Part 10 of 32 Senate Judiciary Committee with Alberto Gonzales. Senator Dianne Feinstein questions Gonzales. 7/24/07
KEEP IN MIND: Gonzales was given each and every question he would be asked beforehand. Nothing was a surprise - there was absolutely NO "GOTCHA!"
Transcript of this portion of the hearing:
FEINSTEIN: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Attorney General, I've sat here and listened particularly to the opening comment of the chairman and the ranking member, and in my time in the Senate, I have never heard comments quite like that coming from both sides of the aisle. And then I listened to your response, which was nonresponsive which went into something about FISA, unrelated to anything that had been said.
I don't think you understand what's happening in the Department of Justice, the diminution of credibility, integrity. It's almost as if the walls were actually crumbling on this huge department.
FEINSTEIN: And I listen to you. And nothing gets answered directly. Everything is obfuscated.
You can't tell me that you went up to see Mr. Comey for any other reason other than to reverse his decision about the terrorist surveillance program. That's clearly the only reason you would go to see the attorney general in intensive care.
GONZALES: May I respond to that?
FEINSTEIN: Yes, you may.
GONZALES: OK. You're right. This is an extraordinary event. But we were confronting extraordinary circumstances where we had been advised that something that the department had authorized for two years, they would no longer continue to approve.
We'd just been advised by the congressional leadership: Go forward anyway. And we felt it important that the attorney general, General Ashcroft, was aware of those facts.
Clearly, if we had been confident and understood the facts and was inclined to do so, yes, we would have asked him to reverse the DAG's position. But...
FEINSTEIN: Well, then, why would he have said Mr. Comey is in charge, if you hadn't asked him?
GONZALES: I don't understand the question.
FEINSTEIN: Well, clearly you asked him the question, because James Comey testified to us that...
GONZALES: My recollection, Senator, is -- and, of course, this happened some time ago and people's recollections are going to differ. My recollection is that Mr. Ashcroft did most of the talking. At the end, my recollection is, he said, "I've been told it would be improvident for me to sign. But that doesn't matter, because I'm no longer the attorney general."
FEINSTEIN: OK. All right.
GONZALES: And once he said that, Secretary Card and I didn't press him. We said thank you, and we left.
FEINSTEIN: OK.
GONZALES: But, again, we went there because we thought it important for him to know where the congressional leadership was on this. We didn't know whether or not he knew of Mr. Comey's position and, if he did know, whether or not he agreed with it.
FEINSTEIN: All right. I think we've taken care of this.
What I'd like to establish, once and for all, is who put the names on the list to fire what are now nine U.S. attorneys.
Since you were here last, we've had a number of your top staff appear before us. Kyle Sampson, your former chief of staff, said, "I was the aggregator of input that came in from different sources."
Paul McNulty said it was presented to me as here is the idea and here are the names of individuals that are being identified.
Jim Comey said, "I was not aware there was any kind of process going on."
FEINSTEIN: Bill Mercer said, "I didn't understand there was a list. I didn't keep a list."
Mike Battle: "A decision was made to compile a list. It was made by someone. I had no input. Nobody asked for my input."
Will Moschella: "Since I was not part of that process, I don't have firsthand knowledge."
Mike Ellston: "Kyle asked me to give him my thoughts, give him a draft list. I said, sure. I didn't actually do it. I was very busy."
Who approved those names?
GONZALES: I ultimately approved the list of recommendations that were submitted to me. I accept responsibility.
FEINSTEIN: And how many names did you approve for firing?
GONZALES: I think, on the list that was presented...
FEINSTEIN: Oh, no -- total. How many names have you approved for firing?
GONZALES: You mean total, for cause, not for cause?
I'd have to get back to you on that.
FEINSTEIN: There were seven on December 7.
GONZALES: Seven on December 7.
FEINSTEIN: We're now up to nine that we know about. How many -- this is important -- how many U.S. attorneys did you approve to be summarily fired?
GONZALES: Senator, there may have been others. I would be happy to get back to you with that kind of information about who has left. But I don't know the answer to your question. But I can certainly find out.
FEINSTEIN: You don't know, after all we've been through, the hearing after hearing after hearing?
GONZALES: Well, in connection with this review process that Mr. Sampson was coordinating, what was presented to me was a list of seven individuals, on December 7. And so those are the seven that I accepted the recommendation to ask for resignation.
FEINSTEIN: That's right. But those were the ones that were called on December 7 and told to leave by January 15.
GONZALES: Yes.
FEINSTEIN: There were others also asked to resign.
GONZALES: Yes.
FEINSTEIN: And I'm asking what the total number were.
