Arminian Minute: John Piper squares off against Irenaeus

Tune in and watch as I compare a view of John Piper's to that of second century Christian leader, Irenaeus

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People & Blogs

Tags:

• Calvinism
• Calvin
• Arminianism
• Arminian
• John Piper
• God
• Bible
• Scripture

[icepac15]

What's the name of the song at the end?

[ThePristineFaith]

@icepac15 It's NBC's Wimbledon (tennis) music.

[jrocc77]

I think this is all very bad. Arminians bagging Calvinists and Calvinists doing the same. No one in any of these forums know all there is about both points of view, including Piper, some may be wrong, others may be right, but there is no reason to use an attitude that puts other people down.

Please, everyone remember to keep an open mind when studying these issues, and please remember that we are all believers and followers of Christ, so let us try build each other up in faith. Thank you.

[ThePristineFaith]

@jrocc77 No one is being put down. To defend the character of God as revealed in Scripture is a quite honorable endeavor.

[theearstohear]

Piper's Calvinism is fraught with insurmountable difficulties. While I don't agree with the Arminian lines of argument that I have read here (admittedly not all), I would say that Piper, along with most Calvinists, unnecessarily conjoin SOVEREIGNTY with PREDESTINATION. S is dominion; P is an act. S is authority, P is acting with authority. God did not absolutely predestinate all things, but he is sovereign over all things. Sin is man's fault (Rom 5:12,19), not God's.

[jsagers2008]

I liked the the Irenaeus quote at the end. I had a fling with Calvinism until I read what the early church believed on free will and predestination. If the early church believed in free will it should be a red flag to anyone considering Calvinism.

[NB3K]

@ThePristineFaith God does not need defending. The problem is we cannot comprehend God's ways.

Also what do you think that God owes to men? All mankind are condmened in Adam before His throne of justice. If God will have mercy on man than in order for that mercy to be mercy or grace to be grace, than it needs to be free and gratuitous and not from any thing owed or otherwise Grace would no longer be grace but debt.

[NB3K]

@ThePristineFaith God does not need defending. The problem is we cannot comprehend God's ways.

[rkg62976]

Basic mistake in synergistic (Arminian) thought:

1) They don't have a proper definition of "responsibility" ("accountability");

2) They believe that "free will" is a prerequisite of responsibility. It most assuredly is NOT!; and,

3) They constantly, but consistently, confuse imperative statements with indicative ones (of course, Martin Luther corrected this major blunder on Erasmus' part long ago in "The Bondage of the Will"). In other words: 'ought' does NOT imply 'ability'.

[Strefanasha]

calvinists do not understand the ABSOLUE SOVEREIGNTY of God. they make him a heavy handed control freak after the order of the kings of europe in the 16 and 17 century. they do not understand the depth of His mastery which can maintain utter sovereignty while endowing his creatures (us) with free will.

why the rigid thinking of calvinsts etc who refuse to accept that this one resolves to a paradox, like the rest

I am glad Irenaeus followed scripture here. he did nothing more than his duty

[Wunji1]

In other words, God is powerful enough to create autonomy outside of Himself. If God is not able to create autonomy, then He is not God. This is not akin to the age old question of God being able to "create a rock so big that He cannot move it". Further, He certainly goes overboard to communicate this truth not only in His word, but in life as well. When a natural father (even in animals) has a son, he is created autonomous of the father. Yet, from the Calvinist, it all gets obfuscated...

[Wunji1]

In the end, the "sovereignty of God" that Calvinists appear to be defending is actually turned on its head. God is not sovereign enough to create free will because that would somehow mean that it would be out of His control, and thus He could not be sovereign. The truth is, that God is so powerful that our free will is not an affront to His sovereignty, but rather a manifestation of it. It proves His power more to be able to create beings that are not under His direct control.

[Wunji1]

Calvinism is nigh unto another gospel - period. What is inherent in the gospel is the freedom to choose it, otherwise it is not "good news to all men" at all, but merely a vitiated offering for the sins of a few. The problem with Calvinism is that at every turn it violates reason - i.e. "all" ceases to be "all"; "world" ceases to mean the whole "world"; "free will" does not exist; "God" is arbitrary in his choices; and the list goes on and on...