makes clear that those sent to hell are tormented "day and night forever and ever". You can only be tormented if you exist. Also Jesus said people in hell weep, wail and gnash your teeth. You can only do this if you exist, ergo, you are not annihilated

[tainorebelde1]

@deepcoffee --continued- but if the SOUL (which is the seat of reason and emotions) ceases to SUFFER its PUNISHMENT- then there is no such thing as ETERNAL PUNISHMENT... because if "eternal Punishment" equates the forced definition of "permanent judgment," then THAT would imply that the Righteous are not judged permanently.

Point of note: I think you might find interesting that it was the GNOSTICS who were the proponents of annihilation during the era of the Apostolic Fathers.

[tainorebelde1]

@deepcoffee --Mark 9: 48- is a repetition of Isaiah 66:22-24. Yes, the "corpses" will be rotting for eternity...an "ongoing" punishment (which Boyd objects to) is clearly stated in the text. Remember, ALL FLESH will be Resurrected- (Dan. 12:2). The "Shame and Contempt" is mirrored in Is. 66-

The greater question is whether the SOUL will SUFFER, since it is the seat of reason and emotions... Clearly Jesus is illustrating this fact in Luke 16- if not, he would be intentionally misleading us.

[tainorebelde1]

@deepcoffee -- I hear what you say about "A permanent judgement." The problem that I want you to consider about that (in my opinion: forced) interpretation, is that it implies that the Righteous are either not "judged," or that their judgment is not "permanent."

Such an idea is grammatically and literally foreign to the text.

[tainorebelde1]

@deepcoffee -- I don't think you realize the severity of the doctrine of annihilation. It is completely based upon a forced, metaphorical/allegorical interpretation of Scripture. Notice, that part of your tactic has been to literally CHANGE the literal and contextual meaning of "PUNISHMENT" for "judgment." As if ONLY the damned are to be "judged." !!! Are not the JUST to be JUDGED eternally "RIGHTEOUS?"