GONZALES: Well, certainly, Mr. Cummins was asked to leave. Mr. Graves was asked to leave. I'm not aware, sitting here today, of any other U.S. attorney who was asked to leave, except there were some instances where people were asked to leave, quite frankly, because there was legitimate cause.
FEINSTEIN: So you're saying these were asked to leave because the cause was not legitimate?
GONZALES: I'm not saying -- no, what I'm saying is wrongdoing, misconduct. There may been some -- in fact, I'm sure there were others...
FEINSTEIN: What kind of misconduct?
GONZALES: Well, for -- and I'm not suggesting any of this conduct happened, but, for example, an inappropriate relationship, taking action where you have a direct conflict of interest, to help out a buddy, making a -- you know, those kinds of -- something like that, I would say, would constitute misconduct. And there...
FEINSTEIN: Were those specific things involved in any U.S. attorney that was terminated?
LEAHY: Good question.
GONZALES: No. With respect to the seven and with respect to Mr. Cummins and with respect to Mr. Graves, I am not aware that -- certainly, it wasn't, in my mind, a problem or basis to accept the recommendation that they be asked to leave.
FEINSTEIN: All right. Let me go to something else. You, of course, recognize these books, "The Federal Prosecution of Election Offenses." In prior hearings, we had the 1995 edition.
FEINSTEIN: Since May of this year, there is now a new edition. I'd like to read to you what has been dropped from the earlier edition.
The first thing that's been removed is this: "The Justice Department generally does not favor prosecution of isolated fraudulent voting transactions. This is based in part on constitutional issues that arise when federal jurisdiction is asserted in matters having only a minimal impact on the integrity of the voting process." This was removed in this new edition.
The second thing: "The Justice Department must refrain from any conduct which has the possibility of affecting the election itself." This is weakened on page 92. This language is removed. "Federal prosecutors and investigators should be extremely careful to not conduct overt investigations during the pre-election period of while the election is under way." Removed.
Then a sentence that's underlined in the '95 edition, which states thus: "Most, if not all, investigations of an alleged election crime must await the end of the election to which the allegation relates." It was removed in this new edition.
Weakened was this language: "It should also be kept in mind that any investigation undertaken during the final stages of a political contest may cause the investigation itself to become a campaign issue."
Why was it necessary to remove this language in this new edition in the Federal Prosecution of Election Offenses rules?
GONZALES: Senator, I don't -- sitting here today, I don't know the answer to that question. I would like to find out, because I am certainly committed to ensuring that we're smart in the way that we do investigations and prosecutions and we do in a way that doesn't intimidate voters, that doesn't chill potential voters from coming out and voting on Election Day.
So I would like the opportunity to look into this and respond back to you.
FEINSTEIN: Appreciate it. It becomes more relevant because two and possibly three of the fired U.S. attorneys were fired because they didn't bring those small cases that might affect an election.
And therefore, when one looks at this book now, sees a new book coming out in May '07 that deletes the very things that these U.S. attorneys were told to follow, something's rotten in Denmark.
GONZALES: Thank you for the opportunity for me to look into that.
FEINSTEIN: I appreciate that.
Thank you very much. My time is up.
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Off with his head!
usergently 1 year ago
@SerpienteDK: Feinstein got his Shakespeare mixed up. The original quote is 'There's something rotten in the state of Denmark. Try reading Hamlet, you might enjoy it!
fearnoevilexceptbush 2 years ago
There is no fu*kn way i can deal with this man and his bulls*it answers omfg...i would have lost it and used my power to my fullest extent to deal with this guys bullshit. Congress needs more power at times like this, dodging questions my ass..
princekuja 2 years ago
As In My Time As A Virtual Judge, I never seen 7 gluttonous genocides and 7 holocausts against me still succeeding worldwide. You cant stop me, your all under arrest, proven worldwide.
Systole101 2 years ago
For the ones who are not frozen.
The truth is compelled and they are frozen.
To the allrising truthfulness.
Systole101 3 years ago
blablabla
Systole101 3 years ago
Dianne Feinstein is a very competent Senator. Her questioning style reminds me of Arlen Specter's. They don't get worked up and emotional and upset. They stay precise, rational and effective. That's something you have to respect -- Democrat or Republican.
heyitshoff 3 years ago 2
Swiss aren't Scandanavians.
gpromeo54 3 years ago
shes not in the interests of young people, oldster
leave the future to us, old folx have not done the planet any favors
gabecollett 4 years ago
It means that someone forgot to taxe out the garbage in Copehagen
you can have rove too, since Norway doesnt want him and neither do we
oh well, to be honest Danes are my favorite Scandenevians, nicer than Swiss, those people are prix
gabecollett 4 years ago