Hopeful or Hopeless? - Tim Conway

Download the MP3 here - http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=817092148126
Watch the sermon excerpt of this sermon here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1GgGyV8ZQc

8/17/2009 (MON)
Bible: Romans 12:12

Grace Community Church
San Antonio, Texas

I'll Be Honest
www.illbehonest.com

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[xchampx]

Is Grace Community Church (where htis is as) the Grace Community Church of John MacArthur?

[illbehonest]

@xchampx We are GCC in San Antonio, Texas, not affiliated with John MacArthur's

[veeunbound]

I am glad in Christ, may the needy find rest, glory to God our Father in heaven.

God bless you all

[XXXFirebird76XXX]

@s3tione

What Craig is suggesting is that is it logical to think that a certain kind of power exists that meets the criteria for creating something out of nothing. That power would need to have many of the same qualities as a God-like figure. There is no doubt that Christianity is based in faith, but I think Craig does a great job in pointing out that it is a reasonable belief.

[XXXFirebird76XXX]

@s3tione

I find it hard to understand how you see any evidence for your own value. It sounds like such a "man-centered universe" way of thinking. People may discover and create things, their legacy may live on in society and with their children, but all that means nothing when all those things while be lost forever in a relatively short period of time. Let's say God doesn't exist. What makes you more important than a dog?

[s3tione]

@XXXFirebird76XXX Non-existence is certainly more probable than existence. Therefore I feel fortunate. Many people discover and create many things, some of art some of practical value, but when they die, they cannot take these things with them. However, their legacy lives on via society and their children; Immortality sounds great, but that doesn't make it real. Atheism is not a belief (or a non-belief) or a faith, its a conclusion one reaches from the absence of any evidence of the divine.

[s3tione]

@XXXFirebird76XXX Yes, Craig's arguments are based on logic, but they only work within a Christian framework. Let me explain. Take the Kalam argument again. The Universe appears to have had a beginning, and since the universe cannot create itself, it must have had a cause outside of time and space. To avoid an infinite regress, God is introduced. Yet, we know almost nothing about the origins of the universe. To say God is responsible is premature; Craig makes a fatal assumption.

[XXXFirebird76XXX]

@s3tione

I couldn't disagree more. I believe his logic is sound because Craig's arguments are based on logic. Perhaps you think he is trying to prove the existence of God, but I don't believe that Craig talks about proving God's existence, but rather evidence for reasons to believe in God and pointing out that there is no good reason to believe that Atheism is true.

[XXXFirebird76XXX]

@s3tione

You say you have a few short decades to live and will have been fortunate to have been in a position to learn and see stounding things. But, upon your death, what makes those things worth anything? The information you speak of obtaining while alive will be gone forever when you are dead. Death is final for you. Where do you get this idea that you will be fortunate? I often feel that Atheists think in a way that gives them value, but I see no evidence for that belief on their part.

[s3tione]

@XXXFirebird76XXX As far as me being a thing, well, I do think of myself as a sentient being which is capable of observing and in a small way affecting the universe around me. Yes, the human life-span is short, and in a few short decades, I will cease to exist, but I will have been fortunate to have been in a position to learn and see some very astounding things. Unfortunately, simply believing in eternal life doesn't make it real.