Title-Introduction, read by Stephanie Murphy in the Markets Not Capitalism Audiobook, Autonomedia

I actually put the time to have pictures go side by side with stuff Stephanie is paying attention to so there's a *bit* of a reason to actually pay attention to the video. But really this project is just about making the LL message more accessible and open for ALL to here.

You can find the audiobook here (and can donate to Stephanie!):

http://www.porctherapy.com/audiobooks...

You can find the PDF here:

http://radgeek.com/gt/2011/10/Markets...

IMPORTANT:

William Gillis, a contributor to both C4SS and MNC needs you to show some solidarity with some comrades of his!

Via his FB profile on 9/22/12:

"This morning my best friend's house burnt down. Kyle Burris, his sister Cecilia Borealis and the rest of their punk house are homeless. They've lost virtually everything. (I lost 95% of my textbooks, notes & paperwork, which were being stored in their attic.) I've known Kyle for well over a decade and he's unquestionably one of the sweetest people in the world. He's an anarchist, a mutualist, a union organizer, and one of the very few born and raised working class portlanders in the radical scene. Unfortunately, being poor, sweet, quiet & shy, he has relatively nothing in the way of a safety net, financially or socially. Both his partner and myself are hundreds of miles away. I can think of few more deserving of support from the radical community."

DONATE HERE:

https://www.wepay.com/donations/emerg...

• Category

  Education

[So0h]

5:35

[ALLtowardliberty]

Also, I look forward to your response. I'll be a bit busy today but hopefully I'll be able to get to it sometime today or tomorrow.

-Nick

[ALLtowardliberty]

Well no, I think our differences can be (and in some cases certainly are) much more pronounced than that. You seem to think there's only a difference in *what* a freed society would look like to both of us when I'm suggesting that what either of us mean *by* freedom isn't wholly the same. They share some similarities in some ways perhaps but based on what I've said I think it's clear we're not as thinly divided as you think we are.

Which isnt to say there's a chasm between us either.

-Nick

[Bender711]

I think the primary difference here is what we think people would do in a society free of institutionalized force fraud and coercion in the form of the state. I do agree with you that in a free society the size of companies would likely be much smaller than it is now. summing up the sides: Ancaps think freemarkets would order along lines roughly similar to now and MA's think they would become more decentralized and local? is that your position? I'll respond more fully tomorrow.

[ALLtowardliberty]

Or that the sort of systems of interrelations it'd perpetuate wouldn't be opposed through non-violent social activism based on community organizing and the tactics and values of solidarity, mutual aid and direct action.

Anyways, I think I've gone on enough.

I don't think the ALL are (for the most part) some sort of an-caps. And if any of the ALL people are I think they're most likely taking steps backwards, not forwards.

-Nick

[ALLtowardliberty]

I think some ALL people make the mistake of thinking property IS liberty to some extent (thus being propertarians to some degree) but I don't think that's the opinion (or should be) on the whole. Liberty comes from ourselves and our actions and the institutions around us and what ethical codes we live by, all of which determines how property is used. Property isn't any innate good, even if done on a private basis.

Others may be "free" to contract foolishly but that doesn't mean it's encouraged.

[ALLtowardliberty]

...is based on property first and not liberty. ALL: styled market anarchists are much more skeptical of property relations and claims, at least in terms of the modern economy than the anarcho-capitalists typically are (again, a bit of a generalization, but I think my basic point is true enough).

And again that happens through general skepticism of hierarchy, a minimization (if not abolition through alternatives and cooperation) of rent, interest and other things.

[ALLtowardliberty]

"...a fully voluntary system in which people can own property and are free to trade that property with others."

But of course, what one identifies as voluntary and what one does not can differ. ALL styled market anarchists don't see many of the institutions an-caps take for granted as wholly voluntary either here in the now and some of us even in the future. Not only that but we have different takes on property (at least some of us do).

No, propertarianism is an ideology based... (cont.)

[Bender711]

The differences between what this video is describing and what I define as capitalism seem superficial at best. What I define as a AnCap is a fully voluntary system in which people can own property and are free to trade that property with others. There is no institution with the power to initiate force against others such as the state.

We appear to both be propertarian anarchists. Past that the differences are aesthetic. Even if you don't like rent or wages others are free to contract them.

[ALLtowardliberty]

Sorry Bender. Upon a quick reflection perhaps it would've been better for me to start off with asking you why you thought that instead of listing a hodgepodge of opinions that ALL styled market anarchists and anarcho-capitalists may/may not hold that may/may not differentiate them.

If you'd still like to explain your position I'd *very* much like to hear it and I apologize if I made it sound otherwise!

-Nick