Jehovah's Witnesses The Cross or a torture stake, Misleading Watchtower evidence

A look at how the Watchtower has given evidence in the KIT, supposedly supporting their argument that Jesus was crucified on a torture stake rather than the Cross, that is purposefully misleading, if not purposefully deceitful.

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People & Blogs

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• Jehovah's Witness
• Watchtower
• torture stake
• cross
• Justus Lipsius

[EdM021]

Ancient epigraphy indicates that Romans executed people on a jerry-rigged frame that was a combination of a cross (mast or "T") *and* a torture stake! You probalby don't know how the crucified was tortured to death but I'll give you this: it was cruel & unusual, and shameful & perverted.

PS Jehovah's Witnesses who came up with their torture stake warped the definition of "to impale." They changed the obvious to microimpalement, with nails.

[YearningForHonesty]

@jwpublisher1 If you tell me Jesus was worshiped, you're also telling me that priests and angels were worshiped, which we both know wasn't the case.

On me being biased, I try to be as unbiased as I possibly can. I'm looking for truth, not for confirmation of the Jehovah's Witnesses believes.

Is it not you who is being biased?

PS, in case whatever I have said might offend you, I didn't have the intention to do so.

[YearningForHonesty]

@jwpublisher1 The words that suggest worship are never ever used for Jesus, just for God. So when the word "proskyneo" is used for God, it only makes sense to translate it into the word "worship". From a grammatical perspective some people say that the word "proskyneo" should never have been translated into the word "worship" at all, but from a logical perspective in a way it makes sense, the word "proskyneo" means worship when applied to God.

[YearningForHonesty]

@jwpublisher1 It's not biased, it's logical, because the word does NOT necessarily refer to the word worship. It CAN be used for the word "worship", but there are words that have a much more direct meaning towards the word worship.

If it would mean worship, then the bible contradicts itself, because that word is also used for priests, angels and some others. So it is only logical to say that the word that barely indicates the word "worship" to be translated otherwise.

[jwpublisher1]

@YearningForHonesty Look in the KIT, it's a Watchtower publication, it shows the NWT next to the original Greek scriptures. You will see that the Greek word προσκυνώ, is translated obiesense when referring to Jesus and worship when referring to all others. Doesn't take a scholar to see the bias when the exact same Greek word is translated one way for Jesus and another way when referring to all others. The Watchtower now regrets printing the KIT, by the way.

[Fizzypop1211]

@Fizzypop1211 and re the whole Greek argument going below, I don't study Greek, but I have been told by those that do that the context (surrounding words and construction of words) around a word can alter the meaning. Not always like from black now means white, but more subtly, nuance etc. Which is why I was advised not to simply word by word translate without regard (knowledge) of the context and language. I guess a modern example is wacking phrases into google translate - it alters completely

[Fizzypop1211]

Not sure that a contrary view is deception necessarily. Afterall, it's not as if refs are hidden or unavailable and (having identified the source), it's not as if the WT or indeed anyone would quote an entire piece when the main point they are trying to convey is only part of that piece. The item you refer to opens up the whole subject from "cross only" to "not necessarily" - and then, "further, we believe..." The WT have always provided source material, JWs are mercilessly told study, research.

[jwpublisher1]

@YearningForHonesty I really don't think you WANT to know the truth, especially when you use words like "probably", "seems to make sense", etc. Go ahead and IGNORE the truth, don't look at the original Greek for yourself, just accept what you have been told. By the way your original leaders believed in worshipping Jesus, Russell, Rutheford, Knorr, and it was even in the JW charter until 1999. jwfacts.com/watchtower/worship­-jesus.php

[YearningForHonesty]

@jwpublisher1 I don't see how the translation is biased when it seems to make sense when comparing to the original meaning of the words.

The word προσκυνώ has probably changed into the word worship over time considering that I know for a fact that the word originally had a different meaning.

If the word proskyneo actually meant "worship", it would be a great contradiction, because the word is also applied to humans and angels.

[YearningForHonesty]

@jwpublisher1 Greek in the first century and Greek now are 2 completely different things. My information comes from people who have studiedand researched Greek. From biblical scholars and what not. It's not information forged by the watchtower society.

PS, I'm not a Jehovah's Witness.