The Miracle of the Resurrection: The Hallucination Theory

Debate- http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=113757

Category:

Education

Tags:

• jesus
• resurrection
• hallucination
• kabane52
• kabanethechristian
• hamandcheese
• god
• satan
• evil
• good
• tehknologik
• migkillertwo

[riffMaster8686]

Can you watch part one of Zeitgeist and refute it please??

[KabaneTheChristian]

If you honestly think it is irrefutable, you're stupid. I used to have a five-part refutation of it posted up here but the sound got corrupted unfortunately. I might redo it sometime.

[dw44119]

The gospels describe Jesus resurrecting Lazarus from the dead. Were they lying? If you answer "no", then you can't argue that resurrection was unthinkable to the disciples.

With regards to your general belief that anything written by an eyewitness is de facto true, you need to develop better critical thinking skills.

No matter the source, testimony is not sufficient to establish a miracle unless the testimony being a lie would consitute a larger miracle than the miracle being attested.

[KabaneTheChristian]

Awful argument. Lazarus' resurrection was conceptually different than Jesus'. Jesus rose in the transformed resurrection body, and was viewed as the firstfruits of the general resurrection. The resurrection body is immortal and cannot die. Lazarus' body was still mortal, it was more akin to a resuscitation.

[dw44119]

So...it is unthinkable to them that Jesus could be resurrected because they viewed his resurrection as the firstfruits of the general resurrection. Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks for demostrating how to properly construct an argument.

Here I was, trying to construct an argument linearly. Turns out that they're supposed to be circular. My bad.

Oh, and kudos on being able to read the minds of people who lived 2,000 years ago to know how they viewed things. That's a pretty cool super power.

[KabaneTheChristian]

Because his resurrection was not the same type of "resurrection" as the others.

Show how I was being circular. Show where the premise and conclusion are identical..

It's actually just contextualizing an ancient text and deriving stuff from that.

[Tobytrim]

Hey Tommy! .....Ever had a girlfriend - Lol!!

[drfoxcourt]

It does not matter what the claim is. the danger of christianity is illogical and is used to stop critical thinking, scientific investigation, and particularly evolution.

I like Kabane's stuff, but if I'm to rely on his faith in the bible vs science, I'll take the science. The faith thing hasn't anything beyond helping my toddler mind to act morally. Science has helped me far more.

[LuvPeaceUnitySiberia]

the best haircut out of all the vids :D

[eatmygritsnow]

just because jesus has a new body doesn't mean he looks different, for all we know it could have been the exact same thing except a little less scared from the crucifiction.

[nolobede]

Bible, the Fox news of history.

[kris01987]

500 people don't hallucinate the same thing.

[SeenAndNotSeen]

As I've said before, there is just too little evidence to draw any conclusions, positive or negative.

[SeenAndNotSeen]

Likewise, the fact that they mistook Jesus for some stranger, or a gardener, strongly suggests a mistaken identity.

If the women had mistakenly identified a gardener as "Jesus," then told the disciples, then that right there is how the disciples got the idea that Jesus may have resurrected. Even though they didn't believe it, they got the idea.

You also assume that the women told the disciples about seeing an angel (or two), rather than just two men in white, as Luke said.

[SeenAndNotSeen]

The idea that the disciples did not understand Jesus's prophecy about rising on the third day is inconsistent, considering that in Matthew, the Sanhedrin somehow understand perfectly well that Jesus intends to rise on the third day, yet the disciples are supposedly clueless.

The fact that in Matthew, "some doubted" lends credibility to the idea that it was a hallucination. They didn't believe what they were seeing. And that's assuming that the appearances were to everyone at once.

[SeenAndNotSeen]

You assume WAY too much in this video. You assume that the authors' spin of the story is 100% accurate, and then draw all of your conclusions from that. Obviously, you are therefore going to conclude that the resurrection appearances weren't hallucinations.

Using this same logic, you could conclude that all of Jesus's miracles were real, since the Bible says they were witnessed by many people, who couldn't all have hallucinated.