A Rabbi Tries To discover The Original Jesus Movement (3/3)

Did ALL the Apostles in Jerusalem go along with these changes?
+ Question & Answers @ the end.

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[LIQUIDFLUIDR12X]

...can I a Jew believe in Jesus and still be a Torah Observant ?

[Jews4Judaism]

@LIQUIDFLUIDR12X if believing in Jesus means that you redefine the role of the Messiah to someone who dies for your sins, the answer is no, according to the Bible you can't.

[valleart]

This is a great video with amazing information. I hope there are other videos with this Rabbi.

[SCORNDOGGMELACH]

@venom769 Im not nulifying the aspect of emmotion. Im saying that emmotion is no way to reach discernment. THE LAW IS.GODS LAW.NOT THE HEART'S. The point is there will always be a moment where a person may find emmotionally something God asks troubling him as a human being , while his friend or neighbor will accept it with gladness. The point is obedience, NOT FEEEEEELIIINGS. God requires more of the Jewish people than just love and praise. Christianity breaks off a piece & claims the whole.

[4trahasis]

@venom769 re: extra rules, I do not disagree, especially when speaking of Gentiles.

In high school, my philosophy teacher told me the reason to study ancient philosophy is that we not go over the mistakes of others, to have somewhat of a blueprint for our house of ideas. Just because they are old does not make them useless, and just because we study them does not mean we must agree 100%; there are great truths and love of the Creator within "Spiritless" law, stepping stones to greater service.

[venom769]

@4trahasis True, it's very hard to formulate an argument on here. Beyond what has been said, I think one major point of disagreement is: I believe any extra rules in religion should be made between the person and God. I am called to be "a saint" and not only can I have direct communion with God, but I can also become aware of what boundaries I need to set in my life that will personally enable me to walk my path. But I see depth of understanding and sincerity in your words which I appreciate!

[4trahasis]

@venom769 (4th post) If we do have the Holy Spirit, is it possible for us to read Law disparagingly?

I would argue that to disparage law would be to _not_ love thy neighbor; to deny the particulars of how Spirit _can_ reside in their individual, and communal, self.

Divine union is not only possible, but necessary: Law & Spirit, Justice & Grace, Creator & created.

Thanks for reading, maybe next time this should be taken to messages instead of comments? Nothing against public sharing.

Peace!

[4trahasis]

@venom769 2) My Franciscan grandmother, aging more rapidly now, lamented a week ago that there were not more rules in religion, that it's too easy to get distracted without knowing what to be doing, no matter how good her intentions.

It is evident to me that even if one has Spirit, they can still benefit by studying Law. It is not enough to simply "love thy neighbor" in one's heart (Mt 25:40-45) -- that Spirit must bear fruit, through our actions, in this world, even between two strangers. ...

[4trahasis]

@venom769 (cont) and have it retain, this does not mean one should be withholding with one's water, even if all the other has are porous hands which will spill much to the ground. An issue here is not just with the words shared, but the recipients trying to follow them without attaining the state behind them, i.e. their hands are occupied with other things (they do not sell their goods and follow Spirit, do not yoke their chamor/chomer, donkey/material, in service to Spirit); uncultivated. ...

[4trahasis]

@venom769 Thanks for your response, honesty, and kindness - if only all followers of Yeshua (so-called) would behave as you.

Two things: 1) Even if the oral Torah is not _as_ inspired by the Holy Spirit as Tanach, portions of it are quotations from men that had married with the Ruach HaKodesh (& not even all such men were on the same level, i.e. did not agree completely regarding matters). Though some are unprepared to receive Spirit, e.g. it is impossible to transfer water to a leaky vessel...

[venom769]

@4trahasis (cont) I don't believe we can regard oral law as inspired by the Holy Spirit as Tanach is. I do believe there is a different meaning in "spirit of the law" however, apart from what we're discussing now. Spirit of the law means love God and make Him first, and love neighbor as yourself. If you have that in your heart, following Him becomes natural. If we love God, we can follow Him and work out the gray areas between us and Him alone without more restrictions choking out the spirit

[venom769]

@4trahasis You raise an interesting question. For me, I grew up Catholic, and they teach that "the church" has rules from God that go beyond the Bible. With no disrespect to Catholics, the religious organization has brought in many traditions that directly go against the Bible. When I became a born again believer, a went right to the Bible. There, i discovered its Jewish roots, as well. I believe that the oral law is not inspired by the Spirit, but is man-made; I find a similarity here...