Presumption of Atheism Project-1.wmv

To the extent that 'reason' is an art, its value in resolving ultimate issues is diminished. Atheism is a reaction to Theism and Theism is a symptom of awe and wonder or else fear.

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[s3rpic0]

only simpletons believe the same way that they hunger and thirst.

[MarkLucasTube]

You appear to be suggesting that "simpletons" are in a minority and that you, along with a majority of others, have 'chosen' to believe what you believe. Is this what you are really saying?

[s3rpic0]

I'm simply saying that rational human beings can be swayed by intelligent arguments, and often are.

I'm not really interested in debating the whole distinction you're raising "choosing" and "being unable to help" your beliefs, but I strongly disagree with your dismissal of argumentation, as well as your claims that argumentation cannot change beliefs.

[MarkLucasTube]

Thanks for the clarification. I do not disagree with you at all. My video does say that "argumentation just won't cut it". Your objection is correct. What I meant was that people who are religiously brainwashed will not hear reason. I should redo the video. But I firmly maintain that all belief is involuntary. Argumentation is an 'experience' that can certainly change a person's beliefs but not because of any volition on their part other than to consider the arguments.

[Enterascertainment]

Very true. The problems seem to come when one goes about forcing others into a paradigm. Proceeding by way of presumed devine right and/or moving beyond freedom and dignity to a form of forced social engineering. The fundamental underpinnings are identically ridiculous and there doesn't seem to be much evidence that it will stop on either side.

[s3rpic0]

It had seemed to me that you were dismissing arguing as a productive way of swaying beliefs, but sorry if I jumped to conclusions. I am hesitant to agree with your point that belief is involuntary, although ideally it certainly should be, but what do you say about people that delude themselves because they cannot handle certain truths, despite having the facts and mental facilities to draw conclusions?

[Eikinkloster]

@greenelf12 then my new found faith started to wane, and I sought the "New Atheists" for reassurance.

[Eikinkloster]

@greenelf12 well said. But the people fence sitting might.

It seems to me though that the debate functions as a catalyst for people who've just lost faith. They are seeking a new paradigm of thought, and find it on Harris, Dawkins and Hitchens.

My personal case is a bit unusual. I was raised an Atheist, from a Communist father. At some point I felt the need for a personal myth, and sought religion under this guise. It even worked for some years, I had something like faith.

[justbekindtooall]

@greenelf12 lol you saw through me..

I hope you are well and happy

[greenelf12]

people who haven't been giving it too much thought are unlikly to watch the "debate" in the first place.