El Gran Senor ~ 1984 Derby Epsom.AVI

Odds on favourite El Gran Senor gets pipped at the post by Secreto after cruising to what seemed an easy victory at 2 furlongs in the 1984 Derby. Pat Eddery was blamed for the loss by many as El Gran Senor went on to prove his stamina at 12 furlongs with a great victory in the Irish Derby 2 weeks later.

Category:

Gaming

Tags:

• El
• Gran
• Senor
• Derby
• Epsom
• 1984

[Splitscreen83]

But easily good enough to beat a class field in the Irish Derby at the same distance with a different jockey ? He certainly was no 'dodge' as you put it ?

[Splitscreen83]

Great horse and probably the blame goes to Pat Eddery.

[ThefightingCelt]

@MANUTD4LIFE171 It was Barry Brogan who made those comments - not Taaffe. Brogan actually rode Flyingbot when he moved from Dreapers yard to be trained in England - where he failed to re-capture the form he showed in Ireland. Tom Dreaper wanted to retire Flyingbolt as he didn't want to watch the horse deteriorate after his bout of brucellosis. Flyingbolt's owner disagreed and so he took him to England to Ken Olivers yard, where he remained in training. 

[ThefightingCelt]

I notice MANUTD4LIFE has went all silent. I wonder why ?! lol I think the whole world was on El Gran Senor for the Derby after his brilliant 2,000 Guineas win. People often criticise Greville Starkey (wrongly imo ) for his misjudgement on Dancing Brave but, Pat Eddery, who was a masterful jockey, made a real hash of this day. He was on the best horse by far and should have won.

[MANUTD4LIFE171]

@ThefightingCelt so your claiming Barry Brogan is lieing about a man who is dead

[ThefightingCelt]

@MANUTD4LIFE171 Barry Brogan is not Pat Taaffe. I have written as well as filmed evidence of Taaffe being interviewed. In all, he states emphatically that Arkle was the best horse he ever rode and was " in no doubt" that Arkle would have beaten Flyingbolt. Taaffe also said that Arkle had a superb  temperament, whereas Flyingbolt was extremely bad tempered and fractious.

[MANUTD4LIFE171]

@ThefightingCelt "In my view Flyingbolt was probably the best horse I ever rode - even better than Arkle. I honestly believe that he would have beaten Arkle in the 1966 Gold Cup if Tom Dreaper had allowed him to run."

In a subsequent interview with the Racing Post in December 2008, more than 25 years after the publication of his autobiography he confirmed his views

"For all Arkle's brilliance, I felt Flyingbolt was the better horse. If Pat Taaffe was alive, he'd tell you the same."

[MANUTD4LIFE171]

@ThefightingCelt You ar definately wrong on this one Barry Brogan who was a rider for draper back then and a close friend of pat taffe has always maintained flyingbolt was better and he has claimed pat taffe told him flying bolt was the same here are a few quotes from interviews the racing post had with Barry Brogan, they will follow in my next post

[ThefightingCelt]

@MANUTD4LIFE171 I have to disagree. Flyingbolt was a very exciting and classy horse but Arkle was better. Don't take my word on it. Pat Taaffe, who rode both, was asked who he thought would have won had they been allowed to run against each another. He said that if they had raced at 3m or over, he was confident that Arkle would always finish in front of Flyingbolt - Taaffe said " Arkle would have sat behind him and then would beaten him for speed every time."

[MANUTD4LIFE171]

@ThefightingCelt cottage rake did run in the late 40s also before you pick me up on that :)

[MANUTD4LIFE171]

@ThefightingCelt Well Timeform began on the jumps in the 60s anyways as there are no ratings for the likes of 3 time gold cup winner cottage rake who ran in the 50s, yes Arkle was a great horse but i still think Flyingbolt would have beat him if he had been given the opportunity to race him

[ThefightingCelt]

@MANUTD4LIFE171 No, you are wrong. Timeform started publications started in 1948 in Yorkshire. It was the brainchild of Phil Bull, who only ever questioned on rating; that of brigadier Gerard - but he was soon convinced by Reg Griffin that he was wrong to question it. As for Arkle; whether the 212 is high or not makes little difference - he still remains head and shoulders above them all. Consider also what Sea Bird's opponents achieved after he beat them - which indicates how classy he was